Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

[Doctorbass]

I also found the FULL DOCUMENT ABOUT TUV certification for the Sur ron!!!

Page 30+ are also interesting regarding motor tests TONS of info !!! https://www.yumpu.com/fr/document/view/63134658/surron-lightbee-coc-papiere


Doc

 

[Doctorbass]

STOCK 2021 MOTOR MEASURED SPECS:
As many of us are overpowering their motor " a bit" it is great to have a baseline as a REFERENCE of a brand new unaffected motor
Motor is new ( 87km on it on stock batt and controller:
Use these as a baseline to compare your motor if you suspect that you might have toasted it (i did not said ROASTED!) or if you find any performance loss.

Inductance and DC resistance:
Measuring these is a good way to know if the winding is burned or damaged. NOTE: the rotor position affect a bit this value so the best way is to measure the minimum and maximum and mage the average. Also these value will not be the same is your rotor is not present in the stator.

Magnet strengh:
If your motor had torque loss and spin faster(at no load) it might be that your magnets goes pass the Curi point (permament magnetic loss)

Date: 2 August 2021:

2021 motor version
p/n:11100-YQ2A-0201

Magnet strengh:
4200 +/-50 Gauss max

Motor DC resistance:

U-V 9.290 miliohms
V-W 9.509 miliohm
W-U 9.429 miliohms

Motor inductance:

U-V min:43 max:51 avg: 47uH
V-W min:44 max:52 avg: 48uH
W-U min:43 max:51 avg: 47uH

-------------------------------


Date: 2 August 2021:

**** 2018 old motor ****:
p/n:11100-YQ2A-0200

Magnet strengh:
N/A ( not measured yet )

Motor DC resistance:

U-V 10.385 miliohms
V-W 10.637 miliohm
W-U 10.228 miliohms

Motor inductance:

U-V min:47 max:56 avg: 51.5uH
V-W min:48 max:55 avg: 51.5uH
W-U min:47 max:55 avg: 51uH

-------------------------------


Doc

 

[sc-surfer]

Hi,I did not sniff the communication, but my friend do. I planning to connect to it via arduino, and print on LCD :current,cell voltages, temperatures, etc. BMS can be also reconfigured, my friend has config files where he can do changes and then send it to BMS. He increased current limit in my battery from 95A to 125A. So my BMS is fully working and its safer than bypass and still fully working coulomb meter (percentage LCD) . I did shunt mod to my controller so i needed to modify battery for bigger current.

PLEASE tell us how this can be done. Would be amazing to be able to re-program the bms instead of blindly bypassing it!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[stepus]

Nice find DOC !

My friend has a SW and RS485 converter from sur-ron as a service man, so he did some digging into config files they give to him with some FW for repairing some BMSs, and findout it can be fully customisable. Reading BMS is possible with every RS485 converter, but writting config is possible only with RS485 converter from surron. Config files are worthless without original RS485 converter from sur-ron.
I thing its not worth it to modify stock battery, everyone buys a new battery 72V anyway, because 60V surron battery is a piece of crap, mine sags from 65V to 55V at 125A Balancing cells is also to laugh. So if you want a real power you need a different battery.
I did a shunt mod to controller, and modify battery just to try it and do bike a little more funny. In a future i going to buy also 72V battery and mod surron controller for it or i will do my own, or buy some

 

[sc-surfer]

Absolutely, new batteries are gonna be better, but for those of us who have stock 60v, we would still like to get max performance out of them. I'd be willing to pay a small fee for someone to reprogram my 2 batteries. Once they die I'll get something better but might as well run them till they quit.

 

[DubbyMcDubs]

Nice find DOC !

My friend has a SW and RS485 converter from sur-ron as a service man, so he did some digging into config files they give to him with some FW for repairing some BMSs, and findout it can be fully customisable. Reading BMS is possible with every RS485 converter, but writting config is possible only with RS485 converter from surron. Config files are worthless without original RS485 converter from sur-ron.
I thing its not worth it to modify stock battery, everyone buys a new battery 72V anyway, because 60V surron battery is a piece of crap, mine sags from 65V to 55V at 125A Balancing cells is also to laugh. So if you want a real power you need a different battery.
I did a shunt mod to controller, and modify battery just to try it and do bike a little more funny. In a future i going to buy also 72V battery and mod surron controller for it or i will do my own, or buy some

I would love to know more about this! There was always something that didn't sit well with me regarding a physical bypass of the BMS.

What is so special about the Sur-ron RS485 cable? Can we get some photos or details on it? If we had a config file and the details of the cable we may be able to homebrew a solution to avoid physical bypass.

 

[stepus]

Hi, my friend has the 485 surron converter and can modify config on some FW versions of the batteries, not me. I just plan to connect to 485 and read the data from the BMS and display it on the screen on handlebar. It will show voltage,current, temp, power, calculated consuption and range etc. Also i thing it could convert ANT BMS data to surron data format, so on l1e version surron there will not blinking error and showing SOC and voltage from aftermarket battery.

Meanwhile my friend sent me blowned old surron controller, so i deppoted it
It looks similar to newer FOC that i deppoted and tuned
Current sensing is on Batt - and with shunt 1mOhm. There is none phase current sensing - they probably limits PWM duty cycle by RPMs.
Current sense opamp is TL3472C - shunts are four 4mOhm 1% resistors in paralel
MCU is CY8C24533, driving three IR2101s boosted with transistors
Fets are same as in my newer FOC controller - IPB042N10N3

Surron made some progress on the controllers, FOC is better, sensing phase current - safer, gatedriving is on same board as fets in FOC + overall better gate driving, decoupling electrolytes all paralel (on this old controler is 6 electrolytes on battery side, and 8 electrolytes after shunt resistor paralel to fets.

Controller probably fails at phase B high side fets and phase C lower fets, Then an arc ignited through the inductance of the motor, and starts boiling aluminium PCB and even aluminium case/heatsink

I will probably use controller case for my controler, probably VESC or Lebowski brain based ? What will you recommend to me ? Best if I could use a already made brain PCB, and built only my own powerstage.
Thanks

 

[j bjork]

Damn, that was broken

 

[DubbyMcDubs]

Hi, my friend has the 485 surron converter and can modify config on some FW versions of the batteries, not me.

Is he willing to provide any details? Like a photo of the cable or its control board?

 

[fechter]

I guess the circuit breaker is sort of useless.
Bet it smells pretty bad.

It would be nice to know what the operating conditions were at the time of failure.

 

[DubbyMcDubs]

Does anyone know which bluetooth BMS the Segway X260 uses, or which BMS app might work with it?

 

[Doctorbass]

For those who are looking to replace the motor KTY84-130 temp sensor inside the motor, be aware that these are discontinued and also that there is alot of fake one on the market that might at a certain high temperature begin to give false reading making that you think your motor was rising temp and now suddenly cool down.. but it is still climbing!

I am now looking to find the exact same replacement thermistor.. Nor Digikey, Mouser or Newark seem to have these.

Doc

 

[fechter]

I was out for a ride yesterday and my tire got nailed. Handling started feeling squirrely and I looked down to see the rear tire was going flat. Luckily I was only a few blocks from home and I just walked the bike. The tire side walls are almost stiff enough you could ride it, but I didn't want to totally screw up the rims. Walking was no problem, but embarrassing. The nail went in head first.

 

[ZeroEm]

Guess they are not flat proof. Had to be a bad day. That is hard to do.

 

[AZeBikeGuy]

Sealant?

I've had multiple larger thorns (1/10"-1/8") that stans sealed up fine but I do understand nail ≠ thorn... for one the thorns break off

 

[pr0ton]

Also i thing it could convert ANT BMS data to surron data format, so on l1e version surron there will not blinking error and showing SOC and voltage from aftermarket battery.

This would be a really neat functionality for the Surron community. I hope you can figure it out!!

I also found the FULL DOCUMENT ABOUT TUV certification for the Sur ron!!!

Nice! Thanks for all your research and sharing Doc.

 

[Cheburator]

What is the proper tire pressure for offroad riding with stock wheels?
The manual states 225 kpa (2.25bar) which obviously is too high.

 

[Hawaiiguy]

20 psi with stock tires to prevent pinch flats and ripping your tube stem out.The stock tire is 2ply.

 

[AZeBikeGuy]

I was thinking they likely meant 22.5psi and it got lost in translation

 

[sens_dep]

Anyone have experience swapping tires on the 17 inch moto kit? Got a set of heidenau k66 tires that I want to put on. Local shop said they couldn’t get the rear one to “bead up”.

Should I try another shop? Definitely not something I can do by hand :lol:

 

[smdub]

I put a Kenda 760 on the rear supermoto 17" rims w/o a problem.

 

[LD1]

Broke my hall sensor magnet...hoping someone can save me here so I don't have to buy an entire new motor. Any chance someone knows where to get a replacement magnet for the small ring magnet that's underneath the hall sensor? Or maybe someone has a dead/scrap motor they could pull the magnet from?

 

[dirkdiggler]

Saw this ad on my local classifieds. Probably won't sellout this price, but $7400 for a used segway version?
I'd like to know how he got the foot brake going. Anyone else do that?

 

[dirkdiggler]

While I'm here, saw this vid while waiting on my Time emoto that's stuck on a boat off California. Some crazy underground e bike club in NYC. Don't know how they get away with this with cops. I've gotten in trouble in my small town.
[youtube]1zQU_1P7zGg[/youtube]

 

[Cheburator]

I'd like to know how he got the foot brake going.

I believe he used this product: www.ntcdesigns.com/products/sur-ron-hydraulic-rear-foot-brake