V4 drive units now available.

[recumpence]

Hey Guys,

I have been designing another drive unit for a while now and I wanted to share it with you guys.

The background to this is;

Every drive unit I have sold in the last few months has included a torque limiter. Also, more and more people have asked for a belt drive unit that will handle a 3220. So, to that end, I have designed, and have in stock, V4 reduction units that have the following changes over the V3 drive;

#1 The motor plate is 1.5 inch longer. This allows for larger pulleys and better belt wrap around the motor pulley.
Also, the motor plate is thicker for less flex with a tight belt.
#2 Torque limiter is included.
#3 20mm wide belt (can use Polychain or GT2).
#4 Four set screws for the motor pulley.
#5 The motor pulley is 20 tooth and the secondary pulley is 80 tooth. This gives plenty of tooth engagement while retaining 4 to 1 ratio.

This drive unit is good for 12kw without any belt skip.

I have everything in stock other than FW adaptors (those are on order).

I will post pictures this afternoon.

Matt

 

[voicecoils]

sweet!

I'm hoping you can show some photos, dimensions & weight for a full reduction belt setup with your V4 reduction driving the wheel via your final stage belt drive with sprague clutch.

Am I right in thinking the the total reduction available if running all polychain is 4:1 x 3.07:1 = 12.28:1 ?

 

[mdan]

can you email me a price? what is the output shaft diameter?

thanks,
Mike

 

[recumpence]

The drive with torque limiter is $385. That is the same cost as a V3 unit with torque limiter, yet this system will handle twice the power.

Oh, this new drive is higher quality, overall. There are a number of details that are improved.

Yes. The overall ratio is a touch over 12 to 1.

Matt

 

[waxman123]

pictures pictures pictures!!!!!!!!!!!??????????

 

[wojtek]

that is like a dream come true ! non hub lightweight powerful drive with a silence of a hub motor!

damn I was too fast to order the chain drive!!!

 

[recumpence]

Hey Guys,

Sorry I did not get pics sooner, and even these are only component pics. But, you get the idea.

Anyway, you can see the new larger motor plate, wider belt, and larger pulley. I will post pictures of a complete drive when I build one.

It may not seem like much in the way of changes, but, trust me, it is not cheap to develop new products. I have 4 grand invested in this V4 development!

Anyway, I have the first production run nearly sold out. That is good. It will pay for development. The next run should actually turn a profit.

Matt

 

[JEB]

Matt; Would you sell just the 2 cog belt pulleys and a couple of belts? $?

Thanks, JEB

 

[Green Machine]

Matt,

Are the pieces in the photo all the pieces that come in the kit? (minus the ruler)

 

[recumpence]

What is not pictured is the torque limiter, freewheel adaptor, motor front bearing plate, and a few minor bits.

Sorry I have not posted completed drive pictures yet. Last week my appliance business was very busy (this is a good thing). I am back in the shop today and tomorrow. I will take pics and share them as I have them. :wink:

Matt

 

[recumpence]

OK, I installed a V4 drive on my yellow trike and did some testing. I am thrilled!

I pulled 8kw through it with no belt skip or any other drama. The system works well and is quiet.

The really cool part is the data I logged while testing the torque limiter! ------- I set the limiter to slip just before wheel spin which gave me a peak of 8kw. I ran the trike and pulled data from my HV160. The current ripple is what I was most interested in. To give you a quick education, the HV160 is designed for 3 volts of ripple. 4 volts is a bit touchy and hard on the FETs. 5 volts is a no-no. So, with that in mind, I pulled the data from my logger and was surprised. Without a torque limiter, it is not difficult to see 5 volt ripple peaks. However, with my limiter set to slip at 8kw, I saw one peak of 2.3 volts and nearly all the time it peaked at 1.2 volts! These torque limiters are the Cat's Meow! They are good for limiting wheelie tendency, limiting wheelspin on powerful setups, limiting current, and also reducing ripple. I cannot say enough about how good these findings are! I do not care if someone buys my drive or not. But, I can tell you, if you are running a chain drive setup, I HIGHLY recommend one of these torque limiters. They are phenominal tools for fine tuning.

Man, with these high torque belts, the torque limiter, skillful programming of the controller, and other little details, this trike is driving like something Honda would build. In fact, it has lost a bit of its "Raw" feeling and is tamed down, though still powerful. It runs 5 to 40mph in a touch over 3.5 seconds. So, it is what I would call a refined stallion. It is docile to drive and powerful when twisting the throttle, but not frightening. I am planning on letting as many people drive it as I can (those I trust) to get feedback from beginners as well as experienced.

Anyway, as I said, these torque limiters are fantastic! I cannot say enough good about them. They are a mechanical way to do what we have been trying to achieve electronically with our ESCs.

I have two trike customers (FFR trike customers) who are a bit heavy and have had issues with the drive systems due to the high weight. I sent them both torque limiters and they are back running problem free.

Matt

 

[Green Machine]

Mmmmmm

I gotta have one.

Sounds terrific.

Matt you got a link to motors you sell with these?

 

[recumpence]

The motors I sell are Astro Flight 3200 series motors (3210, 3215, and 3220). You can view them on Astro's web site.

Astro Flight custom makes these motors to my spec for my drive systems. I specify my requirements and they build what I ask for.

Matt

 

[SHiFT]

Matt,

I haven't had any luck contacting you lately, but would like to buy a kit from you please. (My email askes questions that are answered here, sorry I just found this thread)

Please pm or email me on gmail: citizenchan

I know I was in "planning" phase back in February, but I am ready to purchase now

Could you please message me your latest prices, including controller, throttle, etc. I'd also be interested in frame mounts, or torque arms if you have any of those kinds of goodies available.

Thanks,

SHiFT

And if you need any proof that I'm ready and waiting, I present to you my Santa Cruz Superlight -

 

[recumpence]

Hey Shift,

Sorry communication has not been great with me. Life has been crazy. I am here, though. Yes, the drive should fit there. Is the downtube round all the way down?



V4 drive status;

I have had a ton of orders for this new drive and motors, controllers, etc. The first production run is sold out. Most of those are shipped. I have (IIRC) 4 or 5 orders left to fill and ship before I go out of town for the weekend. I am waiting on torque limiters and bearings. So, I am doing all other work setting the drives up while I wait. For those who have orders pending, they are being configured now. Oh, lastly, I had to order different length belts. Some applications require one length and some require another. Unfortunately, the more common belt I am out of stock on. They are due in any day, however.

Man, I cannot believe the response to this new drive. There is, apparently, a pent up desire for a 3220 capable belt drive (I know, I know, there are those here will tell me "I told you so." and you would be correct!

Thanks for your patience, Guys. I have had precious few complaints regarding the wait time. Everyone has been really understanding.

Oh, keep your eyes peeled. There are some phenominal builds coming up using these drives.

Lastly, an exotic bike manufacturer (very small run manufacturer) has commissioned a custom drive for his bikes. That should be an incredible project. It is something I am really looking forward to building.

I think that is all for now.

Matt

 

[SHiFT]

Good to hear, busy is definitely a good thing.

In truth this is just a prototype for something I am planning which will hopefully be super awesome too.

CANT


WAIT

As to your question: Yes, the frame is round all the way down.

I'm interested in hearing more about this this secret drive project, though

Thanks, and I eagerly await my kit.

SHiFT

 

[vpolit]

Hello and Great Job,

Looks really fantastic, I'm interested in purchasing a unit... how's your stock?
Intend to start manufacturing high performance frames/complete bikes, would like to include electric/e-assist in there, perhaps with CVT on the back wheel (NuVinci). Still in CAD, but final product will be automated TIG welded steel frames. Would like to discuss working together to produce at our scale, which will increase with each subsequent batch. I'm in San Francisco and we have a lot of people waiting for an electric bike with some torque, I would love to see something capable of nice wheelie
Let me know where you're at, perhaps we can manufacture together (I have some CNC stuff to do also) and save some money perhaps. Also intend to engineer controller with high efficiency components, and microcontroller 'smarts'. Not satisfied with existing controllers, think we can do better!
My email is vpolit@gmail.com, hope to chat soon!

-Virgil

 

[recumpence]

A few items to consider;

#1 If you are talking about a sensorless controller, good luck. MANY people have tried and it would be tough to improve on the Castle Creations controllers we are using for sensorless RC stuff. It is not impossible, but would cost a lot to do. Sensored is another thing altogether.

#2 If you are looking for high production numbers, I can meet that with my parts. Getting a large number of motors from Astro Flight in a timely manor is tough. I would lean toward a different motor. I can get 3hp outrunners easily. If you are driving through the gears, that is plenty of power.

#3 I have worked with a number of small manufacturers. Out of around a dozen who have contacted me, only two remain and have actually put money toward development and products. This is a tough business. I am open to discussing anything, though.

Beyond that, I can tell you there is a market for E-bikes. There is a market for low end and high end bikes. There are many things to consider for production bikes, however. There are liability issues and various regulations for E-bikes in particular. So, be aware of that on the front end.

Fee free to contact me if you would like to talk further. Bear in mind, I am a mechanical designer/engineer, not an electronic guru. I am willing to contract my services, assuming you know my abilities and limitations.

Matt

 

[vpolit]

please give me a call. I think we can make something work here. I certainly admire your design and implementation. This is boutique numbers, but there's a market. Smart manufacturing is key, and obviously high performance In terms of the Electrical Engineering, don't sweat it, I have a background in motor control, its a fun problem set for me. I love electric vehicles, I intend to move to add features not present in current commercial offerings, and I approach this from a rider's experience

thanks!
Virgil Polit
630.670.6918
call anytime, today would be great too!