12 FET Infineon Controller Problem. - Now Fixed

[Storapa]

Morning Folks,

I have a 12 FET Infineon controller that is new out of the box. I hooked it up to a Crystalyte HS3540 at the weekend. There was an issue in that the motor would only run for a moment, then cut out. If I released the throttle I could do the same again.

I am using 20s pack so the voltage was around 76 volts. To conduct the tests below I used a test pack at 38 volts.

I connect the motor to an e-bike tester. The halls and phase of the motor appear to be ok.

I then checked the throttle. This also appears to check out ok.

I finally connected the motor controller. There is no 5v light showing on the tester and the controller output test shows nothing. I checked the Mosfets using the Grin Tech method. Everything is ok.

Has anybody else seen this problem and does anybody have an idea as to what it might be? I’m out of ideas at the moment.

 

[NeilP]

OK, so the tester shows no 5 volt output....is that at 38 volts?

Did you check the 5volt output from the controller manually with a voltmeter?

on the throttle plug check between

At 38 volts it could well be that the controller is shut down because of the low voltage cut off (LVC) setting built in tot he controller.

who supplied the controller?
Do you have a programming lead and program header on the controller.
you may need to re program for the controller to run a 38 volt. XPD software or Lyens or Crazymanys own software.


I'd try back at the 20 series again. if you bought it from lyen and you specified 20 series he may have set the LVC to 60 volts or so...so below that voltage there won't be a 5 volt output.

Is it a 4110 controller? or a lower voltage one? if it is not a 4110 controller then it may be you have cooked it internally at 20 series.

 

[Storapa]

Hi Neil,

Thanks for the reply.

Yes, no 5 volt output at 38 volts. I will test again tonight at 76 volts.

I didn't manually check the 5 volt output, but I will do this evening. This is at the throttle plug?

EM3ev supplied the controller and it is a 4110 version (12 FET IRFB4110). I bought the programming lead at the same time. Paul was kind enough to forward the programming software to me yesterday.

 

[NeilP]

Great,
Well if paul does not include some basic initial settings files , his defsult settings, ask him for it, so you can always re program to default

Yes, check the 5 volt at throttle or hall plug or cruise or any of the orhers that have a red wire.
Reds will usually be either 5 volt or battety voltage.

Many peole prefer the XPD software, there is a thread on here about it, with links to download page on Google Docs

 

[Storapa]

Hi Neil,

I'll check the 5 volt output this evening and report back in the morning.

I had a look at the XPD software earlier in the week and downloaded it.

Thanks for your time so far.

Cheers,

Darren.

 

[Storapa]

I checked the controller with a 76 volt pack and then a 58 volt pack. The results were the same for each set of tests.

The hall wires (red and black) from the controller returned a voltage of 0.3 volts.

The throttle returned a voltage of 0.5 volts.

There is clearly a problem with the 5 volt supply. Any ideas what it might be?

 

[dnmun]

you do not know if you are getting circuit current to the controller.

 

[Storapa]

How would I check that I was getting a circuit current to the controller?

 

[dnmun]

measure it on the small red wire that delivers the circuit current to the controller. if there is no current then maybe your battery is turned off.

 

[Storapa]

Ok. I did check the battery, as I built it myself from Individual cells.

It was delivering current to the controller input wires (the big ones). Also if I switch the controller ignition switch off, the small voltage that I was seeing, dropped off.

 

[dnmun]

then open the controller and measure the voltage on the 12V rail and see if there is voltage on the 5V rail too. you may have the 5V shorted to the throttle or hall sensor plug but there is a resistor on the hall sensor power so it should not pull the 5V down on the throttle if it is shorted.

 

[Storapa]

Thanks for the reply.

I'll open the controller up this evening and have a look for the 12 volt rail and measure the voltage. I'll do the same with the 5 volt rail.

Are both rails fairly easy to spot?

 

[Storapa]

I opened the controller and the 5 volt feed was down around 0.6 volts. I am not sure how to check the voltage regulator at the moment.

I also noticed that one or both of the small capacitors in the region of the 5 volt voltage regulator were hot, somewhere in the region of 50 C (120F). Is is normal under no load conditions? Temperature measured using an infrared heat gun, so difficult to concentrate on a very small spot.

Some photos will be posted in the morning.

 

[dnmun]

sounds like the caps on the 5V rail are shorted. can you measure the 12V rail? what is the voltage input to the regulator?

 

[Storapa]

I measured the three pins in the voltage regulator using the battery ground. The outer pins measured +5 volts. The centre pin had a fluctuating voltage from 9 to 10 volts.

I'm struggling to find the 12 volt rail.

Can you suggest where it is. I can only find labels for + 5 volts.

Thanks for your patience btw.

 

[NeilP]

Morning chap, sorry I did not get back earlier, been camping down the farm still in tent now, but been busy doing othe stuff. I see dnmum has told you all there is to tell really.

Over the years the front ends of these Xie Chang based boards and how they supply 12 and 5 volt has changed and I am not fully up to speed on the newer one ..if they have changed at all.

Some of the earlier ones just had big voltage dropper resistors to start with...which when run at higher voltages did get hot, failed, melted solder etc. Also I had some issues with voltage dropper resistors being SMD resistors , three in a row, along one edge of the board. they would melt the solder and drop off the board.

I have some 5volt failure threads on here too. Best hint i can give with my time constraints is to search my posts for references to this sort of topic.

I had one failure where , the 5 v reg needed to be 'kick started' in to action. It would not run initially, but sticking 4.5 volt 'up it backwards' from one of the 5volt out lines would gt it to run until the controller was turned on. You could try an external 4.5 to 5 volt feed too and see what happens.

I have about 24 pages of threads if you view all my posts..I have flicked through a few but can't find the one I was looking for. But if you have the time scan all for a suitable title and see if there is anything that may help. 6 get 18 fet etc, all the same front end really ..so any controller based threads

 

[Storapa]

Morning Neil,

Man, a tent sounds nicer than where I am at the moment (at work). I'll search your posts. This problem is driving me nuts. The bike is built and ready. This is the last bit of the jigsaw. I'll hopefully know a lot more about controllers at the end of all this.

Enjoy the rest of the day.

Cheers,

Darren.

 

[NeilP]

Hi Darren.
Stil in the tent now, looking across thunderstorm washed meadow My day off today. Laptop on coffee table, french coffee pot just about to bubble over on stove
800m WiFi bridge back to the house and solar setup connecting me to the outside world

Do you know Morton Morrel Ag/ equistrian college? I studied there many years ago. Must get up there to look around some time

 

[dnmun]

I measured the three pins in the voltage regulator using the battery ground. The outer pins measured +5 volts. The centre pin had a fluctuating voltage from 9 to 10 volts.

I'm struggling to find the 12 volt rail.

Can you suggest where it is. I can only find labels for + 5 volts.

Thanks for your patience btw.

look for a part labeled 7812 and that is the 12V regulator. look for the capacitor that is attached to the two of the traces from it. that will show you which trace is 12V and which is ground. the other lead brings current from the input power resistor.

 

[NeilP]

Try here:
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=46888
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=35418

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=39564

Also a few other useful but not connected controller threads
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10833
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=23745
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=30137

 

[d8veh]

On that board, I don't see a 12v regulator. Instead, there's a transformer next to the 5v regulator and a capacitor between the regulator's supply and ground. Is that where it gets its 12v from?

 

[NeilP]

On that board, I don't see a 12v regulator./quote]

I posted a load of links to different boards, you will need to be a bit more specific

 

[Storapa]

Hi Gents,

Thanks for the replies. I'm going to be busy this weekend. Paul (EM3ev) was also kind enough to send some info through. I'll keep going and report back.

Neil, yup, I know the Morton Morrel college well. We are just down the road. If you are in the area, let me know and we'll have some coffee or a few beers.

 

[Storapa]

Hello Folks,

I finally got the controller repaired.

I put the controller to one side as I wanted to continue with the design and build of my new bike. The bike is a ground up design and build of a new frame and swing arm. That will be another series of posts shortly.

Paul (EM3EV) was very helpful whilst I was setting up my second identical controller. He provided some very sound advice. The test bike was soon up and running. Some weeks later Paul sent me a mail and asked me to send the broken controller back and he would have it repaired and posted back to the UK FOC, even though there was a good chance that it was my fault due to inexperience.

So there you have it, I have a spare working controller, thanks to Paul, Moon and the team at EM3EV. Service doesn't get any better than that. I just thought that it was worth letting you guys know.