What would you recommend?

[Tiresias]

Hello everybody,

I intend to build my beach cruiser bicycle into an electric one. First of all, I tought of buying me a PERM 132 (this brand is from my neighbourhood country). The problem is that is forbidden to have such a powerful electric bicycle in Switzerland. So I decided to buy me a hub motor. Which one is the best? I want to build myself a realy quick and with a lot of torque beach cruiser. I`m between Crytalite, the new BMC isn`t available, Cyclone, Heinzmann (UK) ...

An other problem is that all these motors are made for max. 48V. I`m thinking of 72V 20AH. Does this work? Which controller would you recommend? Where is the best place to buy online?
Have these motors a higher W output with 72V than with 48V?

Thank you very much for answering the questions.


Greetings from Switzerland

Tiresias

 

[Link]

A PMG would be overkill for a cruiser, for sure. Lack of suspension would be a killer with that much power. Possibly in the literal sense.

A Crystalyte 530X will handle 72V fine, and is pretty much the only way to go if speed and power is the goal.

 

[Tiresias]

Thank you for answering.

Where yould you buy it online?

 

[dogman dan]

Theses days whoever has it in stock. Just do a search and ask em. The big chrystalite motor, sometimes called the phoenix, takes the big volts the best. Smaller ones get hotter faster. That motor at 48v is about as fast as you want to go on a bike, and trying to peadal along will be a joke. But if you want to go to the mountains the geared motors are the ticket.

 

[Drunkskunk]

Now thats a nice bike!

A 530X on 48 volts isn't worth it, IMHO, as a 40X at 72 volts would preform the same, and be lighter.

For maximum torque you want a geared motor. a 1000 watt cyclone and a custom built gear set has the potential to give you the most torque of all these setups.

But if you realy want torque, forget a 20 amp controller. even at 72 volts, thats going to be fairly mild compared to the potential of the motors you listed. a 5305 at 80 amps would feel more powerfull than a anything else at 20 amps.

 

[dogman dan]

I should shut up about anything but WE stuff. I just thought he would have a cooler running motor with the big x5. He will have heat problems if he climbs too much hills. But I live in the desert so I think heat. Smoked one motor in less than 400 miles.

 

[Tiresias]

You are great! Thank you for supporting me so good.
The construction for the Cyclone is much more difficult. So I prefer the hub version.

I`m very happy, you made the descision much easier! I `m thinking of ordering these parts:

- Crystalyte 5305 rear hub motor
- Controller 72V 40A
- Battery meter
- Spokes for the wheel 24
- Thumb throttle
- Battery Cable
- Rim Strips
- Anderson Powerpole 45A Contact
- Cruise Control


Coasts without batterys 850 US Dollars.

I hope to make a good deal with the batterys

 

[MitchJi]

Hi,

Being from Switzerland I assume good hill climbing is important. If so I would go with a Geared Rear Hub Motor. Heinzmann or BMC are the choices I'm familiar with. Heinzmann USA recommended using a Curtis Controller for running a Heinzmann at 48v, not sure about 72v but I think 48v would be more than adequate on that (no suspension) bike. You might be able to get a better price on Heinzmann in Europe than in the U.S.

Aside from great hill climbing the quality of Heinzmann (and I believe BMC) is much better than Xlyte.

For a nice BMC build check here (performance below is at 66v):
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=4506

by fitek on Tue Jun 10, 2008 10:07 am
Jonathan let me ride this bike the past weekend and it is amazingly fast. 32mph uphill! And it out accelerated cars quite easily.

Top speed for me was 35 mph on flat no wind. fitek reported something like 37 mph but I think it's down the small gradient.

Check here for Xlyte Hub quality (actually lack of quality):
http://ebikes.ca/troubleshooting.shtml

Problems we have Encountered with Crystalyte Systems

Finally if you want a powerful lightweight solution (more work than a Cyclone) consider RC Components. Here is one build (24v!):
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5156

OK so I've hit 52mph - who does this for real!!!!

Continued here:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=5168

Scotts 5th - uh 6th build! now with a video - sorta!

 

[kbarrett]

You can buy heinzmanns in Germany:
http://www.estelle.de/e/motoren.asp

The geared Heinzmanns will be more efficient ... Crystalyte 530x motors will be faster and more powerful, but at a cost of high Ah usage.

C'lyte 40x motors would be a bit more efficient, but the 408 and 4011 motors required for hills will be a lot slower.

A 1000W Puma geared would blow all of these away ... but will be a bit spendy.

If you want real power, get a multi-horsepower ATEK, and put it on a 100cc motorcycle frame.

 

[Tiresias]

A Heinzmann seems to be the right thing to ride my bike in Switzerland (its quite hilly). But is the gear strong enough to take 72V? I haven`t found the 1000W Puma. Who does it sell?


To everybody: Your great! Thanks for answering my questions!

 

[Tiresias]

I bought a second bike for my girlfriend. Same project as for the first one.

 

[MitchJi]

Hi Tiresias,

A Heinzmann seems to be the right thing to ride my bike in Switzerland (its quite hilly). But is the gear strong enough to take 72V?

I just talked to someone today who developed and produced a high end Ebike. He used Heinzmann's for quite a while and told me its very strong. I think he used the phrase "bullet proof". He said he ran 70 amps through it at 36v and said he thinks it would run forever.

So unless you run some insane amps through it a 72v I think it will be fine.

 

[Tiberius]

Hi Tiresias,

You should think about what it the steepest hill you have to climb, and what speed you want to go. The power and speed limits for legal e-bikes in the USA are much higher than in Europe, and most of the suggestions you have received will put you over even the USA limits.

(I think Switzerland has an extra category for fast e-bikes, but a X-lyte 5xxx at high voltage will put you outside that too.)

If you are happy with that, then OK, but you may have to register the bikes as electric motorcycles, or only use them off road, or be very careful. You can actually get good results at much lower power.

The X-lytes are direct drive. They will only be good at hill climbing if you put them in small wheels and/or throw insane current into them and then climb the hill at 30 kph. They are inefficient at lower speeds. For hill climbing at moderate speeds you need a geared motor, or a different drive system

I thought I should point out that difference between the USA and the European scene, just so you are informed. I have both a geared motor and a X-lyte myself. Which part of Switzerland are you in?

Nick

 

[Tiresias]

I live in the northern part of Switzerland, 30km from Zurich. Our language is Swiss-German (a special dialect of German). It`s quite hilly everywhere and so the top speed isn`t the most important thing espacially without any suspension. The photo shows a few old houses (built in 16th century). I will show you more when I`m at home an can take some good photos.

So I think Heinzmann or BMC are my first choice!

PS: My bike doesn`t have to be road legal. I will build a "kill" switch if the police is coming, I can recude speed and torque.. . We have so many restricions, it`s not funny! Top speed for pedelecs is 25km/h

 

[Tiresias]

Which controller should I buy for my Heinzmann hub and 72v 20Ah LifePo batteries? Continous Ampere rate shouldn`t be higher than 40A.

Kellycontrollers have almost no description, so I really don`t know what to order.

 

[MitchJi]

Which controller should I buy for my Heinzmann hub and 72v 20Ah LifePo batteries? Continous Ampere rate shouldn`t be higher than 40A.

Kellycontrollers have almost no description, so I really don`t know what to order.

Hi,

I'd start a separate thread with the question in the title.

 

[Tiresias]

Dear friends

thank you very much for supporting my first Ebike project. The first ride was on the last sunday afternoon. My wife was very happy about her new built eCruiser! The first run was just with 24v. But today a ran it with 48v which was much more fun. Some pics of the before the test run.
I will change the color of the bicycle and fix all the cables better.
At the moment I am very happy that all parts fit together!
I think the top speed is around 30km/h. The climbing ability is good but less quick than I thought it would be.

Built in parts and costs in CHF including shipping:

Geared Hub Heinzmann (36v 500w model) 610 Fr.
Bring the hub into the wheel 200 Fr.
Controller from Kelly 340 Fr.
LifePo Batteries 2x 24v/20ah 800 Fr.
Small parts 100 Fr.
____________________

All in all the costs are around 2050 Fr. which is 1800 Dollar

It`s a lot of money just for fun.

 

[Tiresias]

The pics of the ecruiser:

 

[Tiresias]

Hey guys

you helped me a lot. My eCruiser has already done more than 500 Miles without a single problem.


But one question is still unanswered: How or where have installed the main power switch to turn off the contoller in times when you doesn`t need the cycle? I have a brushed Heinzmann, two 24v 20ah LifePO and a Kellycontrolls Controller. Have you built a in relay between battery cable and controller? I haven`t found a relais which can handle so much voltage...

Is there an other possibility?

The thing is that I really need a switch to turn the main current off.


Has someone an idea?

Thanks!

Greetings from Switerland

 

[Drunkskunk]

the best way is to unplug the battery. that avoids any parisitic losses from the controler.

Switches that handle high current aren't cheap, and it needs to be made for DC.
But there is 1 option a few hetre have used.


Its called a battery cut off switch. its used for racecars to kill the whole electricaal system.
http://gemstreetrods.com/Electrical.htm

 

[Tiresias]

A few pics of my El-Lupo Cruisers: