Anybody use UB12180 SLA batteries on an electric bike?

[Little-Acorn]

These are 12V, 18Ah sealed lead-acid batteries. I've seen UB12180 batteries listed as being used in some electric-scooter or wheelchair applications.

I'm familiar with some of the drawbacks of SLA batteries. They're heavy for their power (compared to lithium), some kinds can be damaged by deep discharging many times, some will show a smaller-than-listed ampere-hour capacity when discharged at higher rates (15A, 20A, etc.).

Good news is, they're cheaper than lithiums, and easier to charge.

Some lead-acid batteries are described as "deep-cycle" batteries, which means they can be discharged to nearly dead, then recharged, many times without apparent damage. Yet I see charts that seem to say you can deep-cycle such-and-such non-deepcycle batteries for 200 cycles before they will no longer hold a charge, while doing the same thing to deep-cycle batteries makes them last maybe 250 cycles before they won't hold a charge. Doesn't seem much different.

Has anyone tried the UB12180 in an electric-bike application? Does its voltage start falling off after, say, 30 minutes of a 15-amp discharge? Does it tend to stop holding a charge after relatively few deep-discharge cycles?

Generally, what do you think of using the UB12180 in an electric-bike application?

Thanks all!

 

[torker]

Not sure about that model but any sla will work. Some better than others. I am just using 22 dollar each 7.5 ah generic from my local battery mart. I am sure they aren't for my application but they do ok. My controller is 22 amps max and I can get 10 mi. flat ground with some pedaling. Not great but really cheap. sla are ok for low amp draw, they don't like high amp draw at all. As long as you don't run them down too far or too fast/ eg. pull a lot of amps and you charge them up right away they will work. Now if those are gonna end up costing you 100 plus dollars then you might think about saving another 200 and look at some lithium. I just play around on my bike but if I was commuting and racking up the miles I would go for lithium for sure.

 

[dogman dan]

Really try to keep from discharging much more than 50% with sla's if possible. When they talk about discharging deep, and getting 200 cycles, they are discharging at rates far lower than you are using, even with a small controller. Run em flat all the time on an ebike... you can easily kill em in 50 cycles, or at least I did for sure. As stated above, sla's perform great with lower discharge rates, but few ebikes have a rate that low. Wheelchairs tend to not go long distances nonstop, so they can get away with a bit more. Drive to the living room, rest a bit, drive to the kitchen, rest, etc. A bike tends to just go and go and go which is a lot harder for the battery.

Anyway, a larger ah size like you propose would be much better for using sla's, and 10 mile range at full throttle should be possible without overdischarging them too much. Even stopping at 80% will help a lot compared to 100% discharge. If a 48v setup is done, it will of course weigh an awful lot.

 

[ZOMGVTEK]

Me and two friends have 4X 12v 18AH SLAs on our bikes... I have 800 miles on mine and theyre dropping off a cliff in capacity, but im discharging at 60A+ for periods of time... Normal discharge is about 10-15A, so still very very high for what normal rates are on a SLA of its size. Theyre heavy as hell, but were cheap and I dont have to worry about balancing them, I can discharge at essentially any rate without limits of a BMS, etc... But I probably only have 60-80 cycles on them and im getting 6-7AH out of them now, during the last 1-2AH the controller starts cutting out if ridden hard.

My friends bikes have 100-200 less miles, and only a 25A-30A current limit, but theyre getting almost the same power out of them, maybie 1AH more...

 

[rguy56]

I have 4 sla's on my regular commuter. They're still working well after 2 1/2 years, but I always run less than 20 amp, and have been careful to charge them at both ends of my commute.

Their weight is their biggest problem.

On the other hand, I imagine the shock of any would-be bike thief if they tried to take my bike.

 

[dumbass]

These are 12V, 18Ah sealed lead-acid batteries. I've seen UB12180 batteries listed as being used in some electric-scooter or wheelchair applications.

I'm familiar with some of the drawbacks of SLA batteries. They're heavy for their power (compared to lithium), some kinds can be damaged by deep discharging many times, some will show a smaller-than-listed ampere-hour capacity when discharged at higher rates (15A, 20A, etc.).

Good news is, they're cheaper than lithiums, and easier to charge.

Some lead-acid batteries are described as "deep-cycle" batteries, which means they can be discharged to nearly dead, then recharged, many times without apparent damage. Yet I see charts that seem to say you can deep-cycle such-and-such non-deepcycle batteries for 200 cycles before they will no longer hold a charge, while doing the same thing to deep-cycle batteries makes them last maybe 250 cycles before they won't hold a charge. Doesn't seem much different.

Has anyone tried the UB12180 in an electric-bike application? Does its voltage start falling off after, say, 30 minutes of a 15-amp discharge? Does it tend to stop holding a charge after relatively few deep-discharge cycles?

Generally, what do you think of using the UB12180 in an electric-bike application?

Thanks all!

I have you exact batteries in a 24v 18ah pack. I have had them since last year and they now have about 60 cycles and as time goes on my meter tells me I am getting less and less from them capasity wise. As a norm I only ran them about 7 to 8ahs per ride (about 15 miles on a 360w Cyclone motor) and always recharged them instantly. But I think they would last another 100 to 200 cycles. However, I bought a lipo4 pack this year and all I can say is screw those SLA packs!! The SLA packs of which I actually have 3 are 26lbs each and I was riding with 2 of them at a time (52lbs). The single lipo4 packs goes further and faster and weighs only 13lbs. Da......what was I thinking?

You don't state how many batteries you require, your power requirements or how far you want to travel on a charge. Or for that matter if you can charge them as soon as you need to everytime. But for me I spent $45 per battery plus $10 shipping. That's $100 per pack and to go where I wanted to go and protect the packs I rode with 2 packs or $200 and 53lbs of batteries. The lipo4 pack I bought now cost only $128x2=$256 +$20 shipping and weighs only 13lbs. Bottom line the lipo4 pack cost me $76 more and will out proform the SLAs combind and will last 10 times longer (so they say and time will tell). But the difference in weight alone is worth the extra $76 to me.

Added note I bought 2 new Ezip bikes and mounted the lipo4 on them too. The EZip bikes come standard with 24v 10ah SLA packs. And you can really fell the difference when I am running with my lipo4 24v 20ah pack. Remember an SLA battery starts out fully charged at 12.8v. But a lipo4 starts out at around 14.8v. And the sag is small compared to the SLA battery.

Your call but in my opinion I wasted a lot of money on SLA packs. Hell I'll sell you my used SLA packs.....LOL

 

[kentlim26]

i sold to friend for 4 Sla batteries(quite new condition)... SG 20 , i don't mind let go at SG20.00 ... the reason is all these SLA batteries really make me sick. i just want to let my place look abit neater.

cheers
kentlim

 

[vprwill]

I have four of these on my rig. It's a fairly new setup and I don't have too many cycles under my belt yet, but my early impressions are this is a very marginal setup and it doesn't meet my particular needs very well. First off, the weight. I knew going in that this would be a heavy setup, but I'm just amazed how heavy this bike really is with four of these (mine weight about 12.5 lbs each) along with the heavy X5 motor and steel frame. I have to lift the bike over a set of train tracks on my commute and I really have to struggle to pick it up. As for range, My commute to work is about 18 miles one way and I have to keep the speed to about 15-20 mph to make it there without the batteries going completely flat. Riding conservatively, I still manage to get close to 100% DOD on the trip to the office. After a recharge, going home is a bit easier as there are fewer hills. Initially, I got about 13AH out of these batteries. After less than 20 cycles, I now get about 10AH out of them according to the WattsUp meter. There's no question I'm stressing these batteries with the X5 and a 40A controller. With colder weather on the way, the range will decrease further. Pretty sure I'm walking in Dogman's footsteps and on track to kill them in 50 cycles. Maybe if I had a shorter commute or had a lower amp controller they would work better, but they're basically a waste of money for my needs. I'm already looking for a replacement. Currently leaning towards headways.

 

[Lock]

Good news is, they're cheaper than lithiums, and easier to charge.

If you have to replace three sets of tired SLA batts for every one tired Lithium pack, do the SLAs still look cheaper? Add the fact that over this time with the SLAs yer living w/batts that are getting tired towards their useful life... Dunno if you experience cold weather?
tks
Lock

 

[vanilla ice]

Does its voltage start falling off after, say, 30 minutes of a 15-amp discharge?

Yes, an 18ah sla would probably be pretty much done after half an hour of constant 15 amp output. You would have maybe 2 or 3 ah left. Torker said it best, for the occasional recreational rider, sla works. For commuting you should be looking at something else.

 

[morph999]

on a motor that doesn't pull many amps, the peurkert effect (SLA drainage effect) isn't very noticeable. It's very noticeable on an X5 though. IT's the difference between being able to go 40 mph or 20 mph. I can go 40 mph at the beginning of my run but after about 30 min, I can only go 20 mph with SLA batteries.

I'm in the same boat. $400 is a lot of money to me. We'll just have to bite the bullet and buy lithium.

 

[Russell]

on a motor that doesn't pull many amps, the peurkert effect (SLA drainage effect) isn't very noticeable. It's very noticeable on an X5 though.

Please stop saying that...it's always noticeable with any ebike. With a little Bafang on a 36V/9Ah SLA pack the best I ever got was 60% of rated capacity or 5.4Ah.

-R

 

[mikefish]

Hey Dumbass! (too much fun to type that)

where did you get your lipo4 batteries at? sounds like good prices...have a link?

also, have any more info on putting them on your Ezip? (pics, tips, ect)

 

[morph999]

Hey Dumbass! (too much fun to type that)

where did you get your lipo4 batteries at? sounds like good prices...have a link?

also, have any more info on putting them on your Ezip? (pics, tips, ect)

Maybe he got them here.

12v 20ah for $128 .
http://elitepowersolutions.com/products/product_info.php?cPath=16&products_id=74

You can get a 48v 20ah for $619 with charger included. $520 without charger. That's cheaper than Ping.

 

[velowatt]

BMS with those?

 

[dumbass]

Hey Dumbass! (too much fun to type that)

where did you get your lipo4 batteries at? sounds like good prices...have a link?

also, have any more info on putting them on your Ezip? (pics, tips, ect)

Maybe he got them here.

12v 20ah for $128 .
http://elitepowersolutions.com/products/product_info.php?cPath=16&products_id=74

You can get a 48v 20ah for $619 with charger included. $520 without charger. That's cheaper than Ping.

OPPs....sorry I forgot to say where I got them.. Here's the link http://elitepowersolutions.com/products/product_info.php?cPath=16&products_id=74 These cells are very well matched and if you open up the box you will find the individual cells are written on. I'm guessing they actually check each cell and match them up so their charge and discharge is very closely. Of course no one knows how long that will last...do we?

Please note that these cells do not have BMS when you buy them. I am not using a BMS at this time and have been discharging and charging them without a BMS all summer and they are still matched. I am also using the 24v charger that came with the Ezip for the SLa pack. I let the charger run until the green lite comes on then I start checking each cell's voltage. I cut off the charger when any one of the cells hits 3.65-3.7v. I have never had a difference more then .1v on charging and .01v on discharging. However, I am very nice to my packs and don't run them below about 22v (2.75v per cell).

My finished lipo 24v 20ah pack is a little larger then Ezips SLA pack but it fits into the original battery rack just like the SLA pack did. And the weight is exactly the same as the SLA with a whole lot more power. Here's some pics. Please note the side view of the pack it shows small holes that are used for my meter probes to check voltage. While you can't see them the pack also has a ventilation path machined into one side (the top side of the cells that have the connectors). By the way...no cracks about my fatass seat on my bike. I'm not fat but I do like comfort...LOL If you need more onfo just ask....PS...the second pic macks the pack look bad because the screws were still removed so it looks like it's not well fitted but trust me it's tight when all screwed together.

 

[vanilla ice]

Those look like 20ah thundersky cells.. I thought 40 were the smallest? Pricing isn't too bad.

 

[dumbass]

Those look like 20ah thundersky cells.. I thought 40 were the smallest? Pricing isn't too bad.

I have to agree with you. The best I can see the only cells this supplier cells are Thunder Sky. But these aren't specified who the manufacture is but if you look at the spsc on these and the other cells they sell (Thunder Sky) with the exception for the AHs they are the same. I have seen other 12v packs at other suppliers that said they were Thunder Sky 20ah. But they looked different they these do. They were larger looking. Bottom line I think these are Thunder Sky cells. And they are a great price right now too. But when /i bought my first set I paid $160 each not the sale price of $128. They were out of stock for a while and shortly after they got them in stock they went on sale. I am thinking they don't want to carry them through the winter. I am guessing they have had these in stock for about 6 week only so they should be still well charged.