World Wide Electric Bike 36v kit, Fusin gearmotor review

mr Dogman, maybe you can put some shrink sleeve over the hall sensor wires to prevent subsequent tears.
I've experienced torn wires and loose soldering with my kits. Another common problem is that battery pack wiring can loosen. These problems are not hard to fix.
Make sure you don't connect wrong hall wires etc.
 
I got time to test it today, and it's still working. One hall wire has the insulation stripped, and the really damaged wire is a phase wire, that has just one strand still connected. Amazing one tiny strand of wire can still keep it working. Mabye this happened sooner than I thought, and is the cause of all the problems. I have been offered a new controller if the cut outs are caused by that. I'll have to do a test ride to know what is going on now before I send back a controller. Maybe I had some shorts to the halls wire causing all this.

Edit. Yup I can be stupid, but the ES members know that by now. :roll: :oops: All the problems I had were entirely due to the rubbing of the motor wires on the wheel. I thought I was having a controller problem, but all is functioning well again now, including all combinations of the jumper wires for the regen and low speed.
 
I just got back from a longer range test of the motor after some repairs to motor wires that got rubbed by the front wheel. It was a bit of a torture test even though the temperature is a cool 90 F.

I rode up organ pass for 7.5 miles from my house at 4450 feet to 5650 feet where the last place to turn around is due to concrete barriers at the top. I had about 30 mph of tailwind so riding up the pass was pretty easy. Actually harder to ride back down, despite grades of 7% at the top. Near my house where the grade is only 1% the 30 mph headwind made it a lot of work to ride home even at full throttle on the high setting. The controller never got much over ambient temps, and was running about 98F in 90F weather. The motor did get hot, on the axle where the wires come out I measured 141F and the covers were about 109. No problems and the 45 minuite 15 mile full throttle ride did not make smoke come out of anything. Compared to that ride my normal commute home is no sweat.
 
Yup, see if you can guess who I want to buy a sensorless controller from when the testing is over. It'll be fun to try to melt this motor next summer with a 20 amp controller. If we ever get hot enough, I will resume with heat testing your aotema but it won't even be above 95F today. We need 105 for some torture testing. I might have to see my buddy in Tuscon for a weekend.
 
Finally I got a warm day, 95F, for a bit of a heat test on this motor. On the 15 mile uphill ride home I rode full throttle in the medium power setting. I had put a bigger front sprocket on the bike, so I can pedal and get to around 20 mph on the flatter parts. The higest temps recorded on the axle stub where the wires come out was 117 at the top of the big hill, so it looks like hot weather riding on this motor is not particularly a problem. We won't know about really hot unless we get some, usually we have 105 F by now, but Las Cruces hasn't even officially hit 100 this year. If this is what global warming does, I like it.
 
You have a relatively heat proof bike, albeit one with skinny wiring. You need to devise a way to protect skinny wires. Seems just like the WE thumb throttle multi-color wiring. sensitive.
It's going to get hotter. In S Fla., we're already getting around 90 deg. every sunny afternoon. The heat index is often around 100 or more.
But as you mentioned long ago, humidity can actually have a cooling effect on hub motors. It doesn't have a cooling effect on people.
 
Yeah, but the wires were not at fault, I just ran them on the fork in a stupid way, and then when riding, the handlbars just blocked the view of what was happening. With the suspension fork, the wire has to bend every time the fork shortens and it was bending in, when I thought it was bending out. The wires now are routed where I can see them. I realize now that it took about 200 miles to wear the wires through, so the sheath on them is tough enough, as long as the rider isn't stupid like I was. I was sure the noise was coming from the brakes somehow, but couldnt figure it out. The bike was brand new too, so I wasn't sure I had everthing tuned up right. Every time I got off to look, the wire straighened out again when the forks stood up. The rubbing only happend when I put on the front brakes and I kept looking and looking, and never saw the wire near the tire. Now the wire is run on the outside of the fork where it could snag something, but not get near the wheel.

The only complaint I have had is the controller is a bit weak on the really really steep hills, but they say they aren't going to continue to sell the 36v kit in the US now anyway. Everybody wants the 48v version here. That controller is 22 amp, and should get just about anybody up any hill that is paved. The 36v kit does climb steeper hills though, just slowly, and it sure beats getting off to walk up! I need to go test it on Emory pass some weekend, 7-10 % for ten miles.

As for the heat, the weather is definitely a new normal too these days. Most years June is the hot month where two weeks of 110 F is not unusual, but this year we have humidity, and today they are predicting 85 F. But it's still been hot enough a few days to say that this motor can ride in most peoples weather for 15 miles nonstop.
 
Dogman, does the hub wheel roll freely/easily when pedaling without power assist? Every ebike I have ridden is rough riding without power unless there is some tail wind.
Even if the battery pack is removed it's still a workout because the hub does not roll like butter.
 
Though the motor does freewheel, it does not spin as easy as a plain front wheel. There seems to me to be a noticeable drag, though small, and if you just spin the wheel in the air, it will stop pretty fast.

I find it hard to tell the difference between this freewheel motor and the aotema direct drive when pedaling with the motor off. For sure, the aotema I have has a really low cogging resistance. I don't know if they all do or not. I have heard of there being quite a bit of variability of the cogging on clyte motors.

On the bikes I put these motors on, they don't pedal so hot to begin with, weighing about 35-40 pounds to start with. Then you strap on a few panniers full of tools, water, batteries, and 15 pounds of motor, and by god it peadles like the 85-100 pound dog it is. So it gets a bit hard to judge how much of that pedaling effort is motor, and how much is just the fact that the bike is 60 pounds heavier than a nice road bike.

On the bd36 motors I started out with, the cogging was huge, and felt like tire at 5 psi or less. On those ones, you had to have at least enough battery to cancel out the cogging or you would really suffer to get home.
 
Although I don't have anything to compare to the 9C motor it doesn't seem to have too much cogging torque. Yesterday on a slight downhill it picked up speed while coasting. I'm sure the extra weight had some influence. I do notice the extra effort pedaling but I think it may be 80% weight and 20% cogging causing this.
 
That's interesting, Dogman, about the Fusin gear motor having cogging effect. Could the freewheel be defective? The Bafang is free as a bird when the power is off. I do like the thicker gears on the Fusin, but really don't want to put up with extra drag!
otherDoc
 
It is possible to have a geared motor that does not freewheel, especially in this case where regen is supposedly possible.
 
Yep, true Snowranger! I thought the Fusin has a freewheel, though. To me it is more of an advantage than any regen would be in the non-frewheel type of geared motor.
otherDoc
 
The fusin does have a freewheel and it does not have any cogging effect. But it does have enough drag to stop spinning pretty fast if you lift the wheel off the ground and spin it by hand. So it does have more resistance than a plain front wheel, and at least my wheel does stop spinning faster than most rear wheel freewheels I have seen. It could be related to the extra mass of the motor, instead of real drag resistance. I wouldn't say you can feel any resistance from the motor while riding the bike unpowered, but I do feel resistance when riding an 85 pound ebike unpowered, vs a 26 pound bike. My dd motor seems to have a very low amount of cogging, lucky me.

So I wouldn't say there is any issues with the fusin motors freewheel that you would notice while riding.

As for regen, Louispower and the Fusin engineers now realize that a regen controller with a freewheeling gearmotor is not going to get you any regen, and they say they are pulling the regen from all the ads. They were measuing something in the lab, but now they know that it won't slow the bike down any.
 
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The pedaling resistance might come from spinning the planetaries. It depends where in the mechanism the freewheel is located. Everything downstream of the freewheel, you have to pedal.
 
That's possible, in any case it's not a lot of resistance, just enough to keep the wheel from spinning a long time when turned by hand.
 
I have notice on my bikes that there seems to be less drag when pedaling with the motor off. It could be that the magnets aren't reacting?
 
Throttle off, or the controller turned off? I have been told to unplug the wires to the motor on a direct drive to lessen cogging if you run out of battery and face a long slog home. On my aotema, the cogging is so little, that I can't tell any differences.

For sure, a direct drive motor has a top speed for the throttle setting when on, and I have learned that you can get a very slight ebrake on steep hills by applying a tiny bit of throttle, which causes the motor to want to turn slowly, and it will resist going faster.

Just in case readers are getting confused here, the fusin gearmotor in the review has no cogging, and the tiny bit of mechanical resistance in the freewheel is not felt when riding without power. Direct drive motors, it seems, some cog like crazy and some barely at all. Even within a particular brand and model, some dd motors will have more cogging resisitance than others, so if you want to ride pedal only any, a gearmotor is the thing you want.
 
Ok this pretty much ends the I leave stuff alone part of the review. After 500 miles of riding to work and back and a few torture tests, it's time to open er up and see the damage. What? no damage? Sure enough, none I can see. This is one sturdy little motor.

The last couple miles of the 500, I took it over the mountain to a road that has several miles of 10-13 % grade. I had put a thermometer on the axle stub, and in 95 F weather started riding up the grade. It was pretty hard to get up this grade, but in the low speed high torqe mode, the Fusin was able to go up it at about 7 mph with pedaling. On the steepest parts, it could not keep going unless you helped with pedaling, but I never had to pedal very hard to maintain 7-10 mph. The temperature though, was another story. Just like all the other motors I've heat tested, a steady climb in temperature resulted from the steep climb in altitude. In warm weather, I quickly reached the danger zone, which I consider to be about 170F. I kept riding, and soon had temps of 170 measured on the axle, outside the hub. I stopped then, and touching the hub, scorched my hand pretty good. So, unfortunately, this motor has the same achilles heel as all the other smaller motors I've ridden. In hot weather, or any weather if ridden long enough, a really steep hill will cause them to overheat pretty quick. I would say that this motor, at peak wattage, overheats just as fast as a typical direct drive motor. Of course I was doing my best to melt the sucker down, but still, I wouldn't want to try to go crosscountry through the mountains on one of these, or ride into stiff wind for hours.

The bottom line is, the smaller motors just can't radiate the heat as fast as the make it in some conditions, such as hot days up steep hills. So you have to monitor temperature somehow, and stop if the motor overheats if you want to go further than 10 miles in hot weather, or up steep hills in any weather.

Back to the good news though, and that is the kind of torture I just put the motor through, did no visible damage. I was particularly expecting to see some wear or indications of the gears not liking all that heat. But the gears look brand new to me. Overvolting of course is another story, and I ran this motor at 36v, but still, I never babyied it, I rode in the dirt some, and never tried to ease on the throttle to save the gears. I just flipped in on and off any way I wanted, creating all kinds of extra torque on things. As you can see in the pics, the gears look cherry.

The only thing I found inside was a tiny bit of surface rust on the outside of the motor housing, which is steel. Not that water ever got inside it, but just some humidity in there from time to time.

The only dissapointment was there is not enough space for me to cram two more wires into the axle, so I can have a thermometer inside the hub. I'll have to settle for monitoring axle temps, and then adding 20-30 F to that number to guess at the temps inside.

Here is a pic of the motor apart. Dissasembling it is easy, at least as far as getting the motor can out. Just remove the screws on the wires side, and lift out the can. No problems like with direct drive motors, since you remove the motor, but don't take the motor apart.fusin apart 500 miles.jpg


Here is a closeup of the gearsfusin gears 500 miles.jpg

And now the other side, with the magnets and halls visible,fusin magnets and rotors 500 miles.jpg
 
How heavy is that hub & rim? I know the Bd36 is approx 14 lbs. I opened it up this weekend (changed brushes) and saw no rust. Alot of carbon dust. Maybe you should put caulking in the creases so that moisture stays out. But you would have to caulk both sides. If you caulk one side the moisture might get trapped even more.
 
With the tire installed 12 pounds ,and the WE hubs are close to 20 with a rim and tire and at least a pound of slime.

Waterproofing is kinda two edged sword, If you totally waterproof, it needs to be a dry day when you seal it, or you seal humidity in, that condenses if the thing gets cold. If you half waterproof it, you get water that gets in, and can't get out. In my climate, I can get away with ignoring the whole issue, and leave the motor a bit able to breathe. A hole with a rubber plug would be a good idea, so you could dry a wet motor, or let a hot one cool quicker. They used hot glue to seal up suff on this kit, and none of it stayed sealed for very long, with the glue cracking loose by 500 miles. I carry plastic to wrap the controller in if I get caught in a shower. I rely on a drip loop to keep water from running down the wire into the motor.
 
Rust seems to be less of a problem on the brushed motors. Maybe the carbon dust particles are anti-rust?
My BD36 had no rust and it's plenty humid around here.
Any idea if the sealed bearings can be cleaned & lubed? It's the first thing I saw when opening the BD hub.
My thinking is that the bearing could be soaked in mineral spirits to clean. Next, lube between the creases
with a hypodermic needle type injection. We do this at work with old bearings and it works alot of the time.
Didn't take a good look at hub bearings, though
 
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