2 ebike builds, 1x hub drive MP, 1x chain drive hpm5000b

[nechaus]

Hello,

This is my first build that I have posted on this site.

-I got a Specialized Dual suspension bike, cost me like $1700 from the bike Store ( ill prob snap it in half on my first jump)
-I have a Hub Motor from Hyena, its pretty small and im sure id easily smoke it, $280 . ( not sure what brand it is, but the coils are about the size of my Pubes
-I have a Few controllers but im using a Kelly Controller KBL09151 $369
-20s 2 p, 84 volts hot off the charge @ 16 AH capacity
-Quality Back pack for the batteries.
-Grin Stainless steel beefy torque arms

Im going to Run this motor at %50 of the rated kelly controller power. Should be 37.5 amps to 75amps
Cant tell if that is phase amps or battery amps untill i get it all hooked up

 

[nechaus]

This motor is not going to be on my bike for to long, depending on how it goes, i may change it to the magic pie.
I dont know the brand model kv rating only that it has a 48 volt sticker on it which does not tell me much.

I really like the MP3, they are so underrated, just look ugly and need to be painted to be stealthy here in Australia.

What i want out of this build

- Not to be bothered by the police
-reliable @ 30 km Range Ride with out stopping
- light weight.
- safe
-If i can get an Ultra Low kv winding motor id like that to use it off road, other wise this bike will be used 99% of the time on the road.

 

[nechaus]

I should be getting

x16 Lipo zippy @ 8 ah today and 3 chargers + 1000 watt power supply
WOOHOO
will take pics when i get it

 

[Hyena]

Only 27mm ?? I was told by the manufacturer it was 30mm
It should still take some punishment if ridden sensibly. My daily rider has seen 5kw peak for the last 12 months and is still fine. With the air cooling you've done beefing up the phase wires from outside the axle should be all it needs. As long as you don't lug it up steep hills at full throttle it should be up to the task.

Nice bike too

This thread should probably be in the pictures and videos forum, though it seems people put their build threads all over the shop :lol:

 

[nechaus]

Hey man its all good, im very happy with it.

I have my KBL kelly running at 40 % motor current and battery current. It draws a max of about 3.4kw on ca now full throttle and reaches about 60kmh on the flat. I generally just throttle to average 1kw to 1.5kw for hill climbs reaching speeds of 40kmh and as slow as 20 kmh depending on the grade, im always thinking of motor temp as i have not wired in a thermistor yet.
Today i went for a ride and after it was toasty yummy coil smell, used about 500 watt hours in a 15km
I put the hose on ever so slightly over the case and cool it fast when i got back, bit of fresh steam . lol
I believe it is a medium torque wind between ht and hs for e.g. Perfect for my girlfriends bike running a lower voltage and phase amps.

Today i got another Motor, im going to prob test it out 2moro, its from emtb.com.au the lowest kv one they had to sell. another 9c

I Also have a magic pie on the way in shipping. im going to compare them all
I will then decide if i should rig up a dual motor system, but i don't believe this bike can take that much weight with my weight and handle that well.
If i cannot use all my battery pack with any of these motors with out frying them and not worrying about heat, I may change to a 24 inch wheel

 

[nechaus]

I got my magic pie today,

It looks just as wide as the other motors, but a larger diameter
It really does look more robust than the others. less wheel and more motor

 

[neptronix]

Oh yeah.
You are going to love the pie. It will leave your 9C-sized hubs in the dust. I recommend an 18FET controller for it and tons of amps. Make sure you upgrade those awful stock wires.

 

[nechaus]

Hey neptronix.

yeah i got a beefy as controller...

I just had the hardest time pulling the side covers off the magic pie... the magnets are strong, they are not wide, but there are so many of them.
The Magic pies axle has a cut out for the phase wires, i may try and ever so slightly make it bigger.


this motor had an internal controller. i just removed it. i also drilled the hell out of the sides.

after a coffee, some food and a break, ill start soldering on the phase wires and reassemble the motor.
ill take some pics. Really could put some fans inside the pies case.



Im already in love with the magic pie

 

[Hyena]

I got my magic pie today,

It looks just as wide as the other motors, but a larger diameter

Really ? I wonder if they've changed since I tested the first ones. I found they were noticably narrower than their normal '1000w' motor and that the performance wasn't as good, for all the hype of the bigger diametre. Fed enough power they'll do well no doubt but watt for watt I reckon the 9C style and size motors are better.

 

[nechaus]

the stator magnets are very narrow. il get some pics

Iv had there 750 watt golden motor hub b4, they are really quite powerfull. i had a high torque winding on the last one i had.

So who knows what the winner out of these 3 hubs for my use will be.




Hey neptronix.
What the most power you have ran continuously on the magic pie for 20 mins ? and had not to much heat to worry about ?

 

[Hyena]

I think the narrow stator on these really is a limitation and from my tests I found that the larger circumference didn't compensate sufficiently for the narrower stator. A 30mm one or bigger would be great. They're fairly noisy buggers though compared to other DD hubs. I imagine an air cooled one would sound like a geared hub with metal gears

I take it you got the MP2 and not 3 ? The MP3 has a fan in the centre of the axle which should be pretty good for cooling even with the stock controller removed.

 

[nechaus]

Yeah man i hear you,

its only the magic pie 2, However, its got plenty of room inside the motor for little fans + it has more metal for heat dissipation
The Coils are also thicker than the Nine Continent
I can only test it and see which motor out of all 3 i like.

I actually reached 68 kmh on the flat about 30 mins ago with that first motor i got from you hyena.
I love the speed but just not the low end torque. however i should just put my controller on full and see how it feels, but im 99% sure this controller will easily fry these smaller hub motors.

 

[neptronix]

I think you may be behind the times, hyena. luke says that it has equivalent power as the HT/HS motors. I ran mine at a constant 3000-3500w hill torture test today and couldn't get it above 120c. Even at that high temp, it still took off like a rocket, indicating that at 25S/60A, it had MORE power to give.

I've ran mine at a peak 8kW and 4kW continuous..
Look at what snellemin is doing, he got his up faster than mine, 46mph in a 26" wheel

This accelerates so much faster than my 9C-size motor, it's like it can handle double the power, and i did put some major power into my 9C...

I know i am in a 20 inch wheel so i have an advantage.. but when i heard about oooscorpionooo running 5kW on his 26er up a >10% grade and the worst that happened was that his halls fried, plus the fact that luke recommended it when i asked for something that can handle a 20 mile hill climber... i knew this motor was something special.

I know at one point, there was a wimpier magic pie going around, but that does not seem to be the case here. This thing beats the crap out of my MAC and 9C...

 

[nechaus]

Some Pictures of the pie

 

[nechaus]

im trying to find some massive wheel bearings so i can liquid cool one of the nine continents.
I really want to try run one of these at 5 kilowatt continuous for an hour with Low low heat

 

[neptronix]

Wee bit over 18mm magnets.. nice, i thought it was something more like 16-17mm.

You sure drilled the hell out of that cover. I see you are trying to make a monster pie too

Have you seen my pie vids btw?

 

[nechaus]

Just reporting Back,

Iv installed the Magic pie on my bike, Turned my controller up to 55% motor and battery current.
It now pulls 5.08 kw at peak. went for a 8k ride, came back and it was warm, but not hot.

IT also cools down alot faster than any other hub motor iv had, I love this motor


I think its good for about 20km ride at this power level going mental with the throttle

 

[nechaus]

Hey neptronix,

I sure have seen your videos, 30s one was pretty damm cool.


my controller is good for about 120 volts, i think i should change it to 25s as i have a spare 2 zippy 5s 8ah
anyway, earlier on, at first the magic pie was really loud. I then changed a noise reduction controller setting,
Id have to say its about 50% quieter now.

 

[sico]

Nice work mate, 68kph is damn quick. 8)

Do you have a pic of the bike as it was when you ran it? How did you mount the battery?

 

[nechaus]

MY gf called me weird because i just went for a night ride, wanted to test it in cold conditions

I used 10 ah out of my 16, and heaps of hard out take offs, the magic pie did not even over heat or get to hot to be worried. It took 5 kw on some hills and take offs. once i reach about 50 kmh on a flat it only uses 2kw or so continuous.

I think i can run more power through this. I might have to try 7 kw 2mora. I think ill keep the voltage the same because i like about 40/50 kmh top speed

The battery is in my bag, the controller is ZIP tied to the side of the bike because its pretty big.
I have not taken pics of my bike yet because i assembled all the connections in like 4 hours and its all such a mess.
I need to tidy up all my wiring and make a proper controller mount/box


Im really really surprised how well this motor performs.
It puts a smile on my face when i do a big hill run at full throttle and get to the top, get off my bike and feel hardly any motor heat on the case!!

 

[nechaus]

some pics

 

[Hyena]

I think you may be behind the times, hyena. luke says that it has equivalent power as the HT/HS motors.

Hmmm, maybe they've lifted their game then, in fairness the one I tested was the V1 but then I can't imagine they'd be hugely different given they haven't really changed much physically. I'll have to buy a newer one and give it a run. I struggle with the idea that they're as powerful as the H35s given the stators are exactly twice as wide in them but the pies circumference is only marginally bigger. Didn't ebikes.ca have the larger pie sized hubs there for a little while and then went back to the old ones ? If Luke has tested them though then that's that. He has much better equipment at his disposal than the rest of us.
My bum dyno is only 86% accurate :lol:

This thing beats the crap out of my MAC and 9C...

Did you power the 9C with the same controller / voltage ?
The videos I recall seeing (possibly yours actually) weren't THAT different to comparable motors, especially considering the tiny wheel size and high voltage. I also rode a pie recent laced to a 16" motor bike rim (using spokes that were like 3/4" long :lol: ) and expected it go well for it's small size but it didn't have the same punch as my modded 9C in a 26" rim. Maybe it was the old weaksauce pie too though. I'm not trying to be negative, just curious.

Sorry for being slightly OT nechaus.

Your test rig and night runs look and sound uncannily like mine :lol:
The only time I get to myself is when the missus and kids are asleep so I'm often out at midnight buzzing up and down the street. Lucky these things don't make any noise
68km/hr on 84 makes it what, somewhere between an 8x8 and 9x7 equivalent wind ?
Thats some close spaced air holes around the rim!
Any reason you didn't put any intake holes close to the centre ?
With the big side cover surface area these could be a prime candidate for oil cooling

 

[neptronix]

Well hyena, i don't have an explanation as to why they are so powerful, all i know is that mine have mind blowing torque. the 1606 was actually just too tall to be easily spoked into a small wheel, so it never got proper testing 'karma' had good luck with his, but it was not explored too well otherwise.

This motor sheds heat really well. And it's so torquey, at least in a 20" wheel, that i was doing power wheelies on 15S/33A the first time i hooked it up, LOL.

Yes, i did throw 4kW into a 26" 9C style motor and found it really lacking. It would get hot and saggy on 2.5kW and it was just pathetic IMHO. It could handle good peak power, but did not make good power for what you put into it, so i'm sure it was saturating. But the MAC responded a hell of a lot better to the same power..

I had given the MXUS motor the same treatment as the pie and MAC - 12G and very short phase wires, >56A, and 72 volts minimum.

It's not a totally unbiased test because i am comparing a 20" wheel to some 26" in a mid-high speed wind, but even if i fed the high speed winds tons of amps, they did not compare and just got really hot in a short period of time.

But i will say it here.. when i first hit the throttle on the 20" pie it was terrifying even on low voltage and amperage, until i got used to it. I'd expect a crystalyte HT to perform similarly.. maybe a wee bit better..

[youtube]SoAnGuGAK-s[/youtube]

Me running it on a meager 20S

 

[nechaus]

well the max amps i see is 70 amps from the battery to controller. and max watts is about 5.08kw or so...
max speed on the pie is about 45 on a big bill and 55ish on the flat...
the biggest thing is the torque, feels a hell of alot stronger.
ill have to compare it to my 6x10 nine c that i have not yet tried.



The reason why i drilled the edge, its right over the windings, spose i should do more drilling lol, id love to just go nuts and drill it all, but not to much to make it weak. ( it may look weak in the photos, i can assure you there is still plenty of metal in between the holes)
My only concern is a small rock flying in their and making a mess of windings inside the hub motor.
The magic pie cools down faster than any other hub motor iv seen, its rather shocking
I think its hard to judge the performance with videos unless its a drag race with same setup, or dyno


My friend is over, he had 2 brushed unite 1kw motors running a single speed chain setup, one blew 2 days ago, looked like the commutator welded off.

 

[neptronix]

Only 70 amps.. look at what snellemin is doing.. makes your bike look weak sauce.. crank those amps up buddy, join the 8kW club

But make sure you do install a temp sensor like i did :lol: