Between Car and Bike, a New Electric Trike

jmygann

100 kW
Joined
May 30, 2008
Messages
1,069
this is what many of us have been waiting for ... although I am still working on the 2 pass side by side

Elf


Purpose: Personal Commuting & recreation
1 Person + (passenger jump seat)
Can carry 5-8 bags of groceries and up to 200lbs payload
Range: 30 Miles with each 8lb 48V Battery Pack
Speed: 25MPH
Full Lighting: Headlights, Brake lights, Blinkers, Warning Flashers
Poly-Carbonate/ Composite Body
Length- 7’
Width – 42”
Height – 62”
Weight – 93 Lbs.
Price: $3,700 US Plus Shipping/Handling and applicable Taxes

http://www.newsobserver.com/2011/12/05/1690139/interest-builds-in-solar-electric.html

http://www.organictransit.com/models.php

http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2011/10/profile-between-car-and-bike-a-new-electric-trike/247341/

270144_157997104268847_141856995882858_308895_8258389_n.jpg
 
so lets build a better /more realistic one. I' ve got some $ to invest.

aptera went under .....http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2011/12/aptera-motors-closes-its-doors-three-wheel-ev-wont-become-reality.html

I got an e-mail from Aptera ... "Three-Wheeled EV excitement is alive at Epic EV

While the page has turned on the Aptera 3-wheeled EV, the promise of exciting 3-wheel vehicles is alive and well at EPIC EV, the California based manufacturer of electric and hybrid-electric recreational vehicles. Specifically, the company, headed by Aptera co-founder Chris Anthony, has announced its Torq, 3-wheeled performance electric vehicle, that will be manufactured at its plant in Louisiana.

http://www.worldcarfans.com/110083128172/epic-ev-torq-200hp-three-wheeler-electric-vehicle

http://www.evepic.com/

My interest is still in the pedal/electric
 
Maybe a pedal / electric similar to this .....

KAN%20-%20250cc%20Super%20Boomerang-2.jpg


250cc-SuperBoomerang-B.jpg
 
or this ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjnFPauxStw&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=NjnFPauxStw

[youtube]player_detailpage&v=NjnFPauxStw[/youtube]
 
Is it a NEV or a motorcycle, or a moped? 97 pounds is a bit hard to believe. 150 more believable. The shell must be pretty thin.

As for range, well, you know the drill, set throttle for 100w or less if possible. Then ride around on perfectly flat circuit in 0 mph wind at 5 mph. Likely does use only 500w to go 25 mph, and would have about 10 mile range on a battery. So a big improvement on a heavy golf cart.
 
dogman said:
Is it a NEV or a motorcycle, or a moped? 97 pounds is a bit hard to believe. 150 more believable. The shell must be pretty thin.

As for range, well, you know the drill, set throttle for 100w or less if possible. Then ride around on perfectly flat circuit in 0 mph wind at 5 mph. Likely does use only 500w to go 25 mph, and would have about 10 mile range on a battery. So a big improvement on a heavy golf cart.

Agreed. I can't make out if this is pedal/electric or not, but they seem to have lots of experience with HPVs and Electrathons on their their team. I'd never get my mother into that jumpseat, though. :?

My ideal would more like a wheeled version of a kicksled that would fold down to go anywhere a wheelchair or a shopping cart might.

Racers.jpg
 
I worked with a group of students modifying and assembling a BugE. From my experience, this vehicle will weight much more than 98 lbs, will have trouble being registered in many states, will never make it 30 miles, and will cost considerably more than $3,700.

In TN, I think any motorized vehicle with 3 wheels is a motorcycle and will have to be able to keep up with highway speeds. I think. Someone else might comment here. It definitely can't be registered in TN as a low- or medium-speed vehicle because they must have 4 wheels. I don't think it can be a scooter, but not sure there. Actually, I am not sure of the legal status of any 3 wheel trike with a motor on it. As long as it looks like you are pedaling, you are not likely to have any issues, from a practical point of view, but I am not sure it is a street legal vehicle in TN. The BugE, which is a very similar vehicle, is a motorcycle.

The BugE, assembled, will cost around $8,000 by the time it is on the road if you do the work yourself. You can buy one fully assembled for around $10,000. The BugE weights about 350 lbs with the batteries, I think. It is not built of lightweight materials, particularly, so I am sure this can be reduced, but I don't think it can be reduced by that much. In particular, the weight of batteries to go 30 miles will be significant. The weight of the body will also be non-trivial, in particular the seats. Anyway, I think most people here realize this is not a real vehicle.

Finally, at least in the US, the market for this vehicle will be very small, even if it was exactly that the "designer" specified. In reality, the price of gas is still too low for most people to consider a significant change in the way they commute, run errands, etc. It has fallen below $3.00 here. For that price, it would take at least two years to make up the cost of the vehicle. And where are you going to keep it? Without full coverage, keeping it outside will increase depreciation considerably.

After working on the student project, I keep coming back to an ebike as the ultimate in efficient single person commuting for anything less than 10 miles, one way. Even longer if you are a little more hard-core, but certainly 10 miles is pretty do-able by nearly anyone. It has its downsides but it is hard to argue that an inexpensive, high mpg car backing up an ebike isn't near optimal for the average commute. That is my opinion anyway. There are definitely days when I wish I had a windscreen and roof but everything is a compromise and you can't discount that the law doesn't allow just anything on the roads. An ebike is sailing along through a bit of a loophole it seems to me. If they get more popular, I am afraid someone is going to figure out there is money to be made and there will be regulation and licenses and fees of every sort. Right now, you can add an ebike to your commuting picture for virtually no recurring cost so the payback period is relatively short.

I think truly inexpensive weatherproof personal transportation will continue to be frustratingly distant. When you put something on the road that looks like a car, you have to meet certain legal requirements that are going to drive the price up and make the vehicle heavier than it could be. Building a dicey experimental vehicle in your garage is one thing. Mass producing them and selling them is another. You have to be able to defend yourself against the inevitable law suit and that is going to cost serious money.
 
It's a "bicycle" as they state. 750-1000 watts and 2-3 wheels keeps it a bicycle.
 
jmygann said:
It's a "bicycle" as they state. 750-1000 watts and 2-3 wheels keeps it a bicycle.

In Tennessee there is no such thing as an electric bicycle, from a legal standpoint, because "motorized bikes" are differentiated from "motorcycles" by having a displacement under 50cc and less than 2 bhp.

It is similar to a Twike, which was originally the same thing, but was made in Europe. I think they eventually made an all-electric version, but not sure. I don't know, but I anticipate problems with putting one of these on the road in the US. I think if it had enough power to be practical, it would be illegal. Heck, over half the builds on here are illegal, from a strict standpoint. I think the only thing that keeps most ebikes people here build on the streets is a low profile; that is, they look like a bike. Anyway, it will be interested to see if they ever get made. I can't tell if the Twike is still made. It has a webpage, but very little info, if I am looking in the right place.
 
Yeah, not such thing as a national definition, so it does vary state to state. I see my edit didn't appear, Looking at the websites for awhile, it does have pedals. So lots of places it would be either a bike, or a bike with a helper motor, or a moped, depending on that states particular wording of the law. Most states will allow a three wheeler to be a "bike" but not 4 wheels.

In new mexico, it would be a moped, like all my ebikes that can't go faster than 30 mph are. The problem with actually using one, would be the usual stuff. On the bike trails, you'd get folks saying it wasn't a bike, on the street you'd not be able to let cars pass as easily. No worse than a regular tadpole trike of course, but you know what I mean, the looks would confuse people about is it a bike, and on the street they'd just wish you'd f off and get outta the way.
 
what a load of crap this is. they dont even need any money for preordering the thing. 3400USD? doubt it very much. when you take in to account all the bits and peaces, you cant make a decent bike for that much. 30 miles range, he ment going 5m on electrics and the rest 25- human power, flinsones style
 
John in CR said:
30 miles- Bullshit
93 lbs- Bullshit

Status- Vaporware

Good idea- Definitely

tadpole trike weighs approx 40lbs add 53 lbs of body, motor, batteries ??

travel 30 miles ??

Is this not possible ?

Motor - 10 lbs ?

batteries ?

plastic body ??
 
patrickza said:
Looks very similar to this: http://www.cngreenauto.cn/product/306767069-209282644/Electric_Tricycle_With_Hub_Motor.html

I want one...

Me too .... install pedals when I get it. ... tell the officials it is only a 1000 watt motor and therefore a bicycle here in California... just don't get caught going over 20-25 mph.

Tricycle with lithium battery
http://greenauto.en.alibaba.com/product/209702785-209282644/Tricycle_with_lithium_battery.html

picture.html
 
jmygann said:
patrickza said:
Looks very similar to this: http://www.cngreenauto.cn/product/306767069-209282644/Electric_Tricycle_With_Hub_Motor.html

I want one...

Me too .... install pedals when I get it. ... tell the officials it is only a 1000 watt motor and therefore a bicycle here in California... just don't get caught going over 20-25 mph.

Tricycle with lithium battery
http://greenauto.en.alibaba.com/product/209702785-209282644/Tricycle_with_lithium_battery.html

picture.html

Wonder if we can register it here in the states. :) 120kmph is not bad. But i am concern about reliability and cost to ship it here.
 
This appears to be 2 seater ... side by side

with 144V -3.2V/160AH LIFEPO4 ... AC motor .... front wheel drive

http://greenauto.en.alibaba.com/product/209702123-209282644/HIGH_SPEED_ELECTRIC_CAR.html?tracelog=cgsotherproduct1

would love to see more running gear pictures
 
I prefer the tandem seating. Also the fact that it uses lead means I can put in lithium I like and at a much higher voltage. It should be lighter and more aerodynamic too.
 
mvly said:
Wonder if we can register it here in the states. :) 120kmph is not bad. But i am concern about reliability and cost to ship it here.

I think it could be registered as a motorcycle. Might need some minor modifications if lights, etc. are not DOT certified, but very do-able I think. From my experience, the DOT's position on motorcycles is kind of anything goes as long as it has a VIN number and legal lights. Cost to ship would be pricey, of course.

I hope this type of vehicle takes off, but I am not hopeful. There is a lot of resistance to putting something "new" on the road. Ebikes get a pass in many places because they look like bikes. Drivers already know how to hate bikes and the riders. With something three-wheeled stinking up the urban jungle, they are not sure if they should laugh, pity the driver, curse the driver, run him down, or all four in order.
 
The side by side models say .... Certification DOT

http://greenauto.en.alibaba.com/product/209702123-209282644/HIGH_SPEED_ELECTRIC_CAR.html?tracelog=cgsotherproduct1

the blue tandem does not and may be an ATV

If it is certified DOT does that make it easier to register ?

Put pedals on the blue one for a bicycle
 
[/quote] I can't tell if the Twike is still made. It has a webpage, but very little info, if I am looking in the right place.[/quote]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkdgebLTYLg&feature=related

[youtube]fkdgebLTYLg&feature=related[/youtube]
 
jmygann said:
If it is certified DOT does that make it easier to register ?

It will depend, I think, on where you live, if in the US. Don't know about other countries. In Tennessee, if you have a title, you can get it registered without anyone even seeing it. You can probably even get a title for a vehicle with a VIN number with no one bothering to look if you happen to know the person at the DMV window. However, you might be asked to sign a statement saying your vehicle has certain features, even if they don't look at it. After that, unless you get pulled over, you are good to go. Other states do annual inspections on motorcycles and cars and I suspect that you would fail the inspection if the lights were not DOT certified. If you build a motorcycle from scratch in TN, they will send a highway patrolman to inspect it. This process can be very thorough and will require DOT lights.

In general, TN has extremely lax enforcement of motor vehicle laws. And it can be a good thing. On the other hand, you have to just shake your head at some of the moving garbage heaps you see on the interstate. I can't even count the number of times I've been nearly asphyxiated from the unburned hydrocarbons coming out of the exhaust of many a vehicle. And the plumes of oil. I'm not talking a faint blue tint, I'm talking about enough smoke to blind drivers for 300 yds. You really need to keep your hand close to the "recirculate air" knob or face certain death at times. There is a reason our IQs rank near the bottom... Thank God for Mississippi ( :wink: ).

So anyway, it depends on where you live.
 
pdf said:
I worked with a group of students modifying and assembling a BugE. From my experience, this vehicle will weight much more than 98 lbs, will have trouble being registered in many states, will never make it 30 miles, and will cost considerably more than $3,700.

In TN, I think any motorized vehicle with 3 wheels is a motorcycle and will have to be able to keep up with highway speeds. I think. Someone else might comment here. It definitely can't be registered in TN as a low- or medium-speed vehicle because they must have 4 wheels. I don't think it can be a scooter, but not sure there. Actually, I am not sure of the legal status of any 3 wheel trike with a motor on it. As long as it looks like you are pedaling, you are not likely to have any issues, from a practical point of view, but I am not sure it is a street legal vehicle in TN. The BugE, which is a very similar vehicle, is a motorcycle.

The BugE, assembled, will cost around $8,000 by the time it is on the road if you do the work yourself. You can buy one fully assembled for around $10,000. The BugE weights about 350 lbs with the batteries, I think. It is not built of lightweight materials, particularly, so I am sure this can be reduced, but I don't think it can be reduced by that much. In particular, the weight of batteries to go 30 miles will be significant. The weight of the body will also be non-trivial, in particular the seats. Anyway, I think most people here realize this is not a real vehicle.

Finally, at least in the US, the market for this vehicle will be very small, even if it was exactly that the "designer" specified. In reality, the price of gas is still too low for most people to consider a significant change in the way they commute, run errands, etc. It has fallen below $3.00 here. For that price, it would take at least two years to make up the cost of the vehicle. And where are you going to keep it? Without full coverage, keeping it outside will increase depreciation considerably.

After working on the student project, I keep coming back to an ebike as the ultimate in efficient single person commuting for anything less than 10 miles, one way. Even longer if you are a little more hard-core, but certainly 10 miles is pretty do-able by nearly anyone. It has its downsides but it is hard to argue that an inexpensive, high mpg car backing up an ebike isn't near optimal for the average commute. That is my opinion anyway. There are definitely days when I wish I had a windscreen and roof but everything is a compromise and you can't discount that the law doesn't allow just anything on the roads. An ebike is sailing along through a bit of a loophole it seems to me. If they get more popular, I am afraid someone is going to figure out there is money to be made and there will be regulation and licenses and fees of every sort. Right now, you can add an ebike to your commuting picture for virtually no recurring cost so the payback period is relatively short.

I think truly inexpensive weatherproof personal transportation will continue to be frustratingly distant. When you put something on the road that looks like a car, you have to meet certain legal requirements that are going to drive the price up and make the vehicle heavier than it could be. Building a dicey experimental vehicle in your garage is one thing. Mass producing them and selling them is another. You have to be able to defend yourself against the inevitable law suit and that is going to cost serious money.

Your way of looking at things seems real close to mine. Sometimes it can feel lonely, so I was glad to read this!
 
Some have tried ...

http://columbiacycleworks.com/

Moving the 1% to 51% by example can be lonely.
 
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