Zippy Flightmax / Turnigy lipo testing

[will_newton]

I bought a set of 4 5s balance extenders and a set of 4 6s balance extenders. I then cut them in half. I soldered four red leads from the four female ends to the single red lead on the male end. I soldered four yellow leads from the four female ends to the single yellow lead on the male end. I soldered four green...... and so on until I was done. I did twist the four leads together before soldering to the single lead. It was simpler to deal with 2 wires than five. I used some shrinktube over the solder joint.

It was not hard to do at all, just time consuming. Having an automatic stripping plier helps. I did start getting a little anxious the closer I got to being finished, just 'cause i didn't want to eff-up and have to redo anything.

I did nothing to the OEM balance leads that were attached to the battery. This battery setup is designed to be broken down into it's component parts. This makes for LOTS of connections. At least the connectors are much easier to suss out, which is a big plus!

 

[GGoodrum]

I've had a couple people ask, so I thought I'd share how I've been making my 6s3p and 12s3p Turnigy 20C/15Ah packs. I took pics of the 6s3p pack I just finished building, so I'll use those, but the only difference between it and my 12s3p pack is that the latter simply has two 6s3p packs, end-to-end, but instead of flat, I placed the three packs in an "L" configuration. This was so the pack wouldn't be so wide when mounted on the crossbar on my folding bike. Here's what the two packs look like:

View attachment Turnigy 18s3p Setup-01.jpg

And here is what they look like mounted on my 9C-equipped Mariner folding bike, in an 18s3p 66V/15Ah configuration:

View attachment eMariner-44.jpg




Anyway, I start by using some nifty double-sided duct tape to attach the three 6s5000 packs together, in a side-by-side configuration:

View attachment Turnigy 6s3p-01.jpg
View attachment Turnigy 6s3p-02.jpg


I find it is easier to make things nice and compact if I cut the two 4mm bullet connectors into separate leads:

View attachment Turnigy 6s3p-03.jpg


Next I make a 3-1 parallel adapter and output lead, using three 4mm bullet connectors, one for the three negative leads, and one for the three positive leads. Sorry for the 2nd picture being out-of-focus:

View attachment Turnigy 6s3p-04.jpg
View attachment 6


This is really pretty easy to do. You just take a short piec of 10-gauge wire, solder the appropriate 4mm bullets on the ends and strip out the middle section as shown. Then, use a longer piece of the same 10-gauge wire and do just one end in a similar fashion, with a bullet and about 1/2" of an exposed section. You twist the short piece together with the long piece, at the exposed sections, and then solder these together. A little shrink tubing and a little tape cleans things up, and you end up with a very compact 3-into-1 adapter/output lead. Then all you have to do is put output connectors on the the other end of the longer wires. I like to use 75A Andersons, which is shown.

Next up is a 6-channel LVC and parallel adapter board. This performs two functions. First, it is a convenient way to parallel the three 6-5000 pack balancer plugs. These simply plug straight into the provided board-mounted 7-pin JST-XH connectors. The board will accommodate up to four packs in parallel. As you can see below, there is also a single 7-pin output balancer plug. The 2nd function this board does is low-voltage protection, at the cell level. It won't let any block of cells get below 3.0V. What happens is an opto-couple output is turned on as long as the voltage is below 3.0V. As soon as the voltage rises back up above 3.0V, which will happen once the load is removed, the opto output is turned back off. Allof these optos are ganged together into a single two-wire output. This ouput can then be connected into the controller's ebrake signal line and controller ground. The net effect is that if an opto trips, the controller cuts the throttle, which removes the load. This will cause the voltage to rise enough to turn the opto off. If the throttle is still on, the process will repeat. Usually, I've found that once the first opto hits, the packs basically are getting close to empty. If you back off the throttle a bit, the voltage will stay high enough to keep the optos from tripping, and I can usually go another mile or two before the power basically oscillates on and off at about a 2Hz rate.

I usually use two JST/BEC pigtails, one male and one female, per 6s board. That way when I connect the 6s3p packs in series, I can "daisy-chain" the opto connections. One of the JST?BEC pigtails is then connected to the controller. Here's what this board looks like:

View attachment Turnigy 6s3p-06.jpg

I like to tape the board up with electrical tape, for a little added protection, and then I stick it to the top of the middle 6s-5000 pack, and plug in the balancer leads:




Finally, all that is left is to use some black duct tape to hold everything down, nice and tight, and then cover the whole assembly in black PVC shrink wrap:

View attachment Turnigy 6s3p-08.jpg
View attachment Turnigy 6s3p-09.jpg


The result is a 2" by 6" by 7" 6s3p 22V/15Ah pack that weighs only about 5-3/4 pounds (2578 gm...) and looks good enough that you don't have to hide the pack in a rack bag, like I originally did.

View attachment Turnigy 6s3p-10.jpg


I just got a whole bunch of these LVC/Parallel Adapter boards, and I will be making them available on my site, if anybody is interested. I'll probably offer them in a kit form, and a fully assembled version, like the one shown. Not sure of the cost yet, as I had to add everything up, but it should be in the $20-$25 range.

I'm also going to start offering the new 12s balancer that I have finally finished testing. I got the boards yesterday. It has two independent 6s sections, and either one can be connected to any 6s pack, or group of paralleled packs (like the ones above...). There is a whopping 650mA of balancing current provided, which is at least double what I've seen from even the best RC balancers. Anyway, more about these later. I'll post some more pics and info in the next day,or so.

-- Gary

 

[will_newton]

gary, that's sweet!

 

[317537]

How long do these lipos last on the shelf? I was thinking of putting together a pack over a couple of month, EG. buying a pack every two weeks until I had 20ah @ 48v.

Not a good idea or better to save and get them in one shipping.

 

[methods]

A year easy. They come in at 3.7V and you would have to self discharge all the way down to 2.7V to have serious damage
They have a very low self discharge rate - worry not.

You could always Ghetto charge them after 6 months too.... Hook 2 car batteries together in series and parallel that with a 6S pack.
Charge it up nice

-methods

 

[Grinhill]

For long-term storage, isn't it better to leave them on the shelf part-charged rather than fully charged? (my charger has a "storage" charge mode for LiPo).

Shipping costs will kill you. Better to save up for one shipment IMHO.

 

[GCinDC]

does anyone have any extra jst-xh extentions, like this that they wouldn't mind selling? or know where else to get them?

i've been waiting for a couple weeks now for them to get in stock at hobbycity...

i jumped on this bandwagon and bought 6 5s Turnigy 5Ah lipos, but need more for my harnesses...

 

[BenMoore]

GCinDC,
Would these fit your needs (JST HX female connectors with leads + male headers)?
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/6s1p-22-2v-6cell-RC-Lipo-battery-Balance-charger-plug_W0QQitemZ270460939570QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_Toys_Hobbies_Radio_Controlled_Vehicles?hash=item3ef8ba6d32&_trksid=p3911.c0.m14

 

[GCinDC]

Actually, I need 5s connectors... i'd prefer to get 20cm extensions so i can cut and splice them. Thanks though... Here's a diagram of my setup using 6 x 5s 5000mAh Turnigy's. Buying two more soon, as soon as I can find the jst-xh's..


real life photos to follow.

 

[TPA]

Shipping costs will kill you. Better to save up for one shipment IMHO.

When I put 1x6s turnigy in the shopping cart I get 19.95 shipping quote.

When I put 6x6s in the cart I get 81.74 shipping

It costs more to do one at a time, but not a killer, IMO.

Somehow I missed that Gary had a parallel balance connector for 3p I am so going to get some of those!

 

[GGoodrum]

When I put 1x6s turnigy in the shopping cart I get 19.95 shipping quote.

When I put 6x6s in the cart I get 81.74 shipping

It costs more to do one at a time, but not a killer, IMO.

You need to look at the shipping weight. It changes on every even kg. If you need some connectors, wire, or whatever, you can usually add these with the pack(s), to get the weight just up under the limit, before it trips over to the next kg.

Somehow I missed that Gary had a parallel balance connector for 3p I am so going to get some of those!

Yes, I just put those up. The one shown is for 3-1, but I also now have one that does 4-1:



You can also use this on with a 3-1 version and be able to do up to 6p configurations. You just plug the second on into the side-facing connector on the 4-1.

-- Gary

 

[TPA]

I also need something like that to parallel 3 - 3s packs I am planning to use as a booster. Do you know of a source for those?

When you get the 4-1 up on your website I will order them...20Ah sounds great.

 

[Hyena]

I just got a whole bunch of these LVC/Parallel Adapter boards, and I will be making them available on my site, if anybody is interested.

Very cool Gary, be sure and post back to this thread when they're available

 

[GGoodrum]

I just got a whole bunch of these LVC/Parallel Adapter boards, and I will be making them available on my site, if anybody is interested.

Very cool Gary, be sure and post back to this thread when they're available

They are available now: http://www.tppacks.com/proddetail.asp?prod=EBKE%2DLiPo%2DLVC

 

[Spanky]

Gary - I'm connecting 3 Turnegy 5 packs in series do you sell a parallel harness for for 5 packs?

 

[GGoodrum]

Gary - I'm connecting 3 Turnegy 5 packs in series do you sell a parallel harness for for 5 packs?

I don't at the moment, but I might support them if the demand is high enough. I just need to get 5-pin versions of the JST-XH connectors. If I do that, I might as well do 3, 4 and 5.

Here;s a shot of a 3-1 and 4-1 used together to support up to 6 packs in parallel:

View attachment Parallel Balance Plug Adapter-03.jpg

 

[ZapPat]

They are available now: http://www.tppacks.com/proddetail.asp?prod=EBKE%2DLiPo%2DLVC

Now this thing sounds perfect and very small looking too! Does it really do individual cell LVC monitoring? And will it work well even down to -20oC? The price seems pretty good too, comes to 8.50$ per 6p Lipo pack when used as a 3p config.

 

[ZapPat]

Gary - I'm connecting 3 Turnegy 5 packs in series do you sell a parallel harness for for 5 packs?

I don't at the moment, but I might support them if the demand is high enough. I just need to get 5-pin versions of the JST-XH connectors. If I do that, I might as well do 3, 4 and 5.

Didn't he mean to ask if you had a 5p harness? If so, just use two 3-1 harnesses and connect together for a 5p version for 6s packs. For 5s packs you'll need 6 pin JST-XH connectors, but you could use the same boards as the 6s uses maybe to simplify your inventory?

 

[GGoodrum]

Gary - I'm connecting 3 Turnegy 5 packs in series do you sell a parallel harness for for 5 packs?

I don't at the moment, but I might support them if the demand is high enough. I just need to get 5-pin versions of the JST-XH connectors. If I do that, I might as well do 3, 4 and 5.

Didn't he mean to ask if you had a 5p harness? If so, just use two 3-1 harnesses and connect together for a 5p version for 6s packs. For 5s packs you'll need 6 pin JST-XH connectors, but you could use the same boards as the 6s uses maybe to simplify your inventory?

I think he is looking for a 5s-compatible adapter. You are right, I can use the same board, but I need to get some 6-pin XH connectors. I will also get some 4-pin and 5-pin versions, so that I can do 3s, 4s, 5s and 6s versions.

-- Gary

 

[Hyena]

You can jam a 5S male into a 6S female, I do it regularly. Lipo is all about being ghetto right ?
If you're going to do it all the time you could grind down one of the tabs so the plug fits in smoothly.

Gary, I assume from the parallel arrangement of the 3S board it's only measuring each bank of cells ? So if say cell 1 in pack 1 drops to 2v while cell 1 in packs 2 and 3 are 4v the LVC won't trip ?

Will these still be available in kit form ? They look very simple to assemble (assuming there's no surface mount components on the back of the board) and are a good alternative for those running lipos and want some protection but aren't keen to tackle your full on BMS

 

[GGoodrum]

You can jam a 5S male into a 6S female, I do it regularly. Lipo is all about being ghetto right ?
If you're going to do it all the time you could grind down one of the tabs so the plug fits in smoothly.

Gary, I assume from the parallel arrangement of the 3S board it's only measuring each bank of cells ? So if say cell 1 in pack 1 drops to 2v while cell 1 in packs 2 and 3 are 4v the LVC won't trip ?

This can never happen this way. Whenever you parallel cells, all of them will normalize to the same exact voltage, so if one flakes out, the other two will be pulled down to the same level.

Will these still be available in kit form ? They look very simple to assemble (assuming there's no surface mount components on the back of the board) and are a good alternative for those running lipos and want some protection but aren't keen to tackle your full on BMS

o

Maybe, but frankly it would take as much time to put a kit together as it would to build up the whole card.

-- Gary

 

[Hyena]

Fair enough.
Any chance of posting a circuit diagram and component list for those of us who want to play around with different numbers of cells?
Fell free to tell me to nick off if this is infringing on the time / effort you put into testing and making these boards

 

[GGoodrum]

Fair enough.
Any chance of posting a circuit diagram and component list for those of us who want to play around with different numbers of cells?
Fell free to tell me to nick off if this is infringing on the time / effort you put into testing and making these boards

The circuit couldn't be simpler. It is just 2-1/2 parts per channel. Here's the schematic:

View attachment LiPo LVC-v3.3a.png


This example includes the active cutoff section, which should be good for well over 100A, but I prefer to use the controller's ebrake input. It is more reliable and works with virtually any ebike controller.

 

[GGoodrum]

Okay, I have a pile of 4-pin, 5-pin and 6-pin JST-XH board-mountable connectors coming, so I went ahead and changed the shopping cart item around so you can select the number of cells per pack, from 3s to 6s. Here's the page link.

Edit: I did the same thing for the LVC + Parallel Adapters as well.

-- Gary

 

[snowranger]

Fair enough.
Any chance of posting a circuit diagram and component list for those of us who want to play around with different numbers of cells?
Fell free to tell me to nick off if this is infringing on the time / effort you put into testing and making these boards

The circuit couldn't be simpler. It is just 2-1/2 parts per channel. Here's the schematic:




This example includes the active cutoff section, which should be good for well over 100A, but I prefer to use the controller's ebrake input. It is more reliable and works with virtually any ebike controller.

Does this work with the RC ESC or throttle interfaces or servo tester?