Wheelchair with Handcycle

[999zip999]

A three speed switch use it on 2 and 1 for reverse and 3 for hills. Use throttle to adjust speed. Having fun. A C.A. can adjust amps. A programmable controller ( I wouldn't know how but have program cable ). Meaning I don't know what's it for.

 

[spdas]

Aloha, I am not too concerned with spinout as I can feather the throttle as long as the controller is smooth and progressive.

A friend of mine is giving me his setup. 1000w motor @ 80volts and 80 volt battery @8ah. and contoller. Hopefully I can tone it down a bit as I do not need 40mph!

francis

 

[999zip999]

Yet

 

[e-beach]

Aloha, I am not too concerned with spinout as I can feather the throttle as long as the controller is smooth and progressive.

A brushless controller is the smoothest way. Sine wave controllers are the smoothest.

A friend of mine is giving me his setup. 1000w motor @ 80volts and 80 volt battery @8ah. and controller. Hopefully I can tone it down a bit as I do not need 40mph!

80 volts...... 8) You are going to have an awesome chair!

Just be sure that the dropouts are good and sturdy so you don't twist the motor out of them. Without torque arms it could make for a hard landing. Figure out if you need torque arms for your dropouts. What's recommend around here are two dropouts for front wheel drive e-bikes, one per side. I run one per side on my front wheeled e-bike.

 

[spdas]

Aloha, here is what I am starting with. I have
1) 2x36v Lithium 8ah in series to 72-80v
2) Kelly KBS72121X,55A,24-72V, MINI BRUSHLESS DC CONTROLLER http://kellycontroller.com/kbs72121x55a24-72v-mini-brushless-dc-controller-p-529.html
3) 36v 350watt hub motor on 16" rim
4) later I will lace the 1000w motor I got to a 18" rim after I test out/burn out the 350w one and see what more or less rpm/fun I need.
5) Oh ya, I got a Craigs BMX 16" used bike to get the heavy duty forks with shocks to mount my new wheelchair electric pod.
Now just need the time to get it rolling.

I am thinking trying setting the controller to limit to 48v and 20amps

What would you sent the motor temp to be?
What Cycle Anaylist model would you recommend to display as many of the Kelly controller features?

Any more suggestions?
yes I know I am WAY over my noobie budget of $400.00 !! :lol: :lol:

Francis

 

[spdas]

Aloha, I am looking for an "over the center adjustable clamp" like in the photo. Anyone have an idea where to get one for my build? thanks
Francis

 

[adriftatsea]

Aloha, I am looking for an "over the center adjustable clamp" like in the photo. Anyone have an idea where to get one for my build? thanks
Francis

Depending on the application, I've found 'Quick Fist' style clamps a good alternative after trying the clamshell style. They are quite popular in the 4x4 world for holding jacks and other heavy gear.

 

[cwah]

Aloha, I am looking for an "over the center adjustable clamp" like in the photo. Anyone have an idea where to get one for my build? thanks
Francis

Depending on the application, I've found 'Quick Fist' style clamps a good alternative after trying the clamshell style. They are quite popular in the 4x4 world for holding jacks and other heavy gear.

aaah loooks cool

 

[spdas]

Aloha, I am looking for an "over the center adjustable clamp" like in the photo. Anyone have an idea where to get one for my build? thanks
Francis

The clamps will probably need to made from metal and quite strong and more finely adjustable. As in the photo enclosed, the clamps will be used to clamp the motor pod to a wheelchair, so there is a fair bit of stress and torque on the clamp itself, to avoid slipping on the wheelchair tube.
thanks
Francis

 

[tomjasz]

search, adjustable clamp tubing lever, and view images. Try other combinations. Look at as many pictures as you can fro each search. You'll find what you want.

Add any other relevant terms that would technically describe the parts purpose or intent.

Good luck. I reached a bit and found a clamp I had never seen that is useful to me.

 

[spdas]

Aloha, all. For Li-ion or Li-poly, does "opportunity charging" count as a cycle? Example--if the battery is rated at 1000 cycles, does charging for say, after one AH is used count as a cycle?
If so, then is it then advisable to charge only went your battery is depleted 85-90%?

thanks
Francis

 

[kdog]

Not really, but it all adds up in the end. A 'cycle' is defined by the cell manufacturer and is generally a full discharge and recharge. Cycle life is rated on this. Look up the data sheet on your cells if you know which type they are.
Generally for long cycle life don't discharge below 80% and charge only before use if you can. Don't store fully charged-roughly half full is good for storage, and keep them in a cool place.
Cycle life can be prolonged further by charging only to 90% but this can run into balancing issues and you will prob need to manually adjust your charger.
K

 

[aroundqube]

https://endless-sphere.com/w/index.php/Battery_Deterioration

 

[dogman dan]

Better to charge when convenient. FWIW, none of my batteries ever died of "cycles" It's either abuse kills it early, or my warm climate kills them in about 3 years, whether used or not.

You aren't in Vancouver, so expect about 3 years max from your battery.

When convenient, charge it. But if you plan to not ride it for a day or more, then charge it to half way full or so, then finish charging when ready to ride.

 

[ColinB]

From what I understand, and I'm no expert, most batteries are rated like this:

Full discharge: 100 cycles
80% discharge: 200 cycles
30% discharge: 1000 cycles.

It is a variable thing, so topping up your bike during a ride isn't a bad thing. The extra "cycle" may be bad for your pack, but it may be better than getting into a full discharge situation. Does that make sense, or am I thinking along the wrong lines here?

Colin

 

[dogman dan]

Those numbers would be for lead, btw.

Lead, always keep it all the way full. If you can charge it at work, do it!!!

Lithium is not so good to keep all the way full. NO WAY the extra cycle harms the battery though. It's just sitting in a hot garage fully charged that is not so good for lithium.

Lithium, store at 50-80 % is good. But if you will leave a bms equipped lithium pack in storage for a long time, best to start out with it 100% full, unless you disconnect the bms. And keep in a cool but not frozen place.

 

[Ykick]

Based on many years use I believe full charge (or even slightly overcharged) is not a major lithium cell killer while in immediate service. In fact, I think less time spent discharging at lower SOC (state of charge) the better. Or at least cooler.

The main thing is to avoid sitting for any length of time (12-24hrs or more) with cells near full charge.

Top it off if you’re gonna burn it off. If you're gonna be sitting a while, leave it low SOC...

 

[John in CR]

Rated battery cycle lives are estimated using a machine that repetitively takes cells from full voltage to minimum voltage and back with short pauses at each end of the cycle. Once capacity diminishes to 80% of original, that's the cycle life. That's not a good representation of real world use, and it turns out that the primary cause of shortened battery life is heat.

Heat comes in a variety of forms. One is high ambient temperature, the best example of which is the Nissan Leafs sold in Arizona, whose battery capacity reduced faster than expected. With an ebike don't make a habit of parking your bike in full sun all day, especially with the sun shining directly on a dark color battery container.

The other source of heat is current flowing through your battery during use and during charging, and those cycle life tests heat the batteries up pretty good. Batteries have resistance, and lower power cells have greater internal resistance than high power cells. The heat generated is calculated as Current squared time resistance. Also, at lower SOCs the internal resistance of the battery increases, so running them to deep discharge makes them hotter. Internal resistance also increases with age as well as with temperature.

I don't know the chemistry of what happens, but leaving a battery sitting for long periods at max charge ages the batteries faster. I visualize voltage as pressure and leaving a battery at max pressure causes leakage between the many layers in a battery. Because it's more convenient I always charge when I get home, but my batteries are never noticeably warm when I charge them, and I've noticed the impact to be minimal. Battery manufacturers recommend storage at about 50% SOC, so the effect is real.

Ebike batteries can last many times longer than their rated cycle life if they are treated well. The best way to treat them well is to never get them hot, so:
1. Use a bigger pack than the minimum required in terms of current rating as well as capacity.
2. Avoid deep discharges.
3. Wait for them to cool down before charging.
4. Don't leave them in the sun for long periods.

To answer the original question, as long as your battery pack isn't already pretty warm, opportunity charging has almost no ill effect on cycle life. OTOH the increase in freedom and range is awesome, and it also promotes ebike awareness, so grab those opportunity charges whenever it's convenient.

 

[999zip999]

Most people leave and forget their bike battery and it drains the three cells controlling the bms and the battery dies.
Charge your battery and ride your bike often. Stored ebikes die.

 

[zener]

Optimums for li-ion type batteries is:

Charge to 80% slow
Discharge not under 10%

The lower the discharge rate the better. E.G. for a 20A rated 25R cell 5A peak would mean very long cycles.

Avoid temperatures over 40`C and under 10`C . Use insulation in winter and fans in summer.

When not use charge to 10% to 20% and disconnect everything also the BMS than store in cold room or refrigerator.

 

[999zip999]

80% charging is fine if balance. This is needed to know as a bad cell can cause problems if a cell in a parallel string goes wonkiers and keep charging. You feel the pack having lower power if you are sensitive.
I would like a set of sense wires for cell checker to see over time. Or remember to fully charge for the bms every so often. A singalab style bms with leds would help.

 

[dogman dan]

Kind of impossible to really accurately balance at 80%. I still say the harm of charging to 100% for the purpose of an accurate balance once in a while is minimal, if you discharge it immediately. And better to charge to 100%, then ride immediately, than use the last 20% every ride.

Re some of Johns comments. Battery tests for cycle life include virtually no time stored at full charge. This could help explain, along with hot climate, why my personal best cycle life for "2000 cycle" lifepo4 is 700 cycles. At that time, I needed my bike fully charged all the time, for a daily commute. so it was spending 50% of each 24 hours full. 2 cycles a day, and I needed 100% charge to make it home.

I long gave up counting cycles and worrying. Now I'm just trying not to leave batteries longer than a few hours at full charge, and happy as a clam in sewage if I get two really good years, and two more so so years out of a particular battery pack. Now that I work at home, I tend to charge to about 90%, then I can top up quickly when I decide to ride. If the trip will be short, then no need to top up for that trip.

It's good to not discharge to 0%, but that is because you don't have to balance as much if you don't force them off the cliff. If you must do that, and sometimes I do, riding slower at the end of the discharge will heat the battery less. The less you cook the cells the better. THAT IS FACT.

 

[999zip999]

Just saying a set of extra sense wires makes sense to me. Had them on my old ping 48v 20ah, makita and A123 20ah 24s ( 738 cycles and counting ) packs for use with a cellog.
Sense wires ! Got to have them now. Thinking of hanging some from my cell phone

 

[spdas]

Aloha, all. I have most of the components here for my wheelchair pod build (or almost here) and frame built, 16" laced and noticed one thing!!
There are a kajillion different wire connectors (male or female) and mostly none are a direct hookup.

What does everyone here do for wiring?

1) cut, solder shrinkwrap?
2) source adaptors?
3) is there a kit of adaptors commonly used? (wishful thinking)

I do not want to mess with the motor q100h "din-type" 9 pin plug.
I have the Kelly controller, shunt, for cycle analysis, q100 motor, throttle and battery connections with Turngy batteries

Suggestions?

 

[spdas]

Maybe you just need to run your motor on more volts, to get the speed you need. Get a controller that goes from 36 to 72v, and then start experimenting.

Not too strong a controller though so you don't fry your current motor, perhaps this one. http://www.ebikes.ca/shop/ebike-parts/controllers/c7225-nc.html

It could also be paired with a cycleanalyst, allowing you to also control max amps, if your motor starts heating up too much, turn amps down.

Note the controller runs sensored and sensorless. Yes, brushless motors can run without the halls, but sensored operation is best.

Aloha, I am doing the build now. Ebikes suggested NOT using thie controller c7225-nc, since I am using a 16" rim and will need high rpm's, saying this controller does not handle high rpm's well.
I took your suggestion and (his) and will use my Kelly controller and bought the shunt.
Now figuring out how to wire and adapt the many different wire connectors....whew.

Francis