Which is more reliable: 50 cc moped or an electric bike?

[morph999]

Which do you think would break down less? A median priced moped or a top-of-the-line DIY electric bike? The electric bike has lifepo4 batteries.

 

[dogman dan]

The ebike would be more reliable, or at least is more reliable than the motobecane I had in 1976. But maybe they have improved the mopeds. My motobecane used to vibrate itself to peices despite all the locktite and epoxy I used on the bolts. It was great for 2 mile trips, but a 10 mile trip required a few stops to tighten up a few things. Mostly either the carb or the exhaust kept falling off, and I learned to always carry spare bolts and nuts. My ebikes, though, have been known to go 2000 miles with virturally zero maintenance besides a few brake adjustments. Of course the ebike is limited in it's use by a few things, high watts leading to hot hubmotors, high c rates hammering batteries, etc. A well thought out ebike used within it's performance envelope should easily go 5-10 thousand miles.

Once you upgrade the gasser to about 90-125cc the problems seem to diminish greatly. I drove a honda 125 for three years with nearly zero maintenance.

 

[liveforphysics]

Aprilia RS50.

49.7cc engine makes it a scooter/moped type vehicle rather than a motorcycle.

Under 200lbs.

Unlimited brakeing.

Increadible handling.

It will make 10-14hp continously for hours cruising down the freeway.

The bike will last 10's of thousands of miles with nothing but a a new ring/piston/sleeve kit every 5,000miles or so.

They are pretty damn cheap if you can find one! I've seen them go as low as $1,000 here in the Seattle area. I just browsed for 2mins to find a few on craigslist in the 1,500-2,500 area. Here is an example
http://humboldt.craigslist.org/mcy/1638291119.html

Here are some videos of people having fun stunting with them. Pretty much any low speed stunting that a superbike can do, and RS50 can do, and it's legally considdered to be a scooter/moped, so you don't need to be licenced or anything.

[youtube]A_moGXKIHR8[/youtube]


[youtube]YtePebFwFIo[/youtube]

 

[dogman dan]

Yeah, from the look of that, mopeds HAVE improved since 1976. I got thousands of miles out of my motobecane, but it got to be a pain bolting stuff on every few miles. I've seen some pretty crappy scooter type mopeds around here, always for sale. But a quality one, maybe a honda should be better. Those crappy ones are strictly chinese like my roketta. It's pretty crappy but it's run ok for a few thousand miles.

State laws vary, in NM for instance you have to have a drivers licence to ride a moped, but not a motorcycle endorsemet. So no moped for the DUI guy. And an ebike in NM is a moped by definition. So here you have to have a valid drivers licence to ride any motor assisted bicycle. But the bike does not have to have a tag, or lights, etc. Of course, for any of this to matter, you'd have to find a cop that gave a shit.

One other thing though, when the gas moped breaks down, there IS somebody in town that can fix it. Not always the case with an ebike.

 

[maydaverave]

Well a scooter from piaggio(aprillia,vespa)honda,yamaha, basically any of the big guys cost over two grand and are very reliable. On the other hand a thousand dollar ebike will run a thousand dollar chinese scooter into the ground. 8)

 

[maydaverave]

Aprilia RS50.

49.7cc engine makes it a scooter/moped type vehicle rather than a motorcycle.

Under 200lbs.

Unlimited brakeing.

Increadible handling.

It will make 10-14hp continously for hours cruising down the freeway.

The bike will last 10's of thousands of miles with nothing but a a new ring/piston/sleeve kit every 5,000miles or so.

They are pretty damn cheap if you can find one! I've seen them go as low as $1,000 here in the Seattle area. I just browsed for 2mins to find a few on craigslist in the 1,500-2,500 area. Here is an example
http://humboldt.craigslist.org/mcy/1638291119.html

That bike is just begging for some lipo and a couple of rc motors

 

[morph999]

I've never seen the Aprilia. That looks like something I'd like to buy. I hit a big pothole with my e-bike and was surprised that no damage occurred. Ebikes.ca must do a good job of putting their hub motors together. It got me wondering how long my bike would last. I think I'm going to keep my bike 20 mph or under because I want it to last a long time.

 

[FeralDog]

HONDA 49cc .... #1 all-round answer = like this http://powersports.honda.com/2009/ruckus.aspx

Almost all Chinese 49cc's are rip-offs of the old Honda Z-50's. . I see CraigsList Chinese stuff overflowing on the internet, quality is a wild swing , parts fall off a lot on Chinese mopeds. Get plenty tubes of Loctite.
I

 

[mwkeefer]

At 200lbs - not much of that in motor... I wouldn't think normal eBike parts would be worthwhile onboard... the ROI would be minimal...

I can't tell the frame size but it looks small... I had a Ninja 250 and it was like big guy riding a little mag light, very uncomfortable... if the frame on that bike is long enough I suppose that by tossing all the heaviest parts you could build a sick eBke/eMotorCycle... actually the curb weight isn't bad (if it's big enough) as a starting point considering most eBikes are rated with a 200-240lb person in mind and I am a mere 160... Still the power requirement would be akin to a tandem eBike - just much cooler looking and I suppose the aerodynamics of such a bike would reduce the power requirement at top end speeds to some extent over that of a normal eBike and rider...

If I could find one for a G here in the Phila area, I'd consider it (again - if it's big enough for my 6'1").

Reliable? I guess it depends on who builds it... personally I would think that once Recumpence, Miles, LiveForPhysics, Hyena, Methods and dozens of others (including myself) were done toying about with a build and put the finishing touches on... the eBike may be as reliable as a 50cc moped. If were talking major vendors like schwin and the rest, forget it... the moped wins - same goes with normal users and kits, the forums are proof of that... we all screw up to get the experience to build a competent and reliable ebike, from water proofing, weight distribution, redundancy and nearly every other aspect of a build. The big leagues aren't there yet (major brand names) with quality and honestly I truly feel most DIY kits are superior if they come with readable (ie: english or pictoral) instructions and proper cautions (torque arms, washers, etc).

Sorry for the blowhard answer - but it's not clear cut, it truly depends on price range and expectation - oh, do you consider LiPo or other batteries as consumables like Petro or Gasoline? I am taking this view and averaging their life over time vs investment against cost of fuel over time..

-Mike

 

[liveforphysics]

More reliable, based on long term experience = HONDA 49cc .... #1 all-round answer = like this http://powersports.honda.com/2009/ruckus.aspx

Yep. A ruckus is something I would absolutely trust my life to on any trip, even driving across country. Those things are 100% rock solid. Not a great performer, but gets around town just fine. Loads of guys use them for pitbikes at the track, beat the piss out of them constantly, never even considder maintenance on them, and they happily run like new for 10s of years.

Like you mentioned, there is a HUGE difference in quality and reliability between the China clones of the honda bikes, and the real Honda bikes. The problem is, the real Honda bikes cost about as much at 5 of the China bikes, and even though it will outlast 5-10 of the China bikes, it's still tough to swallow the initial cost. lol

 

[dogman dan]

I made the assumption that Morph was talking about the chinese mopeds. My french one sucked, even though it had a reputable name.
But honda anything can be trusted to last quite awhile.

 

[Drunkskunk]

My old Honda Aero from when I was a kid was nearly bulletproof. It survived me being 14-16 and 10,000 miles of young dumb teenager.

I currently have a Peugeot moped. its reliable enough with constant maintance and a few modern parts, and survived a season of Moped Polo. I have to stress the constant maintance part, but its far more reliable than any of the chinese mopeds or pocket bikes that got used by the others in the league.

My Ebike is very reliable now, but its not as reliable as my old honda, doesn't have the range, and can't be used, then left alone untill needed again.

 

[spinningmagnets]

Back when gas spiked over $4 a year or so ago, there was a surge of college students buying $799 Chinese 50-cc scooters. They are absolute crap, and performed poorly, didn't last at all. I followed this with interest because I wanted my son to go to college and he had just gotten his license suspended for a year (which is what deepened my interest in unlicensed E-bikes).

We were about to buy a used high-quality Yamaha Zuma 50-cc (no license required in that city), and he joined the military.

On a side note, I liked the larger-framed Chinese 150-cc scooters, because when the engine died, they could be had very cheap as a donor for an electric conversion. The 150-cc had front/rear disc brakes, larger diameter wheels, tubeless tires.

Between an ICE scooter and an E-bike, reliability depends solely on the quality of the components....they can BOTH be reliable, or both could be crapola.

 

[morph999]

my e-bike is holding up pretty well so far.

 

[maydaverave]

I like smallish two wheeled vehicles for my main transportation. I have had a 450 and a 250cc motorcycle, and a 50cc and 250cc scooter. I prefer scooters to motorcycles for everyday driving in traffic but by far I prefer driving my ebike to a scooter, especially a 50cc scooter. My 250cc scooter is a piaggio bv250 which does about 85mph and beats most cars to 60mph. It is reliable but needs about 300 dollars in tires every three thousand miles, an eighty dollar belt every eight thousand miles, and a eighteen dollar oil filter every three thousand miles. A 50cc scoot has much cheaper tires but the one I had needed constant work. Take apart the carb every couple hundred miles, rebuild the top end every 2,000 miles, new brakes, new belts, new rollers weights and so on. Also driving a small scooter in traffic is a nightmare while driving a ebike is an enjoyable stress reliever. I have a simple setup that always starts right up and needs virtually no maintenance (once I replaced wallmart bike parts with real bike parts). I put about a hundred miles on my ebike to every mile I put on my bv250 8)

 

[deronmoped]

Moped=

1) 50 CC or under.
2) 2 HP or under.
3) 30 MPH or less.
4) Have to be able to pedal like a bicycle.

I have owned like 25 mopeds and a few scooters, still own 11 mopeds. Mopeds vary in quality, with most being pretty reliable. You have all the regular maintenance, tires, brakes, oiling chains/cables... The clutches last thousands of miles, more or less depending on if you pedal from a stop. The belt drive ones go through belts every several thousand miles. The engines are super reliable as the transmissions are. Tires seem to wear fairly quick, might get a couple of thousand out of the rear, with the front lasting maybe three times as long.

Like dogman says, state laws vary widely. California requires a M1 or M2 license, one time registration of the moped. The cops just look at you for curiosity's sake, mopeds being so rare and people thinking of the time they had one as a kid. Your a "instant celebrity" on a moped, every third person is always looking or pointing or saying how cool is that.

All my mopeds are from the late 1970's to early 1980's. Puch are top of the line, Vespa are very good, Batavus are good, the Motorbecane are good too, Tomos is the only one I think you can still get in the US, they are a solid moped.

Can not go wrong with a moped, 150 MPG, no yearly registration, can get away without insurance, slow enough that you are highly unlikely to kill yourself, fun as hell, instant celebrity.

Deron.

 

[maydaverave]

Can not go wrong with a moped, 150 MPG, no yearly registration, can get away without insurance, slow enough that you are highly unlikely to kill yourself, fun as hell, instant celebrity.

Deron.

The only vehicle that I have had thats gathered more attention than my ebike was a 1973 cadillac coupe deville with a 472 cubic inch big block, 425 horsepower, with a flatbed and positraction dually tires. :lol: and it only got four miles to the gallon. The younger girls especially like the ebike (they think Im socially responsible )

 

[deronmoped]

Can not go wrong with a moped, 150 MPG, no yearly registration, can get away without insurance, slow enough that you are highly unlikely to kill yourself, fun as hell, instant celebrity.

Deron.

The only vehicle that I have had thats gathered more attention than my ebike was a 1973 cadillac coupe deville with a 472 cubic inch big block, 425 horsepower, with a flatbed and positraction dually tires. :lol: and it only got four miles to the gallon. The younger girls especially like the ebike (they think Im socially responsible )

When I'm on one of my E-bikes, most people pay me no attention, with most of the rest just looking at it with a puzzled look. The few that do ask about it, get it wrong, knowing nothing about how it works. "Does that take gasoline, it's so quite (duh, it's a electric motor) does it recharge itself"?

Nice work truck.

Deron.

 

[dogman dan]

My cheap chinese scooter, the Roketta 150, has been pretty reliable so far. Only ride it about 2 days a month though, since I just prefer the ebike so much more. But it was a cheap alternative to a moped in my state. The tag is only about 25 bucks, and insurance is only $150 a year. I've had a motorcycle licence for 35 years so no problem with that. The mileage sucks compared to a moped though, only 70 mpg. When gas was looking headed for 6 bucks, the plan was that my wife would drive the scooter some. So she paid for the bike, making it free to me now. It was only $750 used, with about 3000 miles on it. I've put about 1000 more on.

 

[morph999]

Can not go wrong with a moped, 150 MPG, no yearly registration, can get away without insurance, slow enough that you are highly unlikely to kill yourself, fun as hell, instant celebrity.

Deron.

The only vehicle that I have had thats gathered more attention than my ebike was a 1973 cadillac coupe deville with a 472 cubic inch big block, 425 horsepower, with a flatbed and positraction dually tires. :lol: and it only got four miles to the gallon. The younger girls especially like the ebike (they think Im socially responsible )

I need to find out where the young girls are. My neighborhood has a deficit. I'm a little old to be hanging out near the high schools but I probably look young enough to fit in. I dated a 19 yr old recently so some of them still might be in my age range.

 

[morph999]

People are surprised that my e-bike costs $1000+ but really, all we are doing is paying for all the costs up front. You can buy a car for $700 but then you pay $1000/yr on gas. We just pay everything up front.