Thread for new battery breakthrough PR releases

[liveforphysics]

As EV volumes increase, the value in a mfg solving reluctance motor drive gets a larger and larger bounty, as PM material cost eliminated from each vehicle becomes more substantial.

Manufacturers have difficulty with Reluctance Drive ? Why ?

Using traditional SR rotor geometry, a 2 pole yields highest average specific torque, but it has extreme torque ripple. As you add poles the torque ripple decreases, but the rotor iron losses increase.
You gain improvement in specific torque with a rotor geometry enabling peak change in inductance around the stator tooth.

 

[Lebowski]

but can't the motor be made such that the change in inductance (versus rotor position) is sinusoidal ?

so it is a specific torque versus torque ripple issue ?
Can't they suppress unwanted harmonics in the (mechanical) output by suppressing those in the controller ?

 

[Pajda]

Can't they suppress unwanted harmonics in the (mechanical) output by suppressing those in the controller ?

Yes this is the key issue of reluctance motors that is still failing to solve completely. More specifically, the reluctance motors are still not as smooth and quiet running as IPM-SM.

 

[Lebowski]

Hm, I know for bldc it is quite easy to supress the harmonics, never looked into into for a SR motor

 

[LockH]

Hehe... You Guys... the "problem" might be as how to make a battery watt drives a "large" (read "big" and "heavy") vehicle with one operator ("driver") with extra (empty) seats plus plenty of extra (empty) cargo spaces... watt goes at speeds MUCH faster than most urban speed limits, to go "huge" distances (not just to local stores but eg "to the mall") using lots of energy to power motor and lights and cigarette lighter and drinks coolers... and "stuff".

Might occur to some that "the future is already here, just not EVenly distributed" when you see places and cities already starting to severely restrict and BAN use of the private "horseless carriage" aka "cars" and "SUVs"...

... and the "fastest"/most energy-dense battery I know of is used to power the electric motor of a "tiny" bike and trike just by swapping the battery. An "empty" battery for a "full" battery. Takes about one minute. Or less.

... And "it" is "already here".

 

[speedmd]

Lebowski wrote:
Can't they suppress unwanted harmonics in the (mechanical) output by suppressing those in the controller ?


Yes this is the key issue of reluctance motors that is still failing to solve completely. More specifically, the reluctance motors are still not as smooth and quiet running as IPM-SM.
Pajda

Ultimate solution may in the interim be to continue to use PM but in much smaller bits as a magnetic suspension or rotational catalyst of sorts rather than going full switched reluctance. There may be a good balance which spares most of the magnetic material and allows for smooth quite operation today.

 

[liveforphysics]

Lebowski wrote:
Can't they suppress unwanted harmonics in the (mechanical) output by suppressing those in the controller ?


Yes this is the key issue of reluctance motors that is still failing to solve completely. More specifically, the reluctance motors are still not as smooth and quiet running as IPM-SM.
Pajda

Ultimate solution may in the interim be to continue to use PM but in much smaller bits as a magnetic suspension or rotational catalyst of sorts rather than going full switched reluctance. There may be a good balance which spares most of the magnetic material and allows for smooth quite operation today.

That is a fair description of what's already used in today's IPM motor rotors used in about every non-Tesla EV available today.

The next generation just removes the requirement of needing the little embedded seed magnets in exchange for improving the iron reluctance torque capacity.

The real magic for SR happens by finding a rotor iron geometry that keeps the magnetic flux path to make torque as short as geometrically possible to complete the the magnetic circuit while retaining the biggest sharpest swing in inductance as the rotor pole passes the tooth. This is why PM motors have heads in the tooth to enable approximately sinus BEMF, and SR motors use a sharp edged rectangular stator tooth to keep the magnetic path transition as sharp as possible.

I don't feel qualified to speak on motors beyond that level, as I'm not a motor expert, I just have been fortunate to get exposure to some modern RnD efforts.

 

[neptronix]

http://sydney.edu.au/news-opinion/n...dney-charges-ahead-on-zinc-air-batteries.html

University of sydney announced that they created a working battery with 3.4 times the energy density of today's best lithium.

Oh.. 60 cycles to 10% might sound bad until you think about how much energy this battery would be able to charge and discharge over it's life.

Let's say that the big Model S is doing 330 miles on 100kwhrs. That's 3.3 miles per kwhr. 3.3 miles per kwhr is 1122 miles on a 340kwhr pack then. ( with the assumption that 340kw-hr can fit in the same space and weight, based on the improved energy density of this battery. )

So this battery loses 10% of it's energy capacity after 67,320 miles of travel, which reduces your total range to about 1009.8 miles. Not a big deal.

Assuming this battery degradation curve is linear..
After 120 cycles or 134,640 miles, we are down to an 897.6 miles of range.
After 180 cycles or 201,960 miles, we are down to 785.4 miles of range.
After 240 cycles or 269,280 miles, we are down to 673.2 miles of range.
After 300 cycles or 336,600 miles, we are down to 561 miles of range.
After 360 cycles or 403,920 miles, we are down to 448.8 miles of range.
After 420 cycles or 471,240 miles, we are down to 336.6 miles of range.

A battery like this could outlast the sheet metal that's wrapped around it, unless there are some hidden hitches, like a really poor calendar life.

If it is capable of 0.5C of discharge at the least, this could be a mind blowing development for ebikes. The only problem is that it's something like 0.5V nominal, so for a 36v battery pack, you are going to need 72 cells in series.. :lol: there will need to be a paradigm shift in how BMSes are designed if this type of battery requires one.

 

[crazymanc]

It'll never take off like that but the proof of concept is nice. With some of the solid electrolyte battery techs floating around offering 2-3 times the energy density plus a dramatic increase in cycles...this seems like a 2 steps back one step forward scenario.

For the way I use my ebike 60 cycles to 10% isn't all that great. Neither will it work for phones or tablets. Even with 3x the battery life I'd still be charging my phone once a day or once every two days.

60 cycles also implies that quick charging/discharging could significantly affect its lifetime too. If the battery needs slow charging to give those 60 cycles then it won't be popular, neither will it be if it can't deliver high currents. I guess we need more information.

 

[crazymanc]

If it managed 60 charge and discharge cycles in 120 hours that implies 1C charge and discharge rates.

Given big enough capacity batteries, used in parallel, this could potentially extend the cycle time but it would still require long charging times.

 

[DVDRW]

Guys! new cell is on nkon and lowest price in the world!
LG INR18650-M26 2600mAh - 10A
1.7€
Datasheet
What do you think?

 

[hemo]

They only have 10 cells in stock, try loading more in your basket :lol: .

 

[DVDRW]

Yeah, figured it out too. 100pcs listing price gives hope.
1C charging is interesting option. There is no cheap cells with this capability.

 

[Perth_ebiker]

Question about cycles and their Zinc Air battery post above

I commute on my ebike and use 15Ah out of my 17.7Ah pack every day. So I charge at night. Allowing for holidays, I work 48 weeks per year so that's 240 cycles pa. I'm expecting around 700-1000 cycles over the life of the battery before I lose enough capacity to force me to charge at work. That's when I buy a new pack.

If I had a tesla,I'd expect Id probably plug it in to charge irrespective of how flat the battery actually is. Is that wrong ? Should we only charge our EV cars when they are flat ? I understand Lithium batteries don't have a memory so I thought frequent charging did to harm.

I understand that in my example - 1 charge is not 1 cycle. Is this ok behaviour for tesla owners ??

 

[parabellum]

If I had a tesla,I'd expect Id probably plug it in to charge irrespective of how flat the battery actually is. Is that wrong ? Should we only charge our EV cars when they are flat ? I understand Lithium batteries don't have a memory so I thought frequent charging did to harm.

I understand that in my example - 1 charge is not 1 cycle. Is this ok behaviour for tesla owners ??

Ageing of Li cells is slower at nominal voltage, it is better not to have the pack fully charged (electrolyte decomposition) nor discharge deeply (anode/cathode delithiation, chem. depending). I try to stay in the 3.5V-4V zone or fully charge just before use. (I am not Tesla owner BTW)

 

[LockH]

2 new lithium. Battery factories to be built in Australia. !....

....Australia’s first battery storage “gigafactory” is likely to be built in Darwin, with a new consortium planing to establish a large-scale lithium-ion manufacturing plant by the end of 2018.

Energy Renaissance, a company backed by engineering group UGL (now owned by CIMIC) says the first phase of the $100 million plant will create four distinct production lines, and will target niche utility and industrial scale markets in Australia and Asia.

Energy Renaissance is partnering with US battery storage company 24M, and is said to have the enthusiastic support, if not the financial backing, of the new Labor government, which also has a 50 per cent renewable energy target by 2030.

“Renaissance One” – as it will be known – is one of at least two “gigafactory” proposals for Australia, with the Boston Energy consortium led by former Macquarie Group property guru Bill Moss looking at a much larger 15GWh production line in Townsville.

http://reneweconomy.com.au/battery-storage-gigafactory-planned-darwin-2018/

Watt maybe wasn't mentioned about 24M...

Lithium battery technology breakthrough could totally change solar power:
http://inhabitat.com/lithium-battery-technology-breakthrough-could-totally-change-solar-power/

Includes:

While the Tesla Powerwall hopes to be part of the solution, a new method of manufacturing lithium batteries, pioneered by MIT researchers and Cambridge-based company 24M, may cut production costs in half and open up enormous opportunities for renewable energy.

Goes on:

Yet-Ming Chiang, professor at MIT and co-founder of 24M, was inspired to pursue a new manufacturing method after noting inefficiencies in the status quo. “We’re reinventing the lithium ion battery,” says Chiang, “the cost of the product is too high, and the manufacturing process is too complex.” After decades of little change in how lithium batteries were produced, Chiang and his team have developed a new process that allows for a radical decrease in battery costs and increase in durability.

The new process uses fewer, thicker electrodes than in traditional lithium batteries, which allows for a simpler, more efficient battery structure. This method reduces the amount of non-functional material in the battery structure by 80% and produces lithium batteries that can be folded, bent, or punctured by bullets without failing. The capital investment for building and expanding a factory with 24M’s new process is also significantly less than traditional lithium battery manufacturing.

At least 10,000 prototype batteries have been produced at 24M’s facility in Cambridge, Massachusetts. Customers have been testing these new batteries since December 2014. In 2020, the company aims to begin high-volume production of grid-scale batteries for use by utilities. By that same year, Chiang estimates that 24M will be capable of producing batteries for less than $100 per kilowatt-hour of capacity, far less than the cost of contemporary batteries. Although the company is waiting to see how the electric vehicle market develops, its process may be utilized to make effective, lightweight batteries well suited for cars. Venkat Viswanathan, assistant professor at Carnegie Mellon University, which is not involved with 24M, comments that this new process could “could do the same sort of disruption to [lithium ion] batteries manufacturing as what mini-mills did to the integrated steel mills.”

8)

 

[crazymanc]

Interesting but no mention of energy density or charge/discharge characteristics. I'm guessing they are favourable otherwise there'd be no point.

 

[LockH]

^^ Hehe... "lithium batteries that can be folded, bent, or punctured by bullets without failing."

Some might settle for a windscreen and other "shell" vehicle cover/etc parts watt can store electricity (and can be recharged).

:wink:

 

[Hillhater]

Interesting but no mention of energy density or charge/discharge characteristics. I'm guessing they are favourable otherwise there'd be no point.

From a few pages (and years !) back..
https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/24m-unveils-the-reinvented-lithium-ion-battery

 

[LockH]

Hehe... 24M still pumping out press releases... (this from February this year):

24M Selected as a 2017 Global Cleantech 100 Company:
http://24-m.com/pressrelease/

CAMBRIDGE, Mass. – February 3, 2017 – The Cleantech Group (CTG) announced on January 23, 2017 that lithium-ion battery manufacturer 24M has been selected as a 2017 Global Cleantech 100 company. The list is a barometer of the global innovation community’s views on which companies are most likely to have significant commercial impact in the next 5-10 years.

:wink:

 

[bearing]

Company "Ionic Materials, Inc.":
http://ionicmaterials.com/

(They say

Ionic Materials is a technology company focused on developing materials for batteries. At the core of our value proposition is a new solid polymer that has all of the properties required to replace the liquid electrolytes used in currently-available batteries.

... and:

Ionic Materials’ polymer is a true platform technology that enables a wide range of next generation battery chemistries including lithium metal anodes, high voltage intercalation cathodes, sulfur conversion cathodes and a proprietary system that we refer to as our “High Wh/L” chemistry. All of these chemistries have potential to dramatically improve performance and safety, and reduce costs compared to conventional lithium ion systems.

Spotted as being intro'ed on upcoming PBS series:
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/exclu...ry-that-holds-2x-as-much-power-202145984.html

I'm bumping this, because I think it seems promising.

What are your comments to this solid state electrolyte?

Apparently, it can also be used for alkaline batteries (Zn/MnO2), which makes them rechargeable. This might be a more environmentally friendly battery than lithium with cobolt. And cheaper.

 

[LockH]

[youtube]44z88XG_esk[/youtube]

 

[SniperGaulois]

Tesla says that it's car batteries reach 80% capacity after 840,000km.

based on 900 tesla cars and normal driving habits, the batteries are lasting long enough to travel around the world about 20 times.

it's an interesting graph because there is an anomaly under 50,000 kilometers, due to heavy battery usage or implying that Tesla included deficient batteries in the graph.

 

[crazymanc]

Well there are lots of people who sit below the curve and there are many that sit above it too. In all circumstances you're going to get extremes included.

Some people will pedal to the metal the car regularly, some will use the air con all the time, others will only charge the car at super chargers and then there are the people who travel/commute very long distances and will maybe use up 80% of the battery on a daily basis.

Certainly if you are using almost all of the cars battery capacity every single day then you're going to see battery depreciation like this.

Predictions and measured results for lithium ion batteries say as much too, it's only when average use is taken into account that 800,000km claims can be quoted. As usual it needs qualification otherwise it's misleading, drive your car like this and you'll be fine, drive it like this...and you won't be.

 

[SniperGaulois]

Europe is going to try to develop it's battery factories soon, VW said that they need 4 times the volume of GigaFactory to supply it's cars... VW wants 4bn investment, ford is at 4bn and GE is a 1bn investment budget, RnD and tooling for EV's... so new technologies with solid state lithium batteries and higher range have a good time to find contracts in Europe for licensing their technolgoies.

What's interesting is the 2nd market for EV's... If the lifespan of the cars is above 500,000km, up to 1-million kilometer second hand EV's can be bought and sold. that's a radical change for the entire planet. the car market will be only 1/2 as many cars in 2050 as it was in 2020.