VESPAnomics

[Lock]

http://www.mint.com/blog/saving/vespanomics-04122011/

Rebuttal from Fox News:
http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2011/04/27/scooters-really-save-world/

Can Scooters Really Save the World?
By Richard Read

Published April 27, 2011 High Gear Media

You don't need to be a mathematician or a fortune-teller to figure out that most modern scooters are more eco-friendly than their four-wheeled kin. But can they really save the planet? A new infographic http://www.mint.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/110411-VESPA.png circulating across the web claims they can. Unfortunately, it doesn't tell the whole story.

The graphic compares operating costs, carbon footprints, and gasoline expenses for an average SUV, an average compact car, and a scooter (specifically, a Vespa). If you just look at the numbers, the winner seems pretty obvious: with annual expenses running less than $2,000, a fuel economy of 75 mpg, and average fill-ups costing under $9, the scooter comes out well ahead. There are also larger factors to consider, like the steep drop in gas Americans would consume if more folks switched to scooter transit.

It's hard to argue with stats like those, but we'll try.

Our first counter-point would be that the graphic was compiled by Vespa itself, not an objective third party surveying a wide range of scooters. That isn't to say that the data is intrinsically wrong, but in a case like this, we're always concerned about drawing clear lines between advertising puffery and indisputable facts. Caveat emptor.

Second, scooters face many of the same obstacles that EVs do in the marketplace, meaning that widespread adoption isn't likely. Sure, they're bright and shiny and fun, but just as EVs generate anxiety about range, scooters seem impractical for many consumers, given their limited passenger and cargo capabilities. Like EVs, they're best for folks in urban areas -- specifically, single folks and couples whose lifestyles fit the scooter model.

Third -- and perhaps most importantly -- gas-powered scooters are not zero-emissions vehicles. They may not pump out pollutants at the same rate as SUVs, but many of the two-stroke engines found on older models are pretty dirty.
http://green.autoblog.com/2006/08/1...lute-more-than-suvs-suvs-cleaner-than-scoote/

So, can scooters save the planet? Maybe.

We're not entirely sold on Vespa -- the company gets high marks for style, but they're often proprietary with maintenance and such. We're more intrigued by the electric scooters from Current Motors, which make emissions a non-issue. (FYI, Bob Lutz is a fan of theirs, too.http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/f19/bob-lutz-joins-electric-scooter-leadership-team-99131/) But whether you're a gas junkie or an EV enthusiast, if you're looking for a new, fuel-efficient way to get around and you don't have kids to schlep, you could probably do worse than moving to two

 

[REdiculous]

Seems like a reasonable little article to me. A scooter would be a great additional/fair-weather vehicle for a lot of people but I don't see it as a car replacement.

We're more intrigued by the electric scooters from Current Motors, which make emissions a non-issue.

They don't come out of the tailpipe but there are still emissions. Using the grid's average of 1.297lbs CO2 per kWh, Current Motor's 'Economy' scooter would produce about 2594lbs of CO2 every 20k miles where a 75mpg Vespa would produce about 5216lbs and a Nissan Leaf would produce approximately 8819lbs. :wink:

 

[neptronix]

It's hard to argue with stats like those, but we'll try.

Oh, fox.

Anyhow that's a cool graph. I think it applies to us too. Ebikes and scooters kinda go hand in hand. i think eBikes are more useful though.

Maybe i'll get around to making an infographic one day.

 

[number1cruncher]

Thanks for the cool graph Lock!

I used to ride a Honda scooter from 2002 - 2009. It actually got about 125mpg. I traded it to someone on ES for an ebike.

 

[Lock]

They don't come out of the tailpipe but there are still emissions. Using the grid's average of 1.297lbs CO2 per kWh, Current Motor's 'Economy' scooter would produce about 2594lbs of CO2 every 20k miles where a 75mpg Vespa would produce about 5216lbs and a Nissan Leaf would produce approximately 8819lbs. :wink:

Stick this in your comparison

I pay three cents per kWh extra and run on 100% wind/solar...
http://www.bullfrogpower.com/

...I suppose some sort of bio-fuel might be possible for the gas etc ICE machines but I find wall outlets more plentiful than fuel suppliers.

LocK

 

[REdiculous]

ebikes are better/cheaper since you go slower (if your bike is legal), you can pedal to conserve energy, and you don't need registration, license or insurance. Being allowed on most paths and trails is a big plus as well.

How many kWh would an "average" ebike use to go 20k miles? I think using the grid average is fine for a basic comparison but obviously the real emissions would vary depending on where you live and how your energy is produced. :wink:

 

[neptronix]

REdiculous, i calculated that an eBike going 20mph for 30 miles would use about 0.8kWh after charging inefficiencies, if you pedaled along moderately.

the eBike wins whatever efficiency contest you throw it at, as the human body is really inefficient.. generates a ton of waste heat and you only get ~20% of what you put in.

http://neptronix.org/posts/transportation_cost.html

 

[sk8norcal]

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=taipei&aq=&sll=37.29809,-121.933823&sspn=0.192543,0.353622&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Taipei+City,+Taiwan&ll=25.009084,121.507759&spn=0.099251,0.353622&z=12&layer=c&cbll=25.009221,121.507544&panoid=g9fm1AOBo-ErABlUlUerZg&cbp=12,326.26,,0,-2.28

 

[Lock]

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=taipei&aq=&sll=37.29809,-121.933823&sspn=0.192543,0.353622&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Taipei+City,+Taiwan&ll=25.009084,121.507759&spn=0.099251,0.353622&z=12&layer=c&cbll=25.009221,121.507544&panoid=g9fm1AOBo-ErABlUlUerZg&cbp=12,326.26,,0,-2.28

Man that's a lot of scooters!

 

[sk8norcal]

I been looking at Taipei on street view in HD,
so many scooters...

scooter parking is available in front of every building.

 

[REdiculous]

Thanks neptronix!

ebike; 691
escooter; 2594
scooter; 5216
ecar; 8819
30mpg car; 13,040
...lbs CO2 emitted per 20k miles.

Roughly. :wink: