Turnigy Multistar 10C 10AH versus Allcell pack comparison

[neptronix]

^-- i agree. Unless the ~50A load is really sporadic, i'd run another 10AH in parallel for best performance.

I tried headways once, they were awful. What was advertised as a 5C cell performed like an absolute saggy space heater at 2C

 

[bionicdan]

90 percent of the time I draw 10-14amps but the last hill is a 40 amps sucker. Takes 30 seconds to climb it.

It was just a one off test really, I either run 2s2p 10ah's or 2s 16ah cells I hate thinking im torturing electronic devices and avoid it where possible.

Just realised every pack has a dent in the same place and it wasnt me who did it. They are tucking the xt90 under the soft side of the cell at the factory. My newest 16ah cell has a nasty dent before I even touched it. Iv let them know but dunno if they will do anything. So I may as well stop worrying as much about protection as they have already survived that. No wonder airlines are getting pissed with carrying these cells if they wont even pack them safely.

 

[kudos]

^-- i agree. Unless the ~50A load is really sporadic, i'd run another 10AH in parallel for best performance.

Nep, do you reckon it's OK to run different C rate lipo together once in a while?

I've never been sure about that?

Edit: Web search says that's a no no.

Kudos

 

[kudos]

I can't see what the max safe charge rate is for the 16Ah ?

Anyone know? ie how many amps can you safely pump-in per batt?

Kudos

 

[icecube57]

Im assuming 2C

 

[kudos]

Im assuming 2C

So 32Amps for the 16Ah.

I'll be charging two in parallel at 30A so should be fine.

Kudos

 

[bionicdan]

^-- i agree. Unless the ~50A load is really sporadic, i'd run another 10AH in parallel for best performance.

Nep, do you reckon it's OK to run different C rate lipo together once in a while?

I've never been sure about that?

Edit: Web search says that's a no no.

Kudos

When I searched that question i found a bunch of guys say no way (who hadnt tried it) and a bunch of guys who said yes fine (who have tried it) as long as they have the same voltage/charge status when being joined and you keep within the c ratings. I was thinking of running 16ah cells with 10ah on mega rides to save stopping and swapping them out.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1893974

 

[Russell]

When I searched that question i found a bunch of guys say no way (who hadnt tried it) and a bunch of guys who said yes fine (who have tried it) as long as they have the same voltage/charge status when being joined and you keep within the c ratings. I was thinking of running 16ah cells with 10ah on mega rides to save stopping and swapping them out.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1893974

Yeah, no problem paralleling LiPo as long as they are the same voltage. I paralleled 12S 8Ah Turnigy NanoTechs with 12S 5Ah Zippys with no issues. Once joined they essentially become one battery so the voltage will remain the same on both packs as they are discharged. And yeah they can be charged in parallel too.

What you have to watch out for is when you SERIES connect dissimilar batteries. In this case the lower capacity pack will discharge completely before the higher capacity pack. You can still do it however you need to monitor the smaller pack and stop discharging when it is low otherwise it will be ruined.

-R

 

[neptronix]

^-- nailed it

 

[thekubiaks]

I just received a Multistar 16000maH 6S battery from Hobbyking. It was well packaged and no damage or distortion. Time for some testing.

First, balance charged with a Thunder T610 Balance/Charger.

Discharged at 1.0A to ~ 21.0V.

First picture shows the battery "health" after the discharge. (I intended to stop discharge at 21.0V but T610 I think was going to go all the way down to 3.0V per cell which is too low for me.)

Anyway, note that at 20.62V the capacity of the battery is way over the rated 16,000maH and had quite a ways to go to 3.0V per cell. Very, very impressive battery IMHO. Note the second picture (Multistar 2)

For me, its a no brainer. Why mess with all of the 18650 battery issues of sorting, bogus retailers and their claimed capacities, fire hazards, to BMS or not to BMS?, charging, etc. For my ebike, simply take two of these Multistar 16000maH 6S batteries in series and presto, easy 48V pack. To charge, use two 24V 6S balance chargers and piece of cake, done. YMMV

 

[gblast123]

I just received a Multistar 16000maH 6S battery from Hobbyking. It was well packaged and no damage or distortion. Time for some testing.

First, balance charged with a Thunder T610 Balance/Charger.

Discharged at 1.0A to ~ 21.0V.

First picture shows the battery "health" after the discharge. (I intended to stop discharge at 21.0V but T610 I think was going to go all the way down to 3.0V per cell which is too low for me.)

Anyway, note that at 20.62V the capacity of the battery is way over the rated 16,000maH and had quite a ways to go to 3.0V per cell. YOU MEAN THAT THEY WEREN'T ALMOST EMPTY?? SAY IT AIN'T SO!!! Very, very impressive battery IMHO. Note the second picture (Multistar 2)

For me, its a no brainer. Why mess with all of the 18650 battery issues of sorting, bogus retailers and their claimed capacities, fire hazards, to BMS or not to BMS?, charging, etc. For my ebike, simply take two of these Multistar 16000maH 6S batteries in series and presto, easy 48V pack. To charge, use two 24V 6S balance chargers and piece of cake, done. YMMV

OMG, WHAT DID U DO?
YOU CAN JUST THROW THAT PACK AWAY NOW.. they dropped below 3.7 v.. they are damaged and unbalanced...

If u believe what the others on a similar thread posted, that pack is worthless.

I, however, disagree with them with regard IRREPERABLE DAMAGE TO PACKS BY letting these things drop below 3.7v.

Actually, you should immediately charge them up in balance mode and use them a little more judiciously for the first 10 or so cycles.

 

[Punx0r]

Do you realise that 95% of people reading your post will have no idea what your point is?

For that majority, I will point out that the outburst is in relation to this thread: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=61672&start=150

Where gblast123 intimated that charging LiCo to 3.7 VPC was a good idea. Majority opinion was that this was a silly idea for various reasons and evidence was given. Rather than back down graciously, gblast123 stuck to his guns, making increasingly tenuous arguments until he was left with no room to manoeuvre and abandoned the discussion. He's clearly now decided to resume it here, twisted into the assertion his opponents (that is, everyone on this forum) claims discharging LiCo to 3.7 VPC will trash them.

Yes, it really is that silly.

 

[neptronix]

Sigh, do i need to post this for the 999999th time? ( note: i just got a discharge graph from icecube57 and he is showing a ~99% identical curve, so this graph from the 20C 5AH packs still applies )

Another note.. icecube57 was still at 3.5v per cell average when he hit 16ah on his discharge tests. He got something like 16.7ah by letting the first cell drop to 3.0v and stopping the discharge right there. That's not bad at all.

And by discharging at a constant 3C rate, he also got 15.8AH out of the pack to 3.5v.. so the discharge efficiency of these packs is quite good and 'watt hours delivered' look even better than what i calculated if you baby these packs.

 

[spinningmagnets]

These are looking pretty good, even if they only last a year. If you want a high-amp battery that is a convenient size (only two bricks for 12S). I might get a pair of these to play with since it is such a low entry price.

What charger is the lowest-priced model that is still reasonably reliable for balance-charging these?

http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/stor...pacity_6S_10000mAh_Multi_Rotor_Lipo_Pack.html

 

[thekubiaks]

For the sake of discussion, if there was a 3.7V "cliff" for Lipo batteries then you would think that all of the battery charger manufacturers would limit the discharge cycle to 3.7V instead of 3.5V or 3.0V?? I see what you mean on the graphs about a rapid voltage falloff at 3.7V. I have flown RC planes for years using 3.5V/cell for a cutoff without any issues.

I have two ebikes, one is a 24V 500W hub and will run with the Multistar 16000 6S, and the other is a Bafang BBS02 750W running off of an 18650 cell 48V 20aH 12s10p. If there are any exciting technical issues, I'll report them here.

Cheers

 

[icecube57]

These are looking pretty good, even if they only last a year. If you want a high-amp battery that is a convenient size (only two bricks for 12S). I might get a pair of these to play with since it is such a low entry price.

What charger is the lowest-priced model that is still reasonably reliable for balance-charging these?

http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/stor...pacity_6S_10000mAh_Multi_Rotor_Lipo_Pack.html

The 10AH packs dont react the same way they perform worse. I know I tested those at 5C and it was delivering like 5.8AH when it started dipping below 3.5v a cell.

 

[melodious]

These packs wouldn't fit most of the RC models you'd normally find. Wondering if this is an attempt to capture more business for larger EV applications bigger than the hobby RC stuff. Just sayin'. Savvy folks have been using the ohso common ~4-8Ah packs using wiring harnesses for awhile now. This product bridges the gap between the savvy and the uninitiated.

 

[thekubiaks]

OMG, WHAT DID U DO?
YOU CAN JUST THROW THAT PACK AWAY NOW.. they dropped below 3.7 v.. they are damaged and unbalanced...

If u believe what the others on a similar thread posted, that pack is worthless.

I, however, disagree with them with regard IRREPERABLE DAMAGE TO PACKS BY letting these things drop below 3.7v.

Actually, you should immediately charge them up in balance mode and use them a little more judiciously for the first 10 or so cycles.

So, I balanced the Multistar 16000 6S back up and took my ebike for an easy 5.5 mile ride. All cells stayed within .02V of each other. I used ~ 2000maH with no voltage sag. This is a rock solid battery for my 24V 500W bike. Thanks icecube for your videos and drawing my attention to these batteries.

 

[bofred]

These packs wouldn't fit most of the RC models you'd normally find. Wondering if this is an attempt to capture more business for larger EV applications bigger than the hobby RC stuff. Just sayin'. Savvy folks have been using the ohso common ~4-8Ah packs using wiring harnesses for awhile now. This product bridges the gap between the savvy and the uninitiated.

Hi all, Tank you for making this thread. I got my 6S 12Ah lipos today and they look sweet

I need to state that these 6S batteries would just fit Great on a larger multicopter. And 1.5Kg battery is not a heavy load for those machines. If you want to carry a camera weight of 1Kg and battery 1.5Kg you dont need a very large or advanced multicopter. Beleive me I have build many smaller ones. These batteries are perfect for long range multicopters, plane and also 48V ebikes. The fact that the controller cut the voltage a bit early I like. You should never dischrge a lipo to the lowest point without a BMS. Regards,

Adding a picture of the battery that fits my strange frame.

The bike is here: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=63940

 

[Dirtech]

Hey, just a quick question!
I have bought several of these 4s 16Ah batteries for my new build but the controller I would like to use has an anderson connector for the battery. Does anybody know where I could get an adapter for xt90 to anderson or will I have to do some soldering?
I plan to put up to 100A through it
Thanks in advance.

 

[icecube57]

PP45 are for guess what 45A. You need some bullets xt150 is my best suggestion as an alternative. There is nothing wrong with the xt90 on there.

 

[docnjoj]

I made my own adapters XT90 to PP45. Just solder the wires to the XT90s and crimp the Andersons. I rarely go above 30 amps or around 2C for any battery..
otherDoc

 

[neptronix]

One note to add to this thread..

The 16AH multistars have a little higher whrs/kg.. and icecube57 found about 16.5AH in them on average, so that figure is a little higher..

Hobbyking recently released 12AH multistars. These are cool because they are 55mm wide, versus 50mm wide for the turnigy 6S 5AH 20C packs. Thus, you could stuff a bunch of them side-by-side in a falconev/em3ev/frame bag with no problem. Unlike the 16ah packs, which are a really strange fit for the triangle bags, and some people have reported that they can only fit 3 bricks inside ( that's a problem !!! )

The downside: doing the same calcs.. they come out at 180whrs/kg instead of 190whrs/kg for the 16ah and 10ah multistars.

 

[Lurkin]

Converted and subscribed.

Would be interested to see a comparison of these to Nissan Leaf cells if anyone's able...

 

[icecube57]

http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=52162