Adding a TSDZ8 to an older Hase Kettwiesel delta trike

[Eviltwin68]

I picked up an older steel frame (2005 or earlier) Hase Kettwiesel recumbent delta trike. If you are not familiar with Hase they are probably the best delta style trikes made, especially if you judge them by how much they cost. I'm generally a cheapskate when it comes to used bikes but I will admit to spending more on this bike than I usually do. I bought this one online from the BicycleMan in NY and had it shipped down in a box after being taken apart and carefully packed.



A couple of days of fun and it was back together and on the road. But my was it slow compared to my other two recumbents which both have mid drives.




Last year I built a third recumbent with a mid drive, a Sun EZ3 which is an ok bike with the mid drive but it mostly sat in the shed since space is tight in the garage and I was sharing a battery from one of the other two bikes. So I decided I would move the motor and battery from the Sun onto the Hase. That means there would be three bikes in the garage, but the Hase has the ability to do this:



Today was the first day of working on the Hase delta. Unlike the other bikes, this one has some quirks that I had to work around. Where to put the battery and mount and would the motor work with the drivetrain. I figured I would start with the battery.

Its a long bike with a main tube and under seat steering with a long rod on the left of the bike. It has plastic black pex tube for the chain on the right that also limits where the battery can sit. I thought about just using a triple bob mount on the main tube but the battery is just a bit too wide and would push into the chain and disrupt the chainline a bit. Not enough room under the seat either so that left somewhere on the back between the wheels.

I ended up repurposing the mount I made to sit on the back of the curved tube. I cut a bit out of the aluminum to accommodate the cluster. A couple of smaller U bolts seems to hold it in place tight enough.



I next tackled mounting the motor. Its a TSSDZ8 that worked well enough on the Sun. I pulled off the old crankset and slid in the motor. Normally I would hang the motor down, but in this case the steering rod makes that impossible, unless you want to monkey with it and I did not. So it will sit on the top of the main tube and should work just as well.



That's the progress up to date. I'll post more as I go along.

 

[bananu7]

I'd check if there are any water ingress ports that might be more exposed in this motor orientation. For example, the water can now drip downwards on the cables into the casing, if there's a leak there.

Also am I seeing it right but does the chain only power the right wheel?

 

[Eviltwin68]

That is something to think about. I don't normally ride in the rain but I could put some RTV or some other sealant over the holes for the wires.

Yes you are seeing it right. Quite a few delta trikes that use canted wheels only drive one wheel. Riding on the road you really dont notice it at all. Hase included as an accessory a differential to spin both wheels but on trikes this old they are rare as hens teeth. On newer trike models like the Trigo I think its about a 600 dollar add on. The Greenspeed Anura has one as standard equipment.

This is a pic of wikipedia of one. It's a newer model than mine but it give you an idea of what it would look like.

 

[Eviltwin68]

Made some progress on the build today. New battery came in a few days early thanks to being shipped by FEDEX. Its a 48v 17.5 no name in a hailong style case. Its identical to the battery that was being shared off one of the other bikes, so I can use the mount that was set up for the bike I pulled the parts off of. So with that I was spurred on to get the parts moved over on to this new frame.

I got a T mount for the display from terracycle. Nice bit of kit as the Brits say but they dont come cheap. 60 bucks plus shipping but it makes it so much easier to get it all neat and sturdy. I put the throttle on the left side along with the switch and display. While that display looks nice and bright inside, it is almost completely washed out in sunlight. I wish I had spent a few more bucks and got the smaller all in one display. (EK01?)I may still but will wait till I have it all together with a few miles on it.



This motor has a 44t chainring on it and the original was a 52t. Needless to say the chain was too long so I removed about 4 or 5 links which has it at a better tension throughout the range. I'm not sure how that will work out in max speed, but I'm not holding my breath with the 20" wheels. Since I got the motor it looks like there is a firmware update for better responsiveness in the first 2 pas levels but from what I read I need some sort of interface box along with the files. It also looks like a version of OSF is being written for this motor as well, so that may be a possibility. So what display I end up with may depend on what I do with the firmware on the motor. Initially I'll live with it.

I'd also like to swap out the chainring as well. Nothing is ever easy or cheap, and from searching online there is just one seller in Poland that has made an adapter to fit this motor and use 130 bcd rings along with an 11mm offset. If anyone knows of more options, I'm all ears.



The existing power wire from the battery mount is about 6 inches too short. I tried soldering some heavier stranded wire in but that wasnt working too well. So I ordered some heat shrink butt connectors which should be here tomorrow. With those I should get the battery mounted. I may be able to get it on the street for a ride, but it seemed to run well enough on the stand.

 

[Eviltwin68]

I finally got the battery mount finished and finalized the wiring of the main power cable. I took the bike out this morning for a test ride and while the handling and ride are good, overall speed, not so much. The original single chainring up front was a 52 and that is now a 44 which is standard with the motor. That results in an average cruising speed for my cadence of about 50 rpm of around 10-11 mph. Definitely faster than me doing all the work but I would hope for a few more MPH.



Battery mounted between the two rear wheels, bike can still stand on end.





The most straightforward way to increase the speed is to put a bigger chainring up front. Due to the non standard sizing that means spending a few bucks at ebikestuff.eu for their adapter. Nobodies chimed in but reading online they are the only game in town unless you want to order something to fit bafang and get out your round metal file. I could also fit some larger tires in the rear, say some big bens at 2.15 inches, but the existing tires are also schwalbe and have good tread left. I don't see this bike doing too much off road or gravel travel, so if I do that it may be down the road.

Comparing it to my GS Magnum, the steering is a wee bit twitchier but still has that go cart feel. I need to dial the brakes in with the new levers. The seat which was an upgrade of the standard mesh has padding and is very comfy. This bike is not as fast as the magnum which I can cruise at probably 12-13mph. The bike tracks well even on the downside on the crown of the road.

 

[Eviltwin68]

This is the gearing at present with the 44t front chainring.



This is what it would look like if I swap back to a 52t in the front. I should gain about 2mph



Upping the tire diameter would gain a wee bit more speed, but it would do more for ride comfort than anything else.

 

[Eviltwin68]

I ordered a spider adapter for a bafang to see if it might work on this motor. Unfortunately it doesnt for a couple of reasons. First, the center hole is a bit larger than the what is needed and if I was to redrill holes in the proper position, they would be right on the edge. Second, it was only a 104bcd and it would have put the chainring way farther out to the right and I didnt think it would be possible to jury rig an offset in.





There is a version for the BBSHD motor but I didnt bother with that since it did not have much area available for an alternate set of holes. So in the end, I ordered the ebikestuff part last night. Expensive for sure, about 80 bucks with conversion from Euros.

 

[Eviltwin68]

The part from ebikestuff came in today. It took about 2 weeks, sat in customs in NYC for a couple of days. Here is what 80 something bucks of Euro engineering looks like:



I had ordered a 52t chainring when I ordered the adapter and its been here for a week or so. It didnt come with any fasteners so I scrounged a set off an older crankset. Taking the old chainring off was easy enough but when I sat the new part on the hub it was contacting the socket head screws that were on that side of the motor. If you notice they give you two spacers so I tried one and then two and it still was hitting. So then a light went on about all those little screws in bag and I remember reading something about having to swap out so it would have clearance. You can see some of the original screws along with the new torx versions. (points down)



To mount the chainring I also had to scrounge for some longer M5 screws. Lucky for me I had some from all that extrusion stuff I bought for the trike stand. It's not stainless and I always use stainless on bikes so I'll have to order some but for now it works.



The chainline is not quite what it was before the motor, but on a bike like this it is not really a factor due to the length. But I did have to engineer something to hold the pex tube that protects your pants to a new position. I took an old piece of aluminum bar and put some screws on it to raise it up some and used a longer bolt to hold it out to be inline with feeding the chain.



You can see here how close the back nuts on the spyder come to the new low profile bolts on the motor.



It's been raining all day but as I finished up there was a break in the weather, so I rolled it out for a quick ride around the block. At my normal cadence (around 50 I suspect) I was doing about 11 with the motor on level 5 in top gear. With the new chainring its getting to about 14 so I'm happy with that.

I suspect I have one of the original software loads on this motor as it doesn't do much until you get to level 5. Even then it doesn't seem to push the bike as fast as the GS magnum which has the tsdz2 motor on it. I'll probably look to get the adapter to flash the controller and see how that works. I may go with OSF down the road depending on how well that works out.

 

[Eviltwin68]

After living with this bike and motor for a month, I need to do something about the software. I understand I need a Jlink emulator along with a cable to mate up to the motor. A quick google search doesnt seem to show much so I'll cut to the chase with the folks that should know best. Where is a good place to buy the emulator and all the related stuff to talk to the motor? Hopefully not from China or the EU with all the tariff stuff going on, but I wouldnt be surprised if that is the only venue. Thanks in advance.