Crystalyte 406 Rear Hub Motor With Disk Brake

As expected it don't fit :?

Removed 7-speed freewheel with freewheel remover tool. Drilled out hole in freewheel remover tool with 1/2" drill so it would fit over axle. Use drill press and lots of cutting oil.


Park Tool Freewheel Remover FR-1

Put freewheel remover tool in a vise and turn wheel.

Now I got questions?
How do you get side covers off motor?
How is axle attached to spoked part? See RED arrow.
Can axle move horizontally?
Should wire that exits motor in groove of axle be up or down?

Thanks for the help.

marty said:

Now I got questions?
How do you get side covers off motor?
How is axle attached to spoked part? See RED arrow.
Can axle move horizontally?
Should wire that exits motor in groove of axle be up or down?
...
Thanks for the help.

Click to expand...

The side covers are stuck on with the paint. Remove the screws, then gently pound the blade of a knife into the crack until there's enough clearance to put a screwdriver in. Once the paint seal cracks, it should pop off.

The axle is held in place by the bearings, which fit into the side covers. You cannot move the axle horizontally (without machining something).

The wires should exit the bottom of the axle so that water does not follow the wires into the motor.

On the x4, it is far easier to remove the freewheel if you take the cover off first - then the axle isn't in the way and you don't have to drill the freewheel tool.

Did you purchase ebike.ca's threaded side cover and disk brake adapter to do this? I think Justin says it won't work on the rear wheel... Maybe with a single speed and re-dishing the wheel you could get on on there.

-JD

fechter said:

The side covers are stuck on with the paint. Remove the screws, then gently pound the blade of a knife into the crack until there's enough clearance to put a screwdriver in. Once the paint seal cracks, it should pop off.

Click to expand...

Tried the knife blade. It teased it but it would not come off. Got a 16D Common Nail. File point flat. Cut head off. Then put nail in a drill and file end round. Grinder would work too. Now I got a custom made round head punch. Put round head punch in side cover screw hole and gently tap with small hammer. Cover turned! Its free! Careful with that round head punch. Don't mash holes. More of the Fechter knife trick. Now with a O-Ring Pick in screw hole, pull side cover off. O-Ring Pick looks like a dentists pick tool. Got both side covers off. Center of motor is held in by magnet. Strong magnet. Fight with magnet, It comes out.

fechter said:

The axle is held in place by the bearings, which fit into the side covers. You cannot move the axle horizontally (without machining something).

Click to expand...

Had to take it all apart to confirm that. You right Fechter. Can flip right and left to change offset side.

Problems :? Axle on motor I got is offset. With disk brake on intended side, caliper hits motor. Went to local bike shop and bought 16T single speed freewheel. [T=teeth] Flipped axle around. See picture.

16T single speed freewheel is just hanging there not attached. Now brake disk is too close to center and freewheel is too close to edge. Call Ebike.ca, Zev explain about different motor with motor in center of axle. Think that might be better for what I try to do? See picture from Crystalyte web site.

Order new motor with motor in center of axle. Anyone want to buy the 406 motor shown in my exploratory surgery picture? Will put it all back together with 7 speed freewheel and NO disk brake. Send private message or email. Make a offer.

Two possible solutions:

1. A much larger diameter brake disk so the caliper sits above the motor housing? I've seen rotors as large as 9 inches.

2. Grind(or machine) off part of the long axle stub (without touching the threads), then add a spacer on the other side to make up the width. You could only get a small offset with this approach before you run out of threads on the short side. The grinding process would be to make the thick part of the axle stub the same size as the threaded part so it can pass through the dropout. Washers/spacers to take up the slack.

I hope my description is not too confusing.

fechter said:

<SNIP>

2. Grind(or machine) off part of the long axle stub (without touching the threads), then add a spacer on the other side to make up the width. You could only get a small offset with this approach before you run out of threads on the short side. The grinding process would be to make the thick part of the axle stub the same size as the threaded part so it can pass through the dropout. Washers/spacers to take up the slack.

I hope my description is not too confusing.

Click to expand...

machining down one side is fine but by the time you add a spacer on the other side long enough to center the wheel, there won't be enough threaded axle left on that side to lock down the wheel.

to solve that problem it would be easiest to shorten down the existing axle short of the threaded section by machining. drill and tap what remains of the axle then machine a stub axle that will thread into the remainder of the exiting axle, spaces it out the correct amount and has a long enough threaded section for it to work. once you fix the stud in place with loktite and a pin or two machine matching flats to fit the dropouts.

by the time you do all of that, unless you do your own machining it will be cheaper to buy a new motor. cheaper yet if you manage to get a good price for the existing motor when you sell it.

rick

Thanks for the suggestions. Instead of messing around with the motor I got. Ordered [from different supplier] new 406 motor with motor in center of axle. Hope it fits with 1-speed freewheel and disk brake?

It seems like it would almost be easier to bolt a larger brake disk to the motor housing itself ...

kbarrett said:

It seems like it would almost be easier to bolt a larger brake disk to the motor housing itself ...

Click to expand...

Larger brake disk would require moving the caliper. That would require major surgery, unless some ready made caliper reposition gismo is for sale?

Depending on the caliper mount, you might be able to simply use longer bolts and some tubular spacers. The spacers might need to be machined, but that would be relatively easy. Both of the disk brake calipers I have could be raised by adding spacers between the two parts.

I found that rim brakes are much more performance, more reliable, lighter, less expensive, more durable, than disc brakes except for hydraulic ones. unless you weigh 250 lbs good rim brakes will be absolutely fine.
check the veneer on the sensors because it gets easily scraped off when you take the magnets out, then when the wires are exposed they rust into oblivion with a bit of moisture and current.
I found that the lid was jammed on so hard that it was taking the whole of the motor with it out of the case, to go fast I just stand on top of the wheel near the spokes and leaver one side down with my foot or just put all my weight on with some cusions underneath, which is okay if the plastic of the sensors isn't protruding from the metal a lot but to be honest the guys who fit the motors risk that when they put the magnets in.

marty said:

kbarrett said:

It seems like it would almost be easier to bolt a larger brake disk to the motor housing itself ...

Click to expand...

Larger brake disk would require moving the caliper. That would require major surgery, unless some ready made caliper reposition gismo is for sale?

Click to expand...

You can buy an adapter to move your caliper to accept an 8" disc. I googled my ass off and finally found one. I think it was 29 bucks- can't remember. You can get a 8" disc and adapter as a "kit". I have a front mounted 408 that I am putting on a mechanical disc setup. The 7" would not work as the caliper hit the hub. With the 8" itlooks like it might work. I also had to buy the new US disc brake adapter from ebikes.ca because xlyte uses some odd bolt arangement. another 70 bucks...

try moving the wheel forward with the disc brake fully locked, using the handlebars and the front wheel, from what I can see, the calipre brakes are much stronger than the disc brakes. And there is less friction when the wheel goes round. I think they are a gimmick for the general market, you only need them if you are doing competitions and have hydraulic ones. good vbrakes are much more powerful.

zzoing said:

try moving the wheel forward with the disc brake fully locked, using the handlebars and the front wheel, from what I can see, the calipre brakes are much stronger than the disc brakes. And there is less friction when the wheel goes round. I think they are a gimmick for the general market, you only need them if you are doing competitions and have hydraulic ones. good vbrakes are much more powerful.

Click to expand...

RATSS!! Dang, I was hoping I could get better stopping power with a disc. Oh well, live and learn I guess. Anyways, I spent the money so I will give it a go.

me too, I was trying to find out all the A2Z adapters and things to actually get the disk onto my bike, and then the I had a test run of the calipers on a front wheel disc compared to tektro and promax v break and I almost fell backwards! check out on the disk calipre how much lever movement is necessary to get from idle to max load... it's almost more than the brake lever can do! ....then I had this other bike and I went out with hydraulic brakes and the bike was going very slowly, so after about a 5 minutesI figured it wasn't just the batteries, I touched the front brake and it was locked solid, and the disc was very hot. definitely any alloy mountain bike breaks should be really reliable! I think it's useful only when you are balancing on trees and rocks!

Hmm.. personally i much prefer my disk brakes.

As with anything, there are ranges of quality in brake parts, pad, rim, rotor, disk, levers, cables, etc.. all play a major factor in braking capacity.

I bet a good majority of bicycles on the road simply don't have their brakes adjusted properly.

Both rim and disk can get the job done .

I like how the rims stay clean with disk brakes tho, and you can run powder coated rims, plus, you wear down the rotor and pads, not your expensive rims (tho a rim will last a long time.. )

all pros and cons.. I still like my 8" disks !!!

Well, I got some pretty decent parts, ( I think so at least from reading reviews ) so I'll be sure to try the bike out both ways and give a report...once the garage warms up! I'm too big a baby to go out there now. I got a Avid BB7 MTN disc set and also a Disco Brake adapter and matching disc.

Edit: Add links
http://www.phattire.com/avcabac.html

http://www.discobrakes.com/?s=0&t=0&c=0&p=0& PN# = OBE-BMS120

You just need a heat source !!

I have an oil furnace in my garage, it was originally in a 2 story house !!!! and now in my 12 x 16ft garage.. lets just say it gets hot.. FAST ..

Cold beer.. warm garage.. = Good Times !

Yeah, I need a heat source. This spring before it gets hot, I'm gonna scurry around in the attic and put in some outlets and heat and a bunch of other stuff to make me a nice place to tinker.

Some brake ideas-
A mate of mine succeeded in putting an 8" disk on the rear of his KMX 408- Clearances are very tight. The disk is bolted directly to the side cover (see pic)

You can also use a Magura Hydraulic Rim brake- These are easy to fit to most bikes and work almost as well as a disk and have awesome feel. I use these on the rear of my 65kmh KMX, and Diatech hydraulic disks at the front. Hydraulic disks are fantastic- Strongly recommend them for all front brake setups.

Hi Rhubarb,

Nice brake setup on your friend's 408.

I'm very interested in trying to mount an Avid BB7 on a 406 hub with a 6" disc on my Aerorider.

Things are very tight for me as well.

Can you take some better close-up pictures of this disc brake mounted on a 408 ? Other angles would also be nice...

You say he mounted the disc directly to the side plate of the 408? How? Did he drill and tap holes to it?

Any other tips of how he mounted this combination would be nice.

Thanks and Best Regards,

Brian

wow rhubarb that looks expensive.

the way to fix a disc brake to a 408 is to get the specialised disc brake side plating that can be bought separately, at least from ebike.ca, just unscrew the six bolts and pop it on.