Vermont- "Motor Driven Cycles" 2nd Inspection

[Kent]

Note the "MDC"

Well, like many I was thinking about going legal with a plate and all. Now that I am crusing at 30-35mph and want to share the road with other vehicles, and get my right of way and respect, the concept is appealing. No more riding on the shoulder in the dirt, verring around potholes, being run off the road, etc. Most of my riding is around town with an occasional jaunt down a country road. Staying off the one and only bike path is no big deal. And of course i don't do sidewalks anyway.

So whats-up in vermont? I checked into the local DMV website and found out that the state recently had redefined its vehicle catagories. They did away with "scooter" and "moped" and now instead have a catagory called Motor Driven Cycle right on the registration form. And under type of propulsion there is a catagory for "electric". No shit.

This is what they say about "MDC":
"Cannot exceed over 30 mph on a level surface.Engine must operate without a need for clutching or shifting.Cannot possess an engine larger than 50 cubic centimeters.Restricted to two or three wheels."

So today I went up to the local MVD and tried to register it. The only bill of sale I had for the bike was the original sales receipt for the bike itself. I explained to the nice lady that she probably wouldn't find the value of my make in her vehicle blue book, (as they are importing so many Chinese mopeds now with crazy names ), so after looking she just did a perchantage of my original sales price of $575 (Jamis Komodo). Then she excused herself and went to speak to her suprevisor. I thought, oh no here it comes. Not in the book so can't do it, I thought. But she returned with my nice new plate-probably her first MDC plate shes issued, and off I went. $55.

Needless to say I was tickled. I have 15 days to get it inspected at a regular motorcycle/scooter shop and get my annual sticker. So i was looking up what they require on a MDC. Turns out it is the same as a motorcycle with proper lights, turn signals etc. plus full reflectors and, get this, horn button on the left handlebar. Go figure.

it turns out it was more hassle getting insurance with the endless questions including "was this moped professionally manufactured? Of course, I said! And what is the cc on it again? 49 I said. (since 50cc+ is considered by some insurance companies as a motorcycle) I didn't tell the insurance about the new Vermont MDC though. Didn't want to muddy the waters. Just called it a moped. No mention of electric conversion. Yup it came like that....

So now when i see a local cop in my mirror, its just 30mph especially since he's probably never seen a MDC plate before and will want to check me out.

Small price to pay.

[bowlofsalad]

Is what you have registered an actual ebike?

"and get my right of way and respect" Sadly, a tiny piece of green rectangular metal isn't going achieve this. Your bike is likely to always seen as a bicycle. Until drivers have to ride an e-bike for a year on the roads before getting their license to drive a car, you'll just be seen as something in their way to cheeseburgers and over priced slave made clothing.

I am wondering if the law in Vermont has any actual statement on ebikes. Almost every state in the US has a limit of 20mph for ebikes. It seems that once a bicycle exceeds 30mph they are seen as a motorcycle, which really sucks in my opinion.

All I am able to find on e-bikes for law concerning Vermont is that ebikes that fall into the category of the feds definition, under 20mph, are seen as bicycles.

I don't know if the 20-30mph has a statute in many places, but I am betting that 35mph isn't a good speed to travel even with those plates.

Can you show what the law says from your source?

[Kent]

Sure, I checked the Vt law carefully and the only reference is the one quoted. I am not about to challenge any federal statures. My concern is the state that I live in as they are the issuing authority and the local police are the ones potentially that could give me a hassle.

In the eyes of the law here I fall into the same catagory as a funky 49cc ice scooter. Suits me. They can call it what they like as long as I am legal and they don't bug me. Now I can't be busted for doing 30mph on "a bicycle". If you personally feel that 30 mph is inappropriate for a cycle, then its your choice. But I don't want my choice restricted.

Your comment that a piece of metal is not going to change driving behavior and attitudes overall I agree with. No, its not a cure all for the vast majority of inconsiderate motorists. Yes they will continue to run up my ass. But if they choose to hit me or run me off the road, they have now committed an offensive against a licensed, insured vehicle and the law will deal with them accordingly. But thats not my primary reason-its secondary.

So for me personally, its a step in a positive direction and an experience I chose to share. There are others on this forum who have taken a similiar step. Check it out!

BTW thanks for your comments.

P.S. I failed to mention initially that the fee for the MDC plate was only $26, but there was a surcharge fee for "electric propulsion". Thus $55. So the state is not totally enlightened yet!

Best
Kent

[bowlofsalad]

How exactly is this 'electric propulsion' tacked onto the price logical or acceptable? It's like, 'oh you have a battery? Frock you'.

Would the police ignore a guy riding a non-motorized bicycle if he was hit by a car? I imagine either way, if the driver was neglectful, bad things would happen to them if they hit a bicycle, plate or not. Either way, I'd still ride like the next car driving by was about to rupture my spleen with his bumper. GWRHWGHGWHRHGHWGHW! (sound you make when a cars bumper ruptures your spleen)

[georgefromvt]

Any other Vermonters register their Ebikes? I've been riding mine for 3 years and no problems yet. Any ebiker lawyers willing to give legal opinion, advice? Doesn't Federal laws trump state laws?

[dogman dan]

Federal consumer product safety law has nothing whatsoever to do with your local motor vehicle codes. It's a law that applies to selling something you call an E-bike.

You ride under your state motor vehicle law. Whether you get noticed by the cops at all varies greatly.

[Kent]

Well at least for now its the riders option. You an continue as is as Dogman says, its up to the local police whether they want to bother with you or not. Remember, up to 20 mph you are a bike no matter how it is propelled, over 30 mph you are theoretically a motorcycle requiring registration and insurance, but here in Vermont the grey zone is 20-30mph. They no longer recognize scooters and mopeds as a separate class, instead "Motor Driven Cycle". Same requirements as a motorcycle. Since I spend a lot of time at 30mph+, I decided to go for it as stated above.

Part of getting legal, was getting hi/low beam and getting all my funky wiring looking respectable with a regular hi/low/turn signal/horn moped switch:

$10 on e-bay

light switch.jpg (80.82 KiB) Viewed 6935 times

Of course there was no wiring circuit with the switch. It didn't come with the other half of the connector. And the colors are random. And I have a "floating ground".
So it meant hours of endless fun here:

Adding as you go instead of pre-planning creates problems

Electrical box closeup.jpg (100.9 KiB) Viewed 6935 times

The issue with hi/low beam was another problem as I was quite happy with my front mount LED light, but I needed hi/low on a switch. I checked out aftermarket generic scooter/motorcycle lights but they are too bulky and draw too much current. I liked the thin flat set-up I had.So I invested in a single row LED strip which I mounted below the main one. That became the new low beam:

Northern Tool

Low beam.jpg (116.16 KiB) Viewed 6935 times

Low beam 2.jpg (69.13 KiB) Viewed 6935 times

And High beam:

Highbeam.jpg (92.62 KiB) Viewed 6935 times

Well for the inspection sticker, I took it down to the Suzuki dealer that sells Scooters. I figured he might be a bit more user friendly than the big multi-name dealer in town.

So after bringing him up to speed about the new "MDC" plate designation, he ran me thru all the usual lights, horn, etc. He was a little surprised by the light set-up, but nodded his head appreciatively. But then he got stuck looking at the tires. The rear tire is a regular moped tire-19" which he hardly glanced at but the front one was a bicycle "Big Apple" tire. The Big Apple has very shallow grooves. He kept looking for DOT lettering. Of course it wasn't there. I remained friendly while he said he would have to make a phone call and check on it. He was paranoid that if I had an accident they would trace the inspection sticker number back to him and give him grief. Oh no, I thought.

But he returned quickly enough and proceeded to inspect my registration and insurance papers and give me my sticker on the left fork.

He also said that turn signal lights had to be 12" apart. News to me but I didn't question it. His shop was full of machines that didn't qualify. So now I am fully legal. So it gives me a year to hunt down a DOT rated 24" cause he's not likely to let me slide again. Or I may have to bite the bullet and get a moped front rim from JRH.

So for those considering going legal, yes there are hassles and extra expenses along the way. But if keeping the cops off your back, not having to ride in the ditch anymore, and being able to get insurance are worthwhile goals, give it some thought.

( I still have my original 36 volt 20 amp bike which I take out for a relaxed ride... )

[SamTexas]

Congratulations. Unless I'm mistaken, you're the first successful person in getting an electric bicycle registered in the USA. Don't they require a VIN?

How much is insurance? And what does it cover?

[Kent]

Thanks. I got my insurance by tacking on to my auto policy. I don't know yet what the cost is, but it shouldn't be much.

For the "vin", I simply used the bikes frame number which is stamped under the cranks. They never checked it but it is there if they want to see it.

It would be interesting to see how many states adopt similar licensing categories such as "Motor Driven Cycles".

[Kent]

The safety sticker. You'd think that they could provide something that sticks...

It has to be in this location so the police can see it clearly

DMV sticker.jpg (116.17 KiB) Viewed 6871 times

Note how it says "Motorcycle and MDC"

Happy as a clam

Bike and Sticker.jpg (144.5 KiB) Viewed 6871 times

[Chalo]

How exactly is this 'electric propulsion' tacked onto the price logical or acceptable? It's like, 'oh you have a battery? Frock you'.

The rationale given at the state legislature level has been along the lines of "EVs cost the state revenue by not paying a fuel tax, therefore we'll take it out of them at registration time". One big problem with that approach is that fuel tax is proportional to use, and registration fees aren't.

It seems that elected officials can't get their heads around the idea that energy conservation is in the public interest, and that EVs are inherently energy-conserving compared to their liquid-fueled counterparts.

[Chalo]

Man, that is a dinky bike. Are you getting full leg extension on that, or is pedaling not your thing?

[Kent]

Chalo I was about to write and thank you in response to your first post which I thought was well written and helped clarify an issue.

Then I read your second post and am left scratching my head. It is a "motor driven cycle" with pedal backup on 24" tires. 2.35 Big Apples on a 19" frame isn't exactly "dinky"

Perhaps you are confusing this with the sub 20" tired builds which grace these pages?

[Chalo]

2.35 Big Apples on a 19" frame isn't exactly "dinky"

Except that it isn't even close to a 19" frame. Put a measuring tape on it if you don't believe me. Those cranks are under 7" long, center to center. Does that frame look almost three times as tall to you?

Maybe it's long enough, front-to-back, to be sort of similar to a true 19" frame, if you jack the seat up really high. But that seat is low. It looks to me like it's set up not to give full leg extension, unless you have really short legs. (If you do have really short legs, then that explains all.)

I recommend proper seat height on anything that has working pedals (motor-driven cycles included), or else why bother?

[Ykick]

I often get the "low seat" stink eye from pedalers. As opposed to maybe 100-200W pedal power I'd rather remain in the saddle and put my feet down at stops. Much easier navigating crowded pedestrian areas too.

Plus, I'm a "cruiser" or easy rider type and I just don't care that much about significant pedaling. That's why I got 25-30lbs of extra shit hanging off this thing...

[Kent]

"As opposed to maybe 100-200W pedal power I'd rather remain in the saddle and put my feet down at stops. Much easier navigating crowded pedestrian areas too."

Bingo!

[Chalo]

There are special bikes for folks who can't be bothered to step off the seat at a stop, but who still want to be able to pedal effectively. The Electra Townie is perhaps the best known example of a "flat foot" bike:



I guess not wanting to step off the seat is consistent with not wanting to pedal your e-bike, but that mindset is more characteristic of driving a car, don't you think?

Setting your bike's seat too low for effective pedaling, just so you can put your feet down, is a little like putting your kitchen counters on the floor so you don't have to stand up to cook.

[Ykick]

There are special bikes for folks who can't be bothered to step off the seat at a stop, but who still want to be able to pedal effectively. The Electra Townie is perhaps the best known example of a "flat foot" bike:



I guess not wanting to step off the seat is consistent with not wanting to pedal your e-bike, but that mindset is more characteristic of driving a car, don't you think?

Setting your bike's seat too low for effective pedaling, just so you can put your feet down, is a little like putting your kitchen counters on the floor so you don't have to stand up to cook.

Except for the 1,000's lbs difference, license/insurance, parking, exposure to elements and potential to kill other riders, sure. And if I decide to sit down and cook does that make me a bad person or something?

At my age and with my knees pedaling is not much of an option but glad to hear it works for you!

btw, I do like Townies along with Day 6 and a few other feet forward designs but lacking decent suspension is an issue with the weight and speed I'm running.

[Kent]

Chalo stop trying to convert us! This is our chosen mode of transportation and this forum is our avenue of expression. This view is expressed by many here.

To each their own...

[John in CR]

Nice eMDC Kent. Good job. It may not have the look someone would buy off the showroom floor, but who cares as long as it meets your needs. The fact that you built your own road legal transportation is icing on the cake.

John

[The fingers]

Congratulations on your important historical accomplishment.

[Kent]

Congratulations on your important historical accomplishment.

Many thanks!

[Kent]

Well its been a year and time for another inspection. Last years inspection-you've got to get inspected with a new sticker every year-got me a bit nervous as the inspecting mechanic had commented on my lack of DOT rated wheels and tires on the front (I had 24" Big Apples on the front and moped 19" on the rear) and even though he had passed me with some reluctance, I decided to go ahead and acquired a 19" DOT front wheel from JRH anyway.

I had been considering down sizing my front moped tire of 2.5 x 19 to 2.25 x 19 to reduce weight and load. But checking out tire specs carefully, 2.25's are 30 mph rated and are not DOTS approved while my current 2.5 was with a 70 mph rating. I guess that as you increase width, you increase carcass strength and theoretical speed capacity ?

I felt fairly comfortable returning to the same place for this years inspection but there are always nagging thoughts. Anyway, there was a different mechanic on and he was super interested in the bike and never checked tires/wheels. Just the basics-never checked for kill switches, green on light, blinking lights for when the turn signals were on, all kinds of other foolishness that one reads about.

Every year a different color

Inspection sticker (600 x 450).jpg (69.87 KiB) Viewed 6352 times

On a related thought, this is truly relaxed compared what others go through getting their vehicles legalized. As I noted above, there are many minute picky details that they could conjure up if they so choose. Rack one up for small town, more relaxed atmosphere but primarily up to the mood of the mechanic on whether he wants to abide "by the book" or just let common sense reign.

But there are those who go though bloody hell as Diogic relates in his thread " RE: Custom Stealth Bomber Build"

To be honest the freedom you have in the US when it comes to pimping, or building vehicles from scratch is second to none on the planet. There´s almost nothing that can´t be made street legal. All those laws and regulations here in Germany sometimes really give me a hard time.

Riding my build around Germany is considered a criminal offense.
Sad but true. It´s on the same step as selling drugs or harming someone else on purpose.

So, to prevent them from locking me up this is the only available option.

Huh.!? For what most of us here in the US do everyday, we could be locked up and have our bikes confiscated.

I'll pay my $25 year inspection fee and modest floater on my auto policy to be stret legal and not have to worry about the cops.

Expect for maybe speeding tickets

[Chalo]

But checking out tire specs carefully, 2.25's are 30 mph rated and are not DOTS approved while my current 2.5 was with a 70 mph rating. I guess that as you increase width, you increase carcass strength and theoretical speed capacity ?

Nope. It's just a matter of the specific construction of each tire, or more likely the certification the manufacturer opted for to suit its intended market.

Bicycle tires usually have no load or speed rating, but that doesn't mean that they are only suitable for zero load or speed. I'd trust a Schwalbe Big Ben or 2-ply Maxxis Hookworm over many DOT-rated moped tires.

[Kent]

I was up at the DMV this morning to get my motorcycle license for my Honda Helix 250cc scooter. Although totally committed to electric, I bought this because of range and excellent fuel economy of 70 mpg. And it can carry a load of stuff.

Anyway, while I was there I picked up the Vermont Motorcycle Manual. To clarify, this is what it says about MDC, formerly mopeds:

"Motor-driven cycle" means any vehicle equipped with two or three wheels, a power source of providing up to maximum of two brake horsepower and a piston or rotor displacement of 50cc if a combustion engine is used, which will propel the vehicle, unassisted, at a speed not to exceed 30 mph, with a power system that functions automatically only, not requiring clutching or shifting."

And then it says:

"If the following statements are true, you have a MDC. If any of the statements are not true, then you have a motorcycle:

1. vehicle is designed to travel at 30 mph or less on a level road surface
2. the vehicle has a combustable engine that is 50cc or less
3. the vehicle shifts automatically.


Then to add complexity, in the "what is a motorcycle" section, it states "...is two or three wheels, weighs less than 1500 lbs, has the capacity to maintain posted highway speed limits, and which uses electricity as its primary motive power (so) shall be registered as a motorcycle but the operator of such vehicle shall not be required to have a motorcycle license nor comply with provisions requiring headgear."

HUH? So for your 60 mph electric motorcycle, you need a motorcycle plate, but your not required to have a motorcycle license or wear a helmet.

This goes to show that whatever one's views on the subject of going legal may be, it is worthwhile to know these statures for your jurisdiction so if you ever do get pulled over and the officer fusses about not being a legal vehicle, you can quote from the standards or even show him if you keep a copy on you.

2c for what its worth.

AS a side note, I ran into someone who had a 3 wheeled motorcycle engined Morgan Replica. These were low slung sportscars built in England before the war and are now considered highly collectible. This retired doctor had bought himself a beautiful replica in the neighborhood of $70k +. Enjoying his retirement.

Interesting enough, although it was definitely a car with two seats, doors, a windshield, steering wheel and all, the fact that it was a three wheeler meant that he had to get his mandatory safety inspection at the motorcycle dealer as it was considered a motorcycle.

Go figure.