Ultimate Ebike transport

[Falco]

I thought I would start a thread to see what people thought the Ultimate Ebike would be for the be all end all transport solution. I intend to travel around the world on this so reliability is a must.
I'm not worried about 'legal' I'm only worried about getting stranded in some hostile conditions. Hostile being either remote or political. With this in mind i think the ability to boost to 100km/h is a must. Range is a big consideration. The main thing though is how to make this bike. Is the ultimate ebike a motor bike or a bicycle or a mix. Do you use the best bicycle parts or mix in motorbike parts. Batteries are a limiting factor.
The intent of this bike would be to travel around doing up to 300km on a charge but at a slow speed. whilst also having a motor bike when needed.
So far im thinking..
Giant DH comp.
Addaptto maxi controller and bms solution.
schlumpf high speed drive.
battery consisting of 20s16p Samsung 18650 24r cells. maybe more.
Kowa GF air suspension.
Shinko 241 19x2.75 tires
Cromotor v3 or v4 in 19in Prowheel
Hope V4 brakes.

I will be building this bike and using it for for the purpose stated above. Just would like to know if there is a better way.
cheers

 

[cwah]

I wonder how you're going to fit 320 cells in a Giant DH bike without handling issue

 

[xenodius]

Leaning recumbent delta trike with serial hybrid transmission, big DD hub with epoxy coated stator, huge battery pack, full elastomer suspension, and thin-film flexible solar cells all over the entire full fairing with a polyurethane or epoxy-based finish... and a retractable Lexan bubble for weather. And vents. And a radio/music system.

Stick to bicycle tires so you can pack folding bead tires with you for spares.

 

[dogman dan]

Get out the welder.

No joke, you need a very robust cargo bike to go round the world. There is going to be long distances between plugs, and you will need to carry some camping stuff.

Ideally, you'd take that bike you mentioned, and build a custom frame to bolt all the components from it onto. Make it steel, so it can be fixed anywhere. Fat tires, possibly motorcycle stuff if you will ride unpaved roads.

So you'd retain the swingarm and all suspension, have a sturdy deck built into the frame above the rear wheel, and some huge spaces in the mid frame for battieries. BIG battery, like 1500-2000wh.

Cromotor a good idea, but you'd be running it on only about 2000w normally, and doing most of your travel at less than 1000w. 20 mph ish, to make it have range. Three speed switch to pop to full wattage if the hill is that gnarly, or you are getting chased by a lion.

What route? If you haven't watched "long way round", check it out, for how the road will be in Eastern Russia.

I may be ignorant of something, but isn't a schlumph drive a rear hub thing? How do you have that with a cromotor?
Keep the chain and rear derailleur.

 

[dannyboyohyeah]

What a noble enterprise. Be prepared for very different voltages coming through standard outlets, for charging. Best of luck.

 

[dannyboyohyeah]

You've got me to thinking. I've not done long tours on my ebike yet, but plenty via the ole pedal power, with lots of gear. The amount of weight to your proposed battery pack is going to be huge. I'd recommend a Bob trailer, to keep some of that weight spread out and off your bike. Or even a custom fabricated trailer that has perhaps more cargo room than the Bob. (you really don't want to pile stuff high in a trailer, because the wobble becomes severe....so long and low is far better.) With the amount of weight you're talking....the rolling resistance of one more tire really becomes a non-factor IMHO. Such a journey has many unforseen possiblities, such as the occasional need for transport by boat, rail, bus, camel, etc. And you need to occasionally HOIST this collasus, yourself. Bus, for example, you want a standard bike dimension and haul the trailer onboard or in cargo hold. You may be thinking (I'll never resort to anything but these two wheels)....but you are not close to home or with friendly help nearby. Who knows what you are going to encounter, as to conditions?? Plus, there's the weight of your charging apparatus, spare parts, etc,...not to mention WATER, which I've encounters lack of good sources in some places.
Then of course, the real cargo bike. Meant to hold a ton of weight. But...not easy to hoist as a unit, loaded. Won't fit on a busrack.
Carefully inspect your bike every couple've days to head off developing problems. Be able to fix anything. Cable-driven disc brakes.(very reliable)
We are all very much looking forward to hearing and seeing this saga unfold.

'

 

[trevc2]

...
Stick to bicycle tires so you can pack folding bead tires with you for spares.

Respectfully, I think that using a heavy Cromotor with regular bike tires/tubes is introducing a weak link and asking for trouble.

 

[John in CR]

Almost no pedal bike parts are appropriate...maybe just handlebar, stems, forks, and rear shock, if you can keep the build light enough. You're not going to pedal a bike with a 300km battery and other stuff you'll have to haul, so forget the pedals in favor of more comfort, better aerodynamics, and more space for batteries.

 

[cwah]

He still need the pedal so cops thinks it's a bicycle

 

[cal3thousand]

Why are you planning on a Cromotor if reliability is a must? To me, Cromotor means "I want to go fast as f*ck", not "I want the most reliable motor".

 

[teklektik]

I intend to travel around the world on this so reliability is a must.
I'm not worried about 'legal' I'm only worried about getting stranded in some hostile conditions. Hostile being either remote or political. With this in mind i think the ability to boost to 100km/h is a must.

Hmmm - no mention of how you are going to transport this across oceans or whether your tour is hopping from city to city or involves cross-country travel. IMHO the is no way to evaluate the requirements from what we know. Basically - it just sounds like you want to build a freaking fast heavy long range bike...

I don't quite grasp the logic behind your proposal.... I don't see anything that address reliability, redundancy, or ease of transport/charging.

I would go with 2WD for redundancy/reliability so the bike would always move. If you are flying a lot, I would think of something like a folding paratrooper with removable battery packs (probably panniers) so you can take the batteries to the charger (hotel room) - not the whole bike. Gear motors would be my first choice for hill climbing, weight, and stealth.

Basically - this: The Duty Cycle AWD - and, of course, you can buy one pre-made...

Also look at the ebikes.ca combo sensored/sensorless controllers that run sensored and switch to sensorless if a hall goes south. Their soon-to-be relased Cycle Satiator chargers are small waterproof and vibration-resistant - meant for traveling.

 

[AussieJester]

I would build it around a folding style steel bicycle frame... wouldn't go with anything larger
than a MAC frock motor, if you insist on a hub motor (obviously I myself wouldn't use a frock at all mid mount all the way)

I would be carrying spare set of gears for the MAC along with all other usual spares one carries a bicycle.
keep it light and compact as possible chances are you will jamming it all sorts transport where space a premium..
the MAC offers good speed for long distances and good hill climbing ability...want reliability speed forget
the cro motors and similar boat anchor weight frocks not needed for application IMHO

best of luck

KiM

 

[trevc2]

I would build it around a folding style steel bicycle frame... wouldn't go with anything larger
than a MAC frock motor, if you insist on a hub motor (obviously I myself wouldn't use a frock at all mid mount all the way)

I would be carrying spare set of gears for the MAC along with all other usual spares one carries a bicycle.
keep it light and compact as possible chances are you will jamming it all sorts transport where space a premium..
the MAC offers good speed for long distances and good hill climbing ability...want reliability speed forget
the cro motors and similar boat anchor weight frocks not needed for application IMHO

best of luck

KiM

Do you not consider Cromotors to be generally reliable, or simply too heavy?

 

[dogman dan]

Information inadequate for better suggestions.

But if I was trying to outrun a lion, or a Somali Pirate, a cromotor and 6000w would be a minimum. We just have no idea where he will be going.

I was heading towards a dual motor build on my cargo bike, I had dreams of doing the cross continent before the west nile virus ended my life. But that was only because I did not have the 5304 for it yet at that time. So I was going to use a front gearmotor to add power on the mountain passes.

Running a 5304 at 48v 40 amps. Max of 2000w. It climbs the mountain near my house and barely even warms up. Plenty reliable. On a cross country tour, I'd definitely want some things set up to mail to me if needed, or just carry them. Like extra halls, or a spare controller that's sensorless. By underkilling it, it's not going to blow anything except tires. Since I do not intend to exceed 30 mph, I stuck with bike tires. Get replacements in any town with a walmart or kmart, even if there is no bike shop. Carry a spare too, if the distance between towns is that far.

Aside from Justin riding across Canada, I think Kingfish has the touring ebike figured out very good. He doesn't use a cargo bike, but does long rides. He decided to ditch the trailer. Even on a cargo bike, you might still want to use a trailer in some places. Rig your bike to tow a very crude trailer when needed. Like so crude you could knock one together with some dolly wheels and scrap wood when needed. So you want a hitch on the bike for sure.

But if it's built for 100kph, then you obviously can't use bike tires, and run away at 60 mph down a dirt road.

 

[cwah]

I would build it around a folding style steel bicycle frame... wouldn't go with anything larger
than a MAC frock motor, if you insist on a hub motor (obviously I myself wouldn't use a frock at all mid mount all the way)

I would be carrying spare set of gears for the MAC along with all other usual spares one carries a bicycle.
keep it light and compact as possible chances are you will jamming it all sorts transport where space a premium..
the MAC offers good speed for long distances and good hill climbing ability...want reliability speed forget
the cro motors and similar boat anchor weight frocks not needed for application IMHO

best of luck

KiM

He wants to put like 15kg battery on his bike. No way his bike would ever bike light....

Mac motor is good for lightweight setup, but on a bike with more than 2000WH battery he needs something as reliable as possible.

I can't see anyone changing a motor gears on the middle of the road....

And one bigger bonus of DD is better efficiency on long straight road and SILENCE when running. I have a mac and sometime I prefer to run on a DD just for the premium of a silent bike on long road...

 

[Falco]

Thanks for the replies. I see this is idea has interested a few so ill go more into the plans i have so far.
The plan to cross the ocean to start with is to take my bike onto a cruise ship with me. Ill be heading to either Europe or south America to start but the journey has no end place insight now. Ill go everywhere i can. Europe is the easy option for me as power is plentiful and also I have European Passport. South America sounds more fun though. Africa will be the last continent for me to travel down as i see it as the most dangerous.
Ill fit 320 cells to my bike just like others have done. 20s12p in a pelican case up front and 20s4p in the frame. Ill use the addaptto maxi controller BMS for Regen charging of the battery. For redundancy ill be taking 2 of these. This combined with the dual halls of the cromotor should hopefully not leave me stranded. The BMS and Regen charging will simplify charging to only needing a 110v/220v switchable psu. I'm also thinking of thin film solar panels for when i camp for a few days between charges.
I like the idea of the trike for comfort etc but its not the ideal transport for getting out of trouble. You can take a dual suspension bike place a trike wont go.
Schlumpf high speed drive is a internally geared crank that can increase your front ring size by 2.5. great for high speed pedaling.
The 2wd idea is good for if one motor dies. Im hoping my cromotor doesnt and having dual halls it can quickly change to a fresh set as needed. Ive even been thinking of hubmonster for this instead of the cromotor but then i lose this redundancy.
I think a smaller geared motor will not last or meet the requirements. most of the time ill be doing 30km/h but some times you got to run to save your live though.

Ive watch long way round and long way down. That you could say was some inspiration for this. That and i now have nothing keeping me where i am.

 

[cal3thousand]

Thanks for the replies. I see this is idea has interested a few so ill go more into the plans i have so far.
The plan to cross the ocean to start with is to take my bike onto a cruise ship with me. Ill be heading to either Europe or south America to start but the journey has no end place insight now. Ill go everywhere i can. Europe is the easy option for me as power is plentiful and also I have European Passport. South America sounds more fun though. Africa will be the last continent for me to travel down as i see it as the most dangerous.
Ill fit 320 cells to my bike just like others have done. 20s12p in a pelican case up front and 20s4p in the frame. Ill use the addaptto maxi controller BMS for Regen charging of the battery. For redundancy ill be taking 2 of these. This combined with the dual halls of the cromotor should hopefully not leave me stranded. The BMS and Regen charging will simplify charging to only needing a 110v/220v switchable psu. I'm also thinking of thin film solar panels for when i camp for a few days between charges.
I like the idea of the trike for comfort etc but its not the ideal transport for getting out of trouble. You can take a dual suspension bike place a trike wont go.
Schlumpf high speed drive is a internally geared crank that can increase your front ring size by 2.5. great for high speed pedaling.
The 2wd idea is good for if one motor dies. Im hoping my cromotor doesnt and having dual halls it can quickly change to a fresh set as needed. Ive even been thinking of hubmonster for this instead of the cromotor but then i lose this redundancy.
I think a smaller geared motor will not last or meet the requirements. most of the time ill be doing 30km/h but some times you got to run to save your live though.

Ive watch long way round and long way down. That you could say was some inspiration for this. That and i now have nothing keeping me where i am.

Instead of taking another hall-dependent controller as backup, I would take along a sensorless controller. So in the case that you fry your halls (yeah, I know cromotor has 2 sets, but if you get it hot enough to burn one set, chances are the other are done too) you will still be able to get around.

 

[Falco]

Thanks for the replies. I see this is idea has interested a few so ill go more into the plans i have so far.
The plan to cross the ocean to start with is to take my bike onto a cruise ship with me. Ill be heading to either Europe or south America to start but the journey has no end place insight now. Ill go everywhere i can. Europe is the easy option for me as power is plentiful and also I have European Passport. South America sounds more fun though. Africa will be the last continent for me to travel down as i see it as the most dangerous.
Ill fit 320 cells to my bike just like others have done. 20s12p in a pelican case up front and 20s4p in the frame. Ill use the addaptto maxi controller BMS for Regen charging of the battery. For redundancy ill be taking 2 of these. This combined with the dual halls of the cromotor should hopefully not leave me stranded. The BMS and Regen charging will simplify charging to only needing a 110v/220v switchable psu. I'm also thinking of thin film solar panels for when i camp for a few days between charges.
I like the idea of the trike for comfort etc but its not the ideal transport for getting out of trouble. You can take a dual suspension bike place a trike wont go.
Schlumpf high speed drive is a internally geared crank that can increase your front ring size by 2.5. great for high speed pedaling.
The 2wd idea is good for if one motor dies. Im hoping my cromotor doesnt and having dual halls it can quickly change to a fresh set as needed. Ive even been thinking of hubmonster for this instead of the cromotor but then i lose this redundancy.
I think a smaller geared motor will not last or meet the requirements. most of the time ill be doing 30km/h but some times you got to run to save your live though.

Ive watch long way round and long way down. That you could say was some inspiration for this. That and i now have nothing keeping me where i am.

Instead of taking another hall-dependent controller as backup, I would take along a sensorless controller. So in the case that you fry your halls (yeah, I know cromotor has 2 sets, but if you get it hot enough to burn one set, chances are the other are done too) you will still be able to get around.

Thats a good point and something im thinking about. I think ill take a 12fet sensor-less controller as a back up. 3x redundancy incase of worst case scenario.

 

[Punx0r]

300km in a go, 60mph capability and needs to carry a lot of equipment and travel for thousands of miles reliably in all sorts of environments? Are you sure you don't want an ICE motorcycle?

 

[Falco]

300km in a go, 60mph capability and needs to carry a lot of equipment and travel for thousands of miles reliably in all sorts of environments? Are you sure you don't want an ICE motorcycle?

Im as sure as they come
300kms the max range. For when the next town is 300kms away. There will only be 6-7 times this will happen. Most of the world is connected. 60mph is a piece of cake for todays ebikes. I will be not carrying much with me. just the basics of life. no fancy stuff(apart from ebike)

 

[kudos]

Hi Falco,

Thanks for this. Amazing.

Not only are you planning to do something I've been dreaming about for years, namely two wheeled trip around the world, but also on an ebike too. I've been thinking about super long range ebiking for a while and how I might go about it.

I totally understand the performance you want to achieve, speed can be a safety issue etc

There are compromises to be made no matter what way you decide to go, but I'm really looking forward to seeing how you get on.

Best of luck.

Kudos

PS One way of doing it would be to get one of these:

http://www.noomadbike.com/en/basica/13-noomad-a-20-system.html

You could fit any size battery you want up front on this setup. Even a 300km battery.

Then add a trailer behind to carry anything else you need, spares, tent etc.

 

[melodious]

"Learn to crawl before you can walk" a wise man told me.

Once you get an electric build, it will become more apparent how much skill and knowledge and wisdom it takes to achieve your ultimate goal of a grand journey. You've come to the right place here on E-S for ideas and progression.

I also had similar vision as you. I built 2 electric bikes so far and realize in my position, it wasn't the bike limiting my vision, but the amount of battery needed to get me from point A and a presumeably distant and far away point B. You need A LOT of battery to do long distances if you only intend on traveling via power assist alone. Now if you change your mindset to only using the battery judiciously (say hills and extreme exhaustion) you probably can get by because your relying more on the energy that's stored in your body rather than the energy stored in the battery.

You have to find where you fit in this equation. How much are you willing to put in vs. the battery/motor. :|

 

[Nanoha]

Thanks for the replies. I see this is idea has interested a few so ill go more into the plans i have so far.
The plan to cross the ocean to start with is to take my bike onto a cruise ship with me. Ill be heading to either Europe or south America to start but the journey has no end place insight now. Ill go everywhere i can. Europe is the easy option for me as power is plentiful and also I have European Passport. South America sounds more fun though. Africa will be the last continent for me to travel down as i see it as the most dangerous.
Ill fit 320 cells to my bike just like others have done. 20s12p in a pelican case up front and 20s4p in the frame. Ill use the addaptto maxi controller BMS for Regen charging of the battery. For redundancy ill be taking 2 of these. This combined with the dual halls of the cromotor should hopefully not leave me stranded. The BMS and Regen charging will simplify charging to only needing a 110v/220v switchable psu. I'm also thinking of thin film solar panels for when i camp for a few days between charges.
I like the idea of the trike for comfort etc but its not the ideal transport for getting out of trouble. You can take a dual suspension bike place a trike wont go.
Schlumpf high speed drive is a internally geared crank that can increase your front ring size by 2.5. great for high speed pedaling.
The 2wd idea is good for if one motor dies. Im hoping my cromotor doesnt and having dual halls it can quickly change to a fresh set as needed. Ive even been thinking of hubmonster for this instead of the cromotor but then i lose this redundancy.
I think a smaller geared motor will not last or meet the requirements. most of the time ill be doing 30km/h but some times you got to run to save your live though.

Ive watch long way round and long way down. That you could say was some inspiration for this. That and i now have nothing keeping me where i am.

Instead of taking another hall-dependent controller as backup, I would take along a sensorless controller. So in the case that you fry your halls (yeah, I know cromotor has 2 sets, but if you get it hot enough to burn one set, chances are the other are done too) you will still be able to get around.

Thats a good point and something im thinking about. I think ill take a 12fet sensor-less controller as a back up. 3x redundancy incase of worst case scenario.

apparently, the addapto can run sensorless or sensored.

 

[Sunder]

I know I am so going to get flamed for this... But asking which electric bike to take into hostile environments is like asking which Nerf gun is best for personal protection in a gang war.

What are the odds of getting a replacement motor in the middle of a Somali village? How's the LiPo battery going to hold up under 60*C heat in the Simpson desert - hotter if the sun is shining on it?

Guess what the US Marine Corps Use? The M1030M1 Diesel motorcycle. It can run on anything from jet fuel, kerosene, diesel or cooking oil. It has only one cylinder, and will probably run for long enough for you to get away even after a .308 has gone through the block. Any metal worker in the middle of nowhere could probably fabricate most replacement parts for it, or jerry rig something up from another diesel if you can't get parts locally.

If you absolutely, positively have to get away every time, accept no substitutes.

 

[xenodius]

Thanks for the replies. I see this is idea has interested a few so ill go more into the plans i have so far.
The plan to cross the ocean to start with is to take my bike onto a cruise ship with me. Ill be heading to either Europe or south America to start but the journey has no end place insight now. Ill go everywhere i can. Europe is the easy option for me as power is plentiful and also I have European Passport. South America sounds more fun though. Africa will be the last continent for me to travel down as i see it as the most dangerous.
Ill fit 320 cells to my bike just like others have done. 20s12p in a pelican case up front and 20s4p in the frame. Ill use the addaptto maxi controller BMS for Regen charging of the battery. For redundancy ill be taking 2 of these. This combined with the dual halls of the cromotor should hopefully not leave me stranded. The BMS and Regen charging will simplify charging to only needing a 110v/220v switchable psu. I'm also thinking of thin film solar panels for when i camp for a few days between charges.
I like the idea of the trike for comfort etc but its not the ideal transport for getting out of trouble. You can take a dual suspension bike place a trike wont go.
Schlumpf high speed drive is a internally geared crank that can increase your front ring size by 2.5. great for high speed pedaling.
The 2wd idea is good for if one motor dies. Im hoping my cromotor doesnt and having dual halls it can quickly change to a fresh set as needed. Ive even been thinking of hubmonster for this instead of the cromotor but then i lose this redundancy.
I think a smaller geared motor will not last or meet the requirements. most of the time ill be doing 30km/h but some times you got to run to save your live though.

Ive watch long way round and long way down. That you could say was some inspiration for this. That and i now have nothing keeping me where i am.

Instead of taking another hall-dependent controller as backup, I would take along a sensorless controller. So in the case that you fry your halls (yeah, I know cromotor has 2 sets, but if you get it hot enough to burn one set, chances are the other are done too) you will still be able to get around.

Thats a good point and something im thinking about. I think ill take a 12fet sensor-less controller as a back up. 3x redundancy incase of worst case scenario.

The Adaptto controller can do sinusoidal and trap sensored/sensorless.

If you use 20" rims that fit 16"moto AND 20" bike tires then you can have the best of both worlds- plenty of spares to get you to the nearest shop with puncture proof moto ties!