VW 'Volkswagen Uses Software to increase Pollution'

[speedmd]

Who says that a clean running motor can not also be efficient. The two are not mutually exclusive. May not be cheap/easy to do in a cheaply made diesel, but they (VW) are the ones that promised something they knew they were not delivering. I am happy to see them all get crushed if they can not run clean enough to meet the spec and still get the mpg they originally promised. If they are a bit slower, I agree, that would not be a bad thing in general.

Cheating customers buy selling "clean" at a premium. Good one. I guess that is one way to look at sharing cost cutting with your customers. :lol:

 

[The fingers]

Found out today I'd rather be following behind a VW TDIdiesel than a big old stinky diesel school bus. :x

 

[Punx0r]

cannot blame a business for wanting to keep down costs for customers, minimize its costs, and maximise its returns to investors.
That is what Directors are employed to do.

It doesn't seem to have worked

Agree that there'll be a lot of opportunists getting involved in class-action lawsuits.

 

[speedmd]

cannot blame a business for wanting to keep down costs for customers, minimize its costs, and maximise its returns to investors.
That is what Directors are employed to do.

It doesn't seem to have worked

Agree that there'll be a lot of opportunists getting involved in class-action lawsuits.

Definitely a feeding frenzy with the blood in the water. Clearly the biggest automotive management blunder of modern times, so it is somewhat understandable and to be expected. They have hoisted themselves on their own petard promoting clean diesel. I can only see it as they have since admitted, a big mistake, trying to stem the hybrid /EV drive takeover. Now they all have religion, and ask for forgiveness. :lol: I don't think any of the other biggies are faultless in this regard either. Diesel school buses! The worst! In a few short years we will all look back at this time and wonder what the hell we were all thinking.

They want us to trust them now?
http://fortune.com/2015/10/22/now-volkswagens-newest-diesel-engines-are-under-suspicion/

 

[Chalo]

In a few short years we will all look back at this time and wonder what the hell we were all thinking.

That time will come when we let go of cars generally. Our descendants will rightly think of us as morally inferior for tolerating and supporting such a malignant and destructive method of transport.

 

[LockH]

This singling out of VW is only a net win if it results in fewer cars overall on the road.

Plus One watt he said!

Locally, have been trying to appeal to my neighboors pocketbooks/$$$.

Pointing out the growing list of "car free" towns and cities around the world. My theory that it can increase property values to ban or severely restrict the use of the private "car" ("minivan", "SUV", etc) in your own neighborhood. By making streets safer for animals... including young and old human folks. And as far as I know these vehicles are impossible to pedal (insert grin here) for warmth and for exercise, and even if bettery-electric powered, any large (heavy) vehicle consumes more energy to accelerate and go up hills, etc. (While acknowledging that they can injure/kill, but in a more "eco-friendly" way!) Stuff like if the engine exhaust pipes went into the passenger compartments... instead of exiting out the back such that folks drive around smelling each others stinky butts... like dogs like to do.

Anyway. Objective here is not to "upset" anybody but to leave them to wander off confused about their own "reality". (And make jokes about it.)


L

 

[speedmd]

VW gives up on diesels in the US. DAS gets it?

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/10/27/us-volkswagen-emissions-usa-idUSKCN0SL26820151027

Manslaughter charges possible.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/vw-emissions-scandal-volkswagen-could-face-corporate-manslaughter-charge-over-rigged-tests-a6710946.html

 

[Joseph C.]

VW gives up on diesels in the US. DAS gets it?

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/10/27/us-volkswagen-emissions-usa-idUSKCN0SL26820151027

Manslaughter charges possible.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/vw-emissions-scandal-volkswagen-could-face-corporate-manslaughter-charge-over-rigged-tests-a6710946.html

About time. The sooner diesels are linked with cancer the better.

And finally after that has sunk in people might start walking up and realise the risk they are running every time they fill up their cars with petrol. I see pregnant women the whole time filling their cars up oblivious to the dangers of benzene and obviously unaware of the rising incidents of leukaemia.

 

[Chalo]

The sooner diesels are linked with cancer the better.

All cars cause cancer. I bet even electric cars cause cancer with their plastics and confined air spaces, to say nothing of the manufacturing involved in their batteries and electronics, or the fossil fuel combustion that provides them with grid power.

But to see diesels as somehow worse than gasoline cars is truly willful obliviousness.

 

[TheBeastie]

VW gives up on diesels in the US. DAS gets it?
Manslaughter charges possible.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/vw-emissions-scandal-volkswagen-could-face-corporate-manslaughter-charge-over-rigged-tests-a6710946.html

That article says "Experts at Kings College London estimate around 5,800 premature deaths in the UK can be linked to diesel emissions from vehicles. "
Wow, if this many deaths were caused by nuclear power people would be tearing their hair out, but its perfectly OK when it comes from fossil fuels.

Also says "In the UK, 1.2 million affected cars will be recalled, starting in early 2016. A spokesperson for Volkswagen said ", VW really did sell a lot of dodgey cars didn't they. Especially concerning to have so many dodgey cars in a confined small area like UK.

 

[Chalo]

There probably are that many deaths or more that are attributable to nuclear technology, but you'll never find out which ones they are. That's the wonder of worldwide fallout! Everybody wins!

Anyway, cars are such inherently murderous machines that singling out any subset of modestly sized, highly efficient cars for special punishment is actually counterproductive, letting the real perps walk. Where's the talk of murder charges for the makers of the Suburban?

 

[Joseph C.]

All cars cause cancer. I bet even electric cars cause cancer with their plastics and confined air spaces, to say nothing of the manufacturing involved in their batteries and electronics, or the fossil fuel combustion that provides them with grid power.

But to see diesels as somehow worse than gasoline cars is truly willful obliviousness.

I agree with the first part. Even if electric car production is found to cause cancer and other health concerns these can be mitigated against. You can't do that for the general public. I'd settle for making diesel cars obsolete first and petrol cars next.

On the second point, research indicates that diesels emit far more harmful pollution at a local level than petrol cars.

 

[speedmd]

VW Reports First Quarterly Loss In This Century, At $1.8 Billion.
http://www.dw.com/en/volkswagen-books-first-quarterly-loss-in-15-years/a-18809689

Das have our attention?

Suburbans and poser pickups next? I'm in. Pay by the pound baby.

 

[Chalo]

[...]research indicates that diesels emit far more harmful pollution at a local level than petrol cars.

As built, maybe. But every time I get whacked with truly noxious fumes in my neighborhood, it's a gas car. Like I've said before, diesels tend to get pretty complete combustion or none at all; at worst they're sooty. There's no limit to how sickening a gas car can be, and still drag itself around.

People run cars until they won't run anymore. So their characteristics during that whole time count. Not just how they work when they're new and unmodified.

 

[speedmd]

Our state has emissions testing and will not allow inspection stickers for cars failing. Insurance / registrations get pulled also. There is talk of tightening the requirements as time goes on with existing cars on the road. You could always apply / get a waiver if it fails and the repairs are more than a certain percentage of the cars value.

The EU just took a logical step so they would not shut down the entire industry.
http://news.yahoo.com/eu-eases-diesel-car-emission-limits-despite-vw-171015963.html;_ylt=AwrC1CoIGjFW4Q0AMkTQtDMD;_ylu=X3oDMTByOHZyb21tBGNvbG8DYmYxBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDBHNlYwNzcg--

 

[liveforphysics]

Modern EV battery production uses all closed loop processes with ~100% solvent vapor collection and re-distillation. The energy used in manufacturing at most battery factories could be supplied entirely from solar on the roof of the factory, it's not nearly as much energy as some folks think.

Mining and refining the Cobalt is still ugly, but Cobalt is being rapidly phased out of next generation battery designs.

What we are witnessing with the VW event is an awakening and new awareness reaching the general sheeple public that the barbaric multi-ton infernal-contraptions that were insanely grandfathered into mass acceptance are the cause of MILLIONS of otherwise avoidable death and pointless massive scale suffering of a massive range of living beings.

VW and diesels are merely the first steps of each individual recognizing every product sold with a tail pipe as dangerous defective goods. If any product sprays thoroughly proven cancer causing and mutigenic toxins into the lungs of the beings around it, it won't remain socially acceptable for long once the millions of folks currently dying from it awaken as to why.

ATB,
-Luke

 

[Chalo]

Texas has emissions testing too, for cars less than 25 years old or something like that. But I can confirm that there are plenty of cars running out there that would not pass any emissions test. Some of them are old, some hot rodded, and others just malfunctioning. Just like EPA standards don't keep cars in compliance once they're sold, state inspections don't in fact keep stinkers off the road.

Anyway, given the choice I'll ride my bike behind a 1970s Mercedes diesel rather than behind a 1970s Detroit pickup every time. (But I'd like it best if they all had to be parked outside the city limits and left there.)

 

[speedmd]

Rust takes them much sooner fortunately in our parts.

 

[speedmd]

EPA: VW cheated on Audi, Porsche diesel SUVs, too!

This will not end well for diesels.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2015/11/02/epa-diesel-suv-volkswagen-audi-porsche/75044132/
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/03/b...to-have-emissions-cheating-software.html?_r=0

 

[speedmd]

VW appears to be in a death spiral. Looses top/key talent.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015...-eu-idUSKCN0SV1MR20151106#kEHHi7Q81EApic7E.97
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/11/06/us-volkswagen-emissions-eu-idUSKCN0SV1MR20151106#kEHHi7Q81EApic7E.97

CO2 fail? Cheating on millage figures? Most likely to drag down most all the ICE car brands if found to be cheating badly.
http://arstechnica.com/cars/2015/11...cars-may-have-false-co2-emissions-levels-too/

 

[The fingers]

http://www.automotive-fleet.com/cha...tdi-reaches-81-mpg-on-cross-country-trip.aspx Ahhh.......the good old days before the fall.
Volkswagen's 2015 Golf TDI clean-diesel compact car reached 81.17 mpg on a trip across 48 states on its way to setting a Guinness World Records achievement for non-hybrid fuel economy.
Drivers traveled 8,233.5 miles in 16 days and spent $294.98 on 101.43 gallons of Shell Diesel fuel during the trip. The previous record was 77.99 mpg, and the hybrid record is 74.34 mpg, according to a VW release.
The Golf TDI left Volkswagen of America’s headquarters in Herndon, Va., on June 22 and returned on July 7 after visiting all of the contiguous states.
Wayne Gerdes, automotive journalist and founder of cleanmpg.com, was the primary driver. His co-driver was Bob Winger, an electronics engineer long involved in energy and conservation projects. Gerdes is an expert hypermiler who has set mileage records in more than 100 vehicles, according to Volkswagen.

 

[Chalo]

CO2 fail? Cheating on millage figures? Most likely to drag down most all the ICE car brands if found to be cheating badly.
http://arstechnica.com/cars/2015/11...cars-may-have-false-co2-emissions-levels-too/

Um, somebody is confused. CO2 emission is always a simple function of fuel consumption, unless you're blowing masses of unburned fuel out the tailpipe (which correctly functioning cars don't do). The more fuel you burn, the more CO2.

Maybe they meant CO and just don't understand what they're writing about?

 

[speedmd]

Volkswagen's 2015 Golf TDI clean-diesel compact car reached 81.17 mpg on a trip across 48 states on its way to setting a Guinness World Record

All things involving VW are now suspect! :lol: They most likely cheated. :?

CO2 emission is always a simple function of fuel consumption

Yes, that is the way I read is the concern. They are burning much more fuel when not on test mode.

More bad news. Chief Designer de Silva quits. http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/news/a27275/volkswagen-design-chief-de-silva-has-quit-report/

 

[Chalo]

CO2 emission is always a simple function of fuel consumption

Yes, that is the way I read is the concern. They are burning much more fuel when not on test mode.

.

That's inconsistent with the observation that end users get better fuel economy than testers did. Fuel consumption equals CO2 emission. You can't get better gas mileage and make more CO2.

 

[speedmd]

You have it right. They claim more mpg then they actually get on the road. Just like everyone else does. Lower CO2 and better fuel economy during testing than on the road. Just google latest news on "vw co2" and there are dozens of well written articles on it. Big trouble.