Arduino Wheelie Controll

[DasDouble]

Im planing a wheelie controll for my Vector bike right now. What I will need is quite simple:

-An Arduino
-Gyroskop
-Dc-Dc converter for high voltage down to low voltage (81-12v)

The arduino will measure with the help of the gyroskop what angle my bike is on. In case the front tire is on the ground, it is 0°. When it is on it´s maximum, it should be somewhere at 40°. To make the programming more simple, I would say the gyro would have to be balanced to real 0°. An other option would be that with every start of the bike, the angle will be reset. This way I can place the gyro, just I would like to.

So after all it will look like that:

Option 1.)

-Starting the bike
-Giving full throttle
-Front wheel pops up
-Front wheel goes over 40°
-Arduino cuts off 5v power supply from throttle
-Controller gives 0 power
-Front wheel goes down again under 40°because 0 power.
...

Option 2.)

-Starting the bike
-Giving full throttle
-Front wheel pops up
-Front wheel goes over 40°
-Arduino gives a 10th of a second a regen brake signal
-if front wheel (gyro) > 40° then brake signal 1 (on) again.
-if front wheel (gyro) < 40° then brake signal 0 (off).


The only thing which worrys me is that the Adaptto Max-E could get damaged from the instant 5v on and off in case of the throttle and / or the regen signal.

Anny suggestions?
-Cheers

 

[DasDouble]

.reserved.

 

[Ianhill]

I like a wheelie or two, I find it's all about fethering the back brake while pedaling cutting the power on and off alone won't cut it you need a way of modulating the rear brake too, then you could ride around with the front wheel up for miles up hill down hill whatever.

As a kid my mate was the pro at it he could wheelie any distant around corners what ever it's all about that back brake.

 

[DasDouble]

I like a wheelie or two, I find it's all about fethering the back brake while pedaling cutting the power on and off alone won't cut it you need a way of modulating the rear brake too, then you could ride around with the front wheel up for miles up hill down hill whatever.

As a kid my mate was the pro at it he could wheelie any distant around corners what ever it's all about that back brake.

yes, I can do it with pedaling too, even on a bosch pedelec. But its too hard for me with a throttle. This is what the wheelie controll is for. It´s like the last thing which saves you from falling over and eventually damaging your bike.

 

[Ianhill]

Ah rite I get you sorry I thought you wanted to pop about on the back wheel like a pro on an ebike, I get you a fail safe damn good idea.

It could be used for launch control too, really it's a double edge beast it stops wrecking high speed wheelies and helps you launch hard as you like the gyro will keep the front wheel no more than a selected percentage off the floor just keep it straight and hold it flat.

Sensing and adjusting torque on the fly with gyro on top be the ultimate goal to a bike that ride damn hard on the pavement and keep you decently safe but that would need direct access and modification to controller output signal some sort of cadence sensor and wheel magnet rpm sensor giving feedback at the wheel for speed, torque applied and slippage.

 

[DasDouble]

Yeah, this is what Im talking about. Keeping you away from getting butt hurt but still having fun :lol:

But what do you need the direct access to the rpm for? I mean as long as you have access to the throttle -> access to the power output, you are ready for programming.. aren´t you?

 

[Ianhill]

Yeah, this is what Im talking about. Keeping you away from getting butt hurt but still having fun :lol:

But what do you need the direct access to the rpm for? I mean as long as you have access to the throttle -> access to the power output, you are ready for programming.. aren´t you?

If we measure wheel rpm and torque at the wheel, it could detect slip on the road, when the torque drops fast and rpm rises then it will be spinning the tyre up.

If we could then access the amps/ torque output to the motor we could keep the motor rotating while lowering the front wheel with gyro input or stop wheel spin while still having forward momentum.

All that is is a difficult task mind well beyond myself I would love to ride it though be kick ass having traction control and anti reck.

 

[DasDouble]

If we measure wheel rpm and torque at the wheel, it could detect slip on the road, when the torque drops fast and rpm rises then it will be spinning the tyre up.

If we could then access the amps/ torque output to the motor we could keep the motor rotating while lowering the front wheel with gyro input or stop wheel spin while still having forward momentum.

All that is is a difficult task mind well beyond myself I would love to ride it though be kick ass having traction control and anti reck.

Ouh ok now I see. That´s a nice idea, but that already exists. The Adaptto controller, which I am using, detects if the rpm rises too fast. If this happens, it stops giving amps for a short periode until the rpm comes to a normal stand, compared to the power output. With this, it is possible to accellerate on ice and other slippery stuff, without getting recket. Search on youtube for "Adaptto on ice". A really awesome feature. Especially usefull if you have an max. output of 14kW like my controller (a Max-E) has.

 

[Ianhill]

In that case the gyro cutting the throttle signal should be ok.
Anytime the bike is going to flip it will have full traction anyway so in shouldn't be interfering with the TC system.

The controller looks sweet adjustable regen I'm envious.
I can not see a price mind what's it cost ?

 

[DasDouble]

You can buy one from Allex or from Artur from Vector, where I have also got mine from. There are 3 different models. The Mini, the Midi and the Max-E (which I own).
Mini: 4kW = 649 USD
Midi: 8kW = 749 USD
Max: 14kW =849 USD

http://www.vectorebike.com/orders/componencts.html

When you should purchase one from Vector, you could mention that you come because of me, Elias. This way I maybe get some percentages

 

[Ianhill]

Its beyond my cash point, I was pushed to spend £100 on my new bluetooth sinewave.

If that stator in your profile pic is anything to go by I'd say you will be putting a tick by take off with ebike soon enough. Cracking build hope u get some joy with the arduino.

How would it work ? Take the hall signal feed it to arduino then generate a new signal on the digital out with the 1000 odd steps available from 0-5v then when gyro feedback rises it progressively cuts the throttle backdepending on programing, I think this way may give throttle lag and maybe a few throttle gremlins.

A pull to low could also be done on the hall signal it would be simple and easiest choice with less hastle and near same outcome just when your gonna flip it will fully cut and drop depending on regen it could rapidly decelate too so hold on tight.

Rather than the complex way listed first that will need programming tweeking to get it spot on but once right will still feed a bit of power to drop the front back down and not go straight into hard regen and have a other problem to deal with.

You could use the giro and the pull low idea but instead just feed 1v etc at the controller for a small timed sequence then cuts to low or throttle input state so it doesn't drop back down violently into regen, The brakes if connected to the controller would still cut the throttle dead when applied if a wheelie needs to be brought to a stop.

 

[flat tire]

There is one HUGE problem with this approach: you don't need an arduino or abstract brainpower to do any of this, just put your rear brake opposite the throttle and voila.

Fortunately a small tweak makes it worthwhile!! Here's what you can do: change the algorithm so that it smoothly MANAGES POWER with the goal of maintaining a given wheelie angle instead of rudely cutting the throttle. For instance, you could set it to allow a 20* power wheelie, a 50* standup balance wheelie or even a 12'o'clock!! This will require an understanding of the wheelie characteristics of the bike / active tuning to setup and the way you would do it is called feedback control...look up "PID controller". Anyway, that would be a really awesome version of wheelie control and would actually be useful. The original embodiment is only useful for the absolute most ham-fisted riders with no ability to manage their brakes.

 

[macribs]

Cool idea das double. Make this and i buy it, and so will a lot of others here do. Especially for us that are not in our 20's anymore the healing part after a crash takes longer and longer, net result we become boringly cautious and don't ride like we used to do. Also the ability to go flat WOT whenever at a redlight without the need to modulate brake or throttle will be very nice.

1+ flat tire.

There have been some wheelie control talk here over the years, but non that actually started to thinker with it afaik.
The pid idea is nice, I've been using pid to control my home brew setup as well as a temp control for a diy heat chamber for curing paint.
Nice about pid's are that they are so responsive and the can stay within tiny margins without risk for overshoot. Like the 12'o clock wheelie where you are at the very balance point, there is no room for overshoot. Any acceleration will flip you on your back. Pid control would easily manage to cut down accordingly.

 

[flat tire]

One of the best configurations would be the front tire just skimming across the ground, giving for maximum acceleration. That would be super cool, just grab the throttle and rip without worry or care of shooting the bike out from underneath you.

 

[macribs]

You are absolutely right FT. And for a flat out WOT race off the red light lifting the front wheel just a tiny amount would be one of many perfect jobs for a pid based wheelie control.