Australian Ebike Law

[BiGH]

This is a continuation of the discussion from my build thread about the legal limit in Australia...

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1481&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=195

 

[Freddyflatfoot]

BigH ,
where did you hear about the move to a 30 kph speed limit? I'm sure that would be power only, or maybe even a speed related power cut-off like they have in the UK?
even with my geared system at 250 watts, I would struggle to get over 30 kph. But can get over 40 kph in the right conditions with some help from me.
Reckon that might be even better with the lighter LiPo pack.
I have also heard through Bicycle Victoria, that there is a move to increase our power limit to 300 watts, so maybe the increase in power, and cap on speed are related.
Rob

 

[Ben]

I'm not sure why they have still kept the power constraint so low. It can't be a speed thing, because you can get up to 40km/h with a bit of effort on a regular MTB and road bikes are in a higher league all together. It shouldn't be a power thing either, as a person can develop 200W when riding. It's a bit of a shame really that they cripple a bike with a 200W law, when this tech is the way of the future.

 

[BiGH]

BigH ,
where did you hear about the move to a 30 kph speed limit? I'm sure that would be power only, or maybe even a speed related power cut-off like they have in the UK?
even with my geared system at 250 watts, I would struggle to get over 30 kph. But can get over 40 kph in the right conditions with some help from me.
Reckon that might be even better with the lighter LiPo pack.
I have also heard through Bicycle Victoria, that there is a move to increase our power limit to 300 watts, so maybe the increase in power, and cap on speed are related.
Rob

Hi Rob,
I heard that from my local bike shop guy. I've also heard it from a few other sources - leading me to believe they are pushing for the limit - I think Allan (elation bikes) might have mentioned it too.

I can do 60kph on the flat on the roadbike in an all out sprint, i think its designed to stop ebikers being dangerous on the bike paths or something.

I would like ot see a power increase with speed limiter - i think it would be great if you could have systems that limited your bike to 30kph - but be able to achieve 30kph at ALL times- ie up hills too.

They really need to change the laws here- many more would most likely take the bike to work on sunny days.

Maybe we need these illegal bikes to exist for a while until cridical mass - kinda like how napster started the revolution of online distrubition of songs, even though it was illegal.

 

[Ben]

So I presume you don't know whether the 30km/h is replacing the power limit or not?

If that were true, you could have it accelerate insanely up to speed...cool. 30km/h is a pretty cruisey speed, I could probably live with it.

 

[Mark_A_W]

30kph is far too slow for commuting - I sit on 30-34 now, with a legal ebike (+ pedalling) on the flat. Actually, I can push a regular bike at 30 on the flat, but then I need a shower when I get to work.

For an Ebike to really become a via replacement for a car/motorbike, they need to cruise at 35-40kph. At this speed I would beat my car to work during/near peak hour.

30 is just frustrating - on the flat you'll get overtaken by the lycra brigade (but wait for the hills!).

There needs to be two classes;

1. 300w, max speed 30. Unregistered = a "bicycle". Purpose is mobility assistance for aged/infirm/lazy.

2. 750w, max speed 40 (or more!). Registered (nominal, like a low powered moped maybe?). Purpose is replacement of fossil fuel burning, carbon spewing cars/motorbikes for commuting.

I'd happy ride over to Vic Roads for an inspection and to pay nominal registration if it meant I could legally increase the power to a really useful level.

 

[lazarus2405]

I don't know how things work in that part of the world, but in the States our law enforcement generally are not current on their high school physics. If you act like a normal bike, they'll pay no mind.

Part of your problem seems to stem from the fact that politicians are generally not technical folks. When legislating technical issues, they often need to be presented through analogies, which inevitably oversimplify (Google "series of tubes" for a better-publicized example). In this case, it seems that the relevant legislative body was taught that watts are analogous to horsepower, and horsepower in gas bikes was thought to directly translate to speed. Thus, the watt went from being a unit of power to one of speed.

So how many watts does a human need to produce to climb a steep hill?

 

[TylerDurden]

So how many watts does a human need to produce to climb a steep hill?

http://www.kreuzotter.de/english/espeed.htm

Pick a bike and add parameters... you can find speed or watts.

 

[Freddyflatfoot]

I dunno, 30 kph is pretty reasonable, very close to the US 20 mph max speed, and much better than the UK's 15 mph max speed.
Most of us are riding modded MTB's, so to me, riding at or close to 30 kph, with only moderate pedal assist, is reasonably satisfying.
If you need a reality check, then its just amatter of riding a normal MTB, and see what speeds you get! Makes really appreciate even modest levels of power assist. i.e. when I'm riding against a strong headwind, I would struggle to get to 15 kph, and that would be with a lot of effort, add power and I can easily see 22 kph, or more. Makes a huge difference in the commute to work.
even on my road bike, Idon't think I'd do any better against a headwind.
I like what I can get out of 250 watts!
However, I would fully support an electric moped class of vehicle, but I don't think the legislators woyld support that this clas of vehicle would be bicycle based, more purpose built, upgraded brakes, indicators, speedo, mirrors, mudguards, safety cut outs etc. etc.
Rob

 

[Mark_A_W]

30kph isn't that fast on a mountain bike. It feels like you're crawling to me.

I only recently beat my best time unassisted home from work, using my ebike. Average speed 29kph (it's downhill on the way home). My "legal" ebike is only faster than my normal, steel framed mountain bike uphill or into the wind.

It's taken me 5 months to get the right combination of wind and traffic .

It seems ludicrous that a simple technology that drastically lowers my carbon emissions, and usage of finite oil reserves, needs to be illegal to make it practical.

Well, maybe not....we do have a government/system that rewards increased fuel usage via the FBT laws for packaged vehicles....GRR. There's so many things wrong with our government's attitudes I don't know where to start ..GRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!

 

[lazarus2405]

So how many watts does a human need to produce to climb a steep hill?

http://www.kreuzotter.de/english/espeed.htm

Pick a bike and add parameters... you can find speed or watts.

Thanks again for the link, but the question was rhetorical. :-x

And of course, remember that when biking wit muscle motors, the primary emission is carbon dioxide. If the lycras knew this, they could ride ebikes too and stop contributing to global climate change.

(Nevermind where the majority of the electricity we use to charge our batteries comes from. It isn't our fault that vastly more capital has been invested in combustion-based generation technologies.)

 

[Mark_A_W]

Not my electricity 100% solar purchased through the power company, and I'm hoping to save up enough to install my own PV panels one day...soonish...

At the least electric vehicles separate generation of energy from transport - you can get the electricity in a clean and renewable way, you can't with petrol (even biodiesel seems crazy and dangerous to me - fuel competing with food..).

 

[ngocthach1130]

In the US, laws on EV are very outdated even nonexistent. I live in New Jersey in US and there are no laws governing electric vehicle. Law on gas scooter is max 50cc and max 25mph, but that's about it. 30kph/18.6mph is pretty slow for standard here. people drive 40mph/64kmph on average here. On bigger roads we have people driving 50mph in 25mph zone. In northeastern area of the united state, biking isn't a common form since winter kept biking pretty unpopular. So no biking lane here. I ride scooter on the sidewalk, but pothole and uneven road makes it uncomfortable. Riding on the street i would want to keep up with traffic. Parts for my ebike will arrive soon and i'm hoping to hit 35mph/56kmph or so. I agree there should be some law governing this issues since riding on street leave you liable for accidents, i'd like to register something and some insurance for it. Don't want to pay full cost for motorcycle insurance either.

 

[vanilla ice]

we do have a government/system that rewards increased fuel usage via the FBT laws for packaged vehicles

We get a special business tax write off for vehicles over 6000 pounds gross, so small business owners who want a light car for deliveries or whatever use get screwed. But buy a heavy SUV, and you're set!