A123 12V7 battery, available for purchase online

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countermeasure

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A123 commercial division just dropped me an e-mail. A UPS size battery is available now. It's only 4.6Ah.

Here is the link. http://www.buya123batteries.com/default.asp
$129.95 each.

The battery has 8 M1A cells. With over voltage, under voltage, temperature, balancing circuitry built in. Two fuses built in. One is a replaceable 30A. Another is non-replaceable 120A.

You can probably replace the ATO blade style fuse with a 40A version.
http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?qs=cR7Qvk1oinnxW2OeUAnGZg%3D%3D

Undesirable characteristics: There is no nominal weight defined in spec sheet. The terminals are 1/4" faston tabs for UPS application. The modules can be run 10 paralleled, 4 series maximum. 4S sounds low, but I think it's limited by the fuse rating. Non-replaceable 120A fuse.

Anyone going to buy one and hack it?

*edited some typos.
 
countermeasure said:
A123 commercial division just dropped me an e-mail. A UPS size battery is available now. It's only 7Ah.

Here is the link. http://www.buya123batteries.com/default.asp
$129.95 each.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the link. I'm always interested in what folks are doing with A123 cells. So to do that to match a 20ah pack (as I built), I'd need three of these at $129.95 a pop, for $389.85. I paid 12 x $18.41 plus $89 for Agniusm's kit (less shipping in both cases), for $309.92, but without over/under protection. So I'd say this is a good deal. I'd still do what I did using the AMP20 cells. :mrgreen:
 
The problem is that these are only 12 volts@7AH each. Three would give 36 volts@7ah . You would need 9 to equal 36volts@21AH.
Perhaps not such a great deal as 20 AH A123 pouches @12S with agniusms kit.
otherDoc
 
docnjoj said:
The problem is that these are only 12 volts@7AH each. Three would give 36 volts@7ah . You would need 9 to equal 36volts@21AH.
Perhaps not such a great deal as 20 AH A123 pouches @12S with agniusms kit.
otherDoc
Click to expand...
Oh, is that right? Yea, guess so. So about 3 times more expensive then. Hmmm. Thanks for catching that mistake on my part. :lol:
 
It's awesome that A123 is finally offering these themselves, but it's just really hard to get excited about ~$1.6/wh. I wonder what the total series protection circuits are rated for?
 
Those are 12V, 7AH, with 9 unit package we get to 36V, 21AH at 3S3P, for:
LM 12V7 Carton (9 units) - Our Price: $1,224.00.
There may be an advantage for some in having a genuine A123 built pack to very high standards of specification and manufacturing with full internal protections for the cells & battery. I wonder if there's a possibility for a group buy to get the price down?? :?: :idea:

The site page http://www.buya123batteries.com/articles.asp?ID=250 has a great easy to understand explaination of why the A123 battery is the best available right now, something both my independent research, that of field experts and my experience have so-far corroborated. If it were not for the factory welding mistake and Victpower salvage of cells at half-tab, the price indicated would be fair market value.
 
Where do you see 7ah? I see 4.6 ah

ALM 12V7 Specifications:

Nominal voltage: 13.2 V
Max Discharge Current: 30 A
Charge Current: 10 A
Nominal Capacity: 4.6 Ah
Energy: 60 Wh
Power: 345 W
Cycle Life: >7,500 Cycles at 25°C, 0.8C/0.8C, 100% DOD
Core cell: ANR26650 Cylindrical Cell
Dimensions: 5.95 in/151.0 mm x 3.93 in/99.7 mm x 2.54 in/64.5 mm
Weight: 1.875 lb/0.85 kg
Terminals: Amp Faston 250 (0.25 in)
Case material: ABS
 
Tom Tom said:
Where do you see 7ah? I see 4.6 ah

ALM 12V7 Specifications:

Nominal voltage: 13.2 V
Max Discharge Current: 30 A
Charge Current: 10 A
Nominal Capacity: 4.6 Ah
Energy: 60 Wh
Power: 345 W
Cycle Life: >7,500 Cycles at 25°C, 0.8C/0.8C, 100% DOD
Core cell: ANR26650 Cylindrical Cell
Dimensions: 5.95 in/151.0 mm x 3.93 in/99.7 mm x 2.54 in/64.5 mm
Weight: 1.875 lb/0.85 kg
Terminals: Amp Faston 250 (0.25 in)
Case material: ABS
Click to expand...
Good point Tom Tom. Fooled me. I wonder why they call them 12v7? They are an even poorer deal than I thought.
otherDoc
 
docnjoj said:
Tom Tom said:
Where do you see 7ah? I see 4.6 ah

ALM 12V7 Specifications:

Nominal voltage: 13.2 V
Max Discharge Current: 30 A
Charge Current: 10 A
Nominal Capacity: 4.6 Ah
Energy: 60 Wh
Power: 345 W
Cycle Life: >7,500 Cycles at 25°C, 0.8C/0.8C, 100% DOD
Core cell: ANR26650 Cylindrical Cell
Dimensions: 5.95 in/151.0 mm x 3.93 in/99.7 mm x 2.54 in/64.5 mm
Weight: 1.875 lb/0.85 kg
Terminals: Amp Faston 250 (0.25 in)
Case material: ABS
Click to expand...
Good point Tom Tom. Fooled me. I wonder why they call them 12v7? They are an even poorer deal than I thought.
otherDoc
Click to expand...

They are not a poor deal at all. We look at them from our perspective to use on EV transportation and they are marketed as ICE car battery direct replacement which is a good deal. Good car battery costs perhaps even more than that but this one will last forever in ICE car situation.
This why i asked about internals if i can adapt my kit to build car battery with 20AH capacity.
 
A123 Financial and Business Metric Summary (From A123's own site http://ir.a123systems.com/results.cfm )


($ millions, except margins) 2Q11 1Q12 2Q12
Revenue: $36.4 $10.9 $17.0
Gross Profit/(Loss): ($17.5) ($90.8) ($29.2)
Gross Margin: -48.2% -834% -171.7%
Net Income/(Loss): ($55.4) ($125.0) ($82.9)
Adjusted EBITDA: ($41.1) ($120.0) ($52.4)
Cash and Equivalents: $294.9 $113.1 $47.7
Product Revenue Mix:
Transportation $24.4 $4.5 $7.0
Grid NM NM NM
Commercial $5.2 $2.8 $4.5
Product shipments: 42.6 MWh 10.0 MWh 16.3 MWh


Even at $1.60Wh for these, they are still selling at a loss. Or rather, our american tax payers all ready paid the other $1-2/Wh for them to be made to get sold at ~half the cost of making them.

The the biggest year for them, they moved 42.6MWh of product.
That's enough to make 1775 Nissan Leaf batteries. YET! You could buy all 1775 Complete Nissan LEAF cars at $30,000usd each for less money than it cost A123 to manufacture just an equal amount of battery capacity.

Is it just me, or does it seem a little kooky that you can buy a complete nissan leaf car that includes a 24KWhr battery for less money than A123 uses to produce 24KWhr of cells?
 
There is something wrong about the whole deal. Would their tech is more expensive than other batt manufacturers? (nanophosfate). Shouldn't that more expensive.
 
liveforphysics said:
A123 Financial and Business Metric Summary .... Is it just me, or does it seem a little kooky that you can buy a complete nissan leaf car that includes a 24KWhr battery for less money than A123 uses to produce 24KWhr of cells?
Click to expand...
Not not kooky at all. A123 had the best team at the outset, establishing a sound business plan and so forth. A business plan takes into account projected volumes under certain market conditions. Those conditions did not emerge - the market did not materialize - the financial crisis and all. Those were beyond A123's ability to respond, being a startup. Unfortunate. They must meet their original volume projections to achieve profitability. It is common practice for a company to loose money in the early years until their market potential comes to fruition. It is questionable now, however, whether such will occur - this company may never be profitable.

The take away for the insightful is NOW is absolutely the best time to buy those A123 AMP20 half-tabs from Victpower (or others), as we may never see them again. There is still a chance this company may fold and close the factory.
 
With 20 of these one could build a 4s5p pack which would be 48V and 23Ah. I tried to add 3 cartons (27 batteries) to my cart and the actual price per carton is $1169.00. Also, they won't let me add 3 cartons. They claim to only have two in stock. I wonder what the supply for these going forward is going to be?

So can these things be charged by a normal 12V auto-style charger?

Tom

EDIT: Never mind on my question, the answer is yes: http://www.buya123batteries.com/v/vspfiles/images/a123/406017-001_ALM_12V7_Users_Guide.pdf
 
jussumguy said:
tome said:
With 20 of these one could build a 4s5p pack which would be 48V and 23Ah
Click to expand...

Paralleling for higher charge currents is not supported at this time.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...


I saw that, but it was put in an odd location in the document which made me think it might have been a leftover that was meant to be removed. After that statement the document goes through exactly how to do that. Odd.
-Tom
 
I have been a long time lurker and have building battery packs for a while now. I thought it might be of interest to some of you to know that you can now get 12v LIp04 lead acid replacements for scooters direct from them. I know for us pack builders this is a bit expensive but for someone that doesnt want to mess with building battery packs this is a great solution at about 50% of the weight of the original battery.

ALM-12V7-B-2.jpg

ALM 12V7 Specifications:

Price:$136.00

Nominal voltage: 13.2 V
Max Discharge Current: 30 A
Charge Current: 10 A
Nominal Capacity: 4.6 Ah
Energy: 60 Wh
Power: 345 W
Cycle Life: >7,500 Cycles at 25°C, 0.8C/0.8C, 100% DOD
Core cell: ANR26650 Cylindrical Cell
Dimensions: 5.95 in/151.0 mm x 3.93 in/99.7 mm x 2.54 in/64.5 mm
Weight: 1.875 lb/0.85 kg
Terminals: Amp Faston 250 (0.25 in)
Case material: ABS

http://info.a123systems.com/blog/bi...phosphate-ALM-Lead-Acid-Replacement-Batteries
 
Not that bad a price, for 20 ah. But is that a 7 ah?

Edit, Woah, even less than 7ah. Guess that is a bit pricy.
 
Nope it is actually 4.6ah, kinda small for a scooter. It is meant for starting gas engine things where it can put out 200 amps for 5 seconds and the be recharged by the alternator. I'm not seeing these replacing 20AH A123cells any time soon.
otherDoc
 
4.6Ah A123 is actually 4.5Ah useable. 7Ah SLA when used in motive application is barely 4Ah on a good day. Same range with better performance, many more charge cycles, 1/2 the weight. Other than price, not bad.

30A seems low though? I still have some of these similar 2.3Ah developer cells and pulling 100A doesn't break much sweat. 200A should be doable for 4S2P which is likely what's inside this package.
 
Yeah A123 themselves were spamming the forum. I welcome their participation, but if they think ebikers are going to be excited about that they're sadly mistaken...

They did a really nice job, it's just too pricey for our application.
 
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