Chinese eMoto Upgrade feasible?

[youtube]ICjlbyxIB7g[/youtube]


Just watched this vid and I would like to do a similar build, however I would want to utilize these components instead-


https://electricrt.com/qs-205-v3-asi-controller-kit/

https://electricrt.com/ert-nxt-color-touch-screen-display/

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32814639816.html?spm=a2g0s.8937460.0.0.13252e0ehqZLuF


Intend to run 4-~14 kwh to climb 12-16km inclines @ 30-45 mph with the single rear hub, rather than this setup:-
[youtube]ICODFXzlKXA[/youtube]


May need to add some fins to the motor... and some liquid coolant? What do you guys think.

That would be kickass get the ferrofluid and sink from hubsink and the motor from qs or em3ev!

Well yeah it's totally feasible... just look at my build in my signature :wink:

Your motor choice is good, nothing wrong with it. A friend of mine installed one on his motorcycle and it's real impressive wih a good controller (which as it turns out is the most difficult thing to find, power output and reliability will vary tremendously from one controler to another... he tried a ton of different ones, probably dozens at this point). So yeah, this motor is good.

No Idea about the touchscreen, I'm using the screen from the ANT BMS, that's low tech but enough for me, don't care about all that fancy stuff. If you want to save some bucks, at least in the beginning, you might want to consider it, you have all the information you need on it (speed, battery SOC, individual cells voltages, BMS and battery temperatures, power meter, Amp meter, voltmeter, odometer, .... The only missing thing in my opinion is the controler and motor temp readings, but there are other ways to get them if really necessary.

Your controller choice is ok but on the "weak" side. 460A per phase isn't all that much for such heavy bikes. Mine is running at 510A per phase and to be honest, although it's quite decent, I could live with more power.
Try to get your hands on something having at least 800 Amps per phase, you motor can take it and you'll have much more power than you'd expect.

I can't help you about the hills and stuff, here in Shanghai it's all flat so I don't have any experience with that. If you think that hills can be a problem, and if you have the budget, then go for a watercooled motor.

You didn't talk about your battery, that's probably the most important component since everything will depend on what it can provide, so what's your plan here?

Dui said:

Well yeah it's totally feasible... just look at my build in my signature :wink:

Your motor choice is good, nothing wrong with it. A friend of mine installed one on his motorcycle and it's real impressive wih a good controller (which as it turns out is the most difficult thing to find, power output and reliability will vary tremendously from one controler to another... he tried a ton of different ones, probably dozens at this point). So yeah, this motor is good.

Click to expand...

Thank you, that's one less thing to worry about - a good motor is key. I was sadly mistaken about the capabilities of a hub motor.

Dui said:

No Idea about the touchscreen, I'm using the screen from the ANT BMS, that's low tech but enough for me, don't care about all that fancy stuff. If you want to save some bucks, at least in the beginning, you might want to consider it, you have all the information you need on it (speed, battery SOC, individual cells voltages, BMS and battery temperatures, power meter, Amp meter, voltmeter, odometer, .... The only missing thing in my opinion is the controller and motor temp readings, but there are other ways to get them if really necessary.

Click to expand...

The touchscreen is new technology targeted to ebike and other light EVs. Still in development stage so a lot of features are still a W.I.P.

(They are looking at traction control in the next 1-2 years after bad cold-19 blows over {maybe sooner since they will be stuck inside with controller all day lmao})

[youtube]pkRyZ9qtCDY[/youtube]

Dui said:

Your controller choice is ok but on the "weak" side. 460A per phase isn't all that much for such heavy bikes. Mine is running at 510A per phase and to be honest, although it's quite decent, I could live with more power.
Try to get your hands on something having at least 800 Amps per phase, you motor can take it and you'll have much more power than you'd expect.

I can't help you about the hills and stuff, here in Shanghai it's all flat so I don't have any experience with that. If you think that hills can be a problem, and if you have the budget, then go for a watercooled motor.

Click to expand...

I think this one will push the type of phase amps you make reference to, it seems it was only in stock for a short time lmao..
https://www.accelerated-systems.com/products/electric-motor-controllers/bac8000

It seems to be fully compatible with the display above and is about another 200 dineros

Gives me plenty of time to save..... (This is a future build my dream project ill be okay doing 30-40A BBSHD until i have the cash)

It's a steepish incline, maybe 20-25 degrees, for 12/16 kilometers. + side is i can run regen all the way down on my return trip lol


Watercooling sounds daunting for an emoto - would i then just cool both the motor and batteries in a closed loop?

I'll try ferrofluid first and record temps.

but yes i have to agree with you the price is quickly approaching lower end zero mtrcycle if i am not careful... Sigh

ANT BMS does sound interesting. Does it connect directly to the motors hall sensor/controller?

Dui said:

You didn't talk about your battery, that's probably the most important component since everything will depend on what it can provide, so what's your plan here?

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REGARDING THE CELLS I AM SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO UPSET BRO.

I was on ebay looking at SPIM08HP cells when i found out they are not all that. May just follow Inja and literally make three banks of LG Browns because they would be far more reliable than those garbage cells in real world application

So people are trashing Alan all over the place here but still using his videos as an example of what they think they can get?

I see so many of these Chinese bikes as something only worth upgrading. So do you really believe this thing is going to make you happy with an 800w or whatever motor? Looks like a great start though.

https://www.amazon.com/AISHFP-All-Terrain-Motorcycle-Li-Battery-Innovation/dp/B088MCBBVJ/

Some things about it are difficult to get right yourself, such as a good frame/forks, wiring,brakes. Assuming the bike comes with all of that good. I think if you want a particularly nice bike you want to find a platform that's overbuild for the motor and upgrade it.

If your guy in the video could get his bike for $700 on Alibaba, I figure I might find one of these there around that, eh? NO luck so far. . . .

Dauntless said:

So people are trashing Alan all over the place here but still using his videos as an example of what they think they can get?

I see so many of these Chinese bikes as something only worth upgrading. So do you really believe this thing is going to make you happy with an 800w or whatever motor? Looks like a great start though.

https://www.amazon.com/AISHFP-All-Terrain-Motorcycle-Li-Battery-Innovation/dp/B088MCBBVJ/

Some things about it are difficult to get right yourself, such as a good frame/forks, wiring, brakes. Assuming the bike comes with all of that good. I think if you want a particularly nice bike you want to find a platform that's overbuild for the motor and upgrade it.

If your guy in the video could get his bike for $700 on Alibaba, I figure I might find one of these there around that, eh? NO luck so far. . . .

Click to expand...

I haven't read your full post but i would just like to say I've only known about Alan for maybe 6-9 months and as a fellow small business owner myself, I can totally understand what he is going through getting the new kits out. I honestly dont know of whatever other ill comments people have about him, but SO FAR.... his products look top notch.....


And regarding the motorcycle frame, I think what China did is repurpose gas motorcycles for electric, so if they could accommodate a two stroke they should be okay for electric. Suspension and brakes will be subjective to me when I get it, I have confidence i can figure it out. It's not like i plan to install Ohlins and Brembo, just whatever works well enough... I will be relying a lot on Regen to shave speed going downhill.


I did a lot of digging after the Inja video, in talks with this vendor..
https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Chaopao-4000w-electric-motorcycle-8000w-72v_62425757271.html?spm=a27aq.13985018.passFloor.2.47377b8fBt4H2R

I'm asking them to give me a discount, by removing the battery, and giving me a 1000/2000w placeholder hub motor, maybe just for the free tire lol
[youtube]1i8y9M6JnP0[/youtube]

Gives a summary of the process he went through, also he will be doing a more in depth do's and don'ts of DIY modding it, I'll just try to see how i can mod it to Alan's BAC8000 getup @_@

Oh heavens, most common Chinese motorcycles, scooters, mopeds, they have the gas and electric versions. I think you could sell the engine, tank, etc., it would be cheaper to do your own conversion, so many electric bikes are so overpriced. But if it comes electric you could hope the wiring would hold up better than what you did yourself.

Your guy says he found his bike for $700, but shipping is anywhere from $400 to $1,000 from what I've seen. Here's the cheapest bike in that class I'd want to upgrade, shipping not so bad. But it still seems so pricey by the time I sink another $1,500 into it, for not a sport bike performance. Oh yeah, note the mention of "Exhaust."

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000107373189.html

I went through the same dilemma and calculations.

Ended up buying a road registered bike in the UK and converting it myself using QSMotor 4Kw hub and Kelly controller. Invested in a decent battery (72V 40Ah capable of 150A bursts using Samsung 40T cells).

All in with shipping for motor and controller and the bike itself (which was a year old Chinese R3 clone, Yamasaki brand) I spent equivalent of $3,500.

To be honest I looked at importing a Hanbird electric motorcycle from China but even with SLA lead acid pack by the time I paid import and shipping duties it was more than $3,000 equivalent and wasn’t even certified for road use. I know someone who put it through the certification test here in UK (MSVA) and spent upwards of $6,000 all in with the changes they had to make.

I’ve now got something that is the size of a 600cc with decent performance. Max speed is around 60-65mph with very strong acceleration once you get the hub spinning to start with. Range is about 35-50 miles with my 40Ah pack depending on speed but that’s all I wanted and I can easily fit a pack 3x that size if I want to in the frame.



My colour change and stickers may not be to everyone’s taste but I like it

Dauntless said:

Oh heavens, most common Chinese motorcycles, scooters, mopeds, they have the gas and electric versions. I think you could sell the engine, tank, etc., it would be cheaper to do your own conversion, so many electric bikes are so overpriced. But if it comes electric you could hope the wiring would hold up better than what you did yourself.

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Hmmmm..... I see

Dauntless said:

Your guy says he found his bike for $700, but shipping is anywhere from $400 to $1,000 from what I've seen. Here's the cheapest bike in that class I'd want to upgrade, shipping not so bad. But it still seems so pricey by the time I sink another $1,500 into it, for not a sport bike performance. Oh yeah, note the mention of "Exhaust."


https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000107373189.html

Click to expand...

LMAO - well i could repurpose that exhaust pipe ya know!!!!

https://www.sound-booster.com/en/sets/electric-vehicle.html

There's another one in this video much more convincing - not sure how easy it is to tie into a controller - would sound like a supercharged BMW LMAO


12:06 Mins (video below)
https://youtu.be/x-OY1hwrqqs?t=721

swiftyds said:

I went through the same dilemma and calculations.

Ended up buying a road registered bike in the UK and converting it myself using QSMotor 4Kw hub and Kelly controller. Invested in a decent battery (72V 40Ah capable of 150A bursts using Samsung 40T cells).

All in with shipping for motor and controller and the bike itself (which was a year old Chinese R3 clone, Yamasaki brand) I spent equivalent of $3,500.

To be honest I looked at importing a Hanbird electric motorcycle from China but even with SLA lead acid pack by the time I paid import and shipping duties it was more than $3,000 equivalent and wasn’t even certified for road use. I know someone who put it through the certification test here in UK (MSVA) and spent upwards of $6,000 all in with the changes they had to make.

I’ve now got something that is the size of a 600cc with decent performance. Max speed is around 60-65mph with very strong acceleration once you get the hub spinning to start with. Range is about 35-50 miles with my 40Ah pack depending on speed but that’s all I wanted and I can easily fit a pack 3x that size if I want to in the frame.

My colour change and stickers may not be to everyone’s taste but I like it

Click to expand...

Hmmm it definitely is seeming like this project is gonna be a hard-mode LOL - what isnt these days 8)

I love your sporty motogp look ignore the haters lol

Sigh. I guess the only question remains, Kelly vs Sabvoton vs BAC 8000

I asked Dui in his thread which controller he stuck with, wait for answer.

And somebody with a little econobox drives around here lately, can't help but wonder what they had in there for it to make so much noise. Those engines won't fit in that little thing.

To embed the YouTube thread in the post you use the YouTube button as you've tried and put just the video number, x-OY1hwrqqs for example, between the boxes. Unfortunately you can't time the starting point that way. If you just give the link you don't need the YouTube boxes.

[youtube]x-OY1hwrqqs[/youtube]

Dauntless said:

I asked Dui in his thread which controller he stuck with, wait for answer.

Click to expand...

Okay

Dauntless said:

And somebody with a little econobox drives around here lately, can't help but wonder what they had in there for it to make so much noise. Those engines won't fit in that little thing.

Click to expand...

LMAO yes they were asking Inja to program it into his bluetooth speakers as well - very clever


To embed the YouTube thread in the post you use the YouTube button as you've tried and put just the video number, x-OY1hwrqqs for example, between the boxes. Unfortunately you can't time the starting point that way. If you just give the link you don't need the YouTube boxes.


Thank you

[youtube]1HeEK5cLNpw[/youtube]

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/72V-ADULT-FAST-ELECTRIC-SCOOTERS_62200656581.html

So if I DID get the minimum 70 of these, less than $1k each with shipping, probably not too hard to dump some real quick. Oh, still too many. Just 35 might work. I'm sure it would need an upgrade.

Nothing about exhaust. Aww, 35 is still too many. Especially since I'd start wanting to keep several.

Dauntless said:

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/72V-ADULT-FAST-ELECTRIC-SCOOTERS_62200656581.html

So if I DID get the minimum 70 of these, less than $1k each with shipping, probably not too hard to dump some real quick. Oh, still too many. Just 35 might work. I'm sure it would need an upgrade.

Nothing about exhaust. Aww, 35 is still too many. Especially since I'd start wanting to keep several.

Click to expand...

Ohhhh... I like this one a lot. But geez louise it's much tougher to sell those where I live. Lol

That 24Tubes Controller does sound like a disaster waiting to happen though. :lol:

Honeslty looking at a cheap Ninja 250 in the interim, but sub $1000 prebuilt seems very compelling

Gizmosis350k said:

The touchscreen is new technology targeted to ebike and other light EVs. Still in development stage so a lot of features are still a W.I.P.

Click to expand...

Yeah, well I suggest you to wait and maybe purchase that at the very end of your build, no need to rush, especially since it is still under development

Gizmosis350k said:

I think this one will push the type of phase amps you make reference to, it seems it was only in stock for a short time lmao..
https://www.accelerated-systems.com/products/electric-motor-controllers/bac8000

Click to expand...

Seems nice on paper (but many controller seem nice on paper)
Can't see if it features flux weakening (this function is important if you want to be able to tweak your top speed).
I sggest you to find some reviews of people who actually tried it, if they are any good then I'd say you can go for it, it should have lots of power and you shouldn't be disappointed!

Gizmosis350k said:

Watercooling sounds daunting for an emoto - would i then just cool both the motor and batteries in a closed loop?

Click to expand...

I probalby wouldn't watercool the battery. You want it not to heat in the first place, so get the best cells you can instead and make it as large as you can financially afford. I personnally really like the A123 20AH LiFePO4 cells because they are super powerful, really tough and they don't heat, but they are considered a bit old tech and heavy/bulky, plus the form factor doesn't suit all bikes. You will need to get a really powerful battery capable of providing around 600Amps if you go for that controller, so that's something to keep in mind.

But yeah, if you plan on riding 12 kilometers long hills, I don't think watercooling the motor will be optional. Pretty sure that will be mandatory. But that's just my guess, again, Shanghai is flat so I don't have this problem.
I would do two loops, one for cooling the motor, one for cooling the controller. It's not difficult to do, there are some cheap components for computer watercooling that do the job just fine, you'll just need a pump/reservoir, a radiator and a few hoses.

Gizmosis350k said:

ANT BMS does sound interesting. Does it connect directly to the motors hall sensor/controller?

Click to expand...

Yeah, I think so. I don't use it to record the speed though, I have the original mechanical odometer system of the bike for that.
The only feature it misses is temperature display of the motor and the controller, that's the only things that could be improved IMO.

Dauntless said:

If your guy in the video could get his bike for $700 on Alibaba, I figure I might find one of these there around that, eh? NO luck so far. . . .

Click to expand...

Just wait for the police auctions and you can snap them up for uber cheap.

Thanks, I spent yesterday working out the same basic kit as you have built.

The other thought is the escooter style, less cool though.