biggest badest hub motor for 135mm dropout?

[mvly]

What is the biggest badest hub motor for 135mm drop out? I am going to get the ideal battery for my 135mm drop mountain bike. I currently run an HS3545 motor on it but find it heating up fast at 40mph sustained. Slight hills brings it to 130C fast. So far I only see the crown as the ideal candidate. But I hear there were problems at higher than 74V battery. I van always get the H4080 or wider version of the HS, but I feel like that is just a slight upgrade and not worth getting because I might still want to upgrade again.

Cromotor and the 5403 is for 150mm drop out.

Any recommendations?

 

[cal3thousand]

What is the biggest badest hub motor for 135mm drop out? I am going to get the ideal battery for my 135mm drop mountain bike. I currently run an HS3545 motor on it but find it heating up fast at 40mph sustained. Slight hills brings it to 130C fast. So far I only see the crown as the ideal candidate. But I hear there were problems at higher than 74V battery. I van always get the H4080 or wider version of the HS, but I feel like that is just a slight upgrade and not worth getting because I might still want to upgrade again.

Cromotor and the 5403 is for 150mm drop out.

Any recommendations?

What is your main target? max speed?

 

[Trackman417]

At 40 amps and 20s lipo, you won't be overheating the 4080 as fast as the 3540 lol. It's the best upgrade for the money from where you are at currently. I upgraded my 3540 to the 4065 and it gets warm but not as uncomfortably warm as the 3540 got. You may find that the 4080 consumes less amps at the same speed which will help manage the heat at speed.
Running the 3540 on 20s lipo it would always consume 40 amps at WOT accelerating to the top speed and then cruise at 40 amps. Now with the 4065, I'm using 16-17 amps at 35 mph and I very rarely hit peaks of 40amps. I can only imagine the 4080 will use about 20-25 amps at 40mph.

 

[mvly]

What is the biggest badest hub motor for 135mm drop out? I am going to get the ideal battery for my 135mm drop mountain bike. I currently run an HS3545 motor on it but find it heating up fast at 40mph sustained. Slight hills brings it to 130C fast. So far I only see the crown as the ideal candidate. But I hear there were problems at higher than 74V battery. I van always get the H4080 or wider version of the HS, but I feel like that is just a slight upgrade and not worth getting because I might still want to upgrade again.

Cromotor and the 5403 is for 150mm drop out.

Any recommendations?

What is your main target? max speed?

40mph sustained with ability to hit 55mph flat no head wind.

I will be using it on 24s limn battery. (88.8V) nominal.

I have also looked at the simulator and base on the weight I have on my bike, all the HS/HT motors will over heat eventually. I know these are worst case numbers, but I would like something where I can run without worries regardless of hills.

So far only the crown (TC-80) does not over heat at 40mph.

There is no data for the 4080 or 4065.

 

[John in CR]

The biggest baddest would be a motor modified to fit along with an attachment to make the bike accept the larger axle. The short wheelbase and high CG of your bike can't make use of the torque possible from those motors though, but overkill is good as long as you can tolerate the compromise of all that additional unsprung mass. If a hacker like me can modify motors anyone can.

 

[cal3thousand]

Those overheat numbers are stock motors though.

I'm sure you could increase the capability with some cooling and phase wire mods. I would stick with sensorless so the weak link (with regard to heat) is removed (Halls).

The wider stators should help with that too

 

[electr0n]

Have you considered putting your HS3540 into a 20" wheel to see how much it changes the performance? I switched mine from a 26" to 20" wheel and it doesn't get hot at 88.8v 90 amps riding it pretty hard. It goes up between 40 and 45 mph for me, not quite what you wanted but it's not like you can go faster than that for long anyway. For my city riding stop and go I prefer the performance in the smaller wheel.

 

[mvly]

The biggest baddest would be a motor modified to fit along with an attachment to make the bike accept the larger axle. The short wheelbase and high CG of your bike can't make use of the torque possible from those motors though, but overkill is good as long as you can tolerate the compromise of all that additional unsprung mass. If a hacker like me can modify motors anyone can.

Yeah I am not much a hacker,... at least not mechanically. I just don't have the tools. I am sure you can do much more than a normal mechanical hacker can John. : )

Those overheat numbers are stock motors though.

I'm sure you could increase the capability with some cooling and phase wire mods. I would stick with sensorless so the weak link (with regard to heat) is removed (Halls).

The wider stators should help with that too

Yeah I know wider stators is better. And the overheat numbers are for stocks. But again, I am not too mechanically inclined to drill holes, upgrade phase wires, etc. I don't like to modify my motor. Moreover, I would have to take care of things such as weather issues and such. Also I like to start on from dead stop instead of running sensorless. For some reason, my sensorless controller runs hot and weaker. So I would only use it for backup. I have not tried Lyen's sensorless. But the Crystalyte sensorless is very hot, even at low wattage. Maybe it's not efficient.

Have you considered putting your HS3540 into a 20" wheel to see how much it changes the performance? I switched mine from a 26" to 20" wheel and it doesn't get hot at 88.8v 90 amps riding it pretty hard. It goes up between 40 and 45 mph for me, not quite what you wanted but it's not like you can go faster than that for long anyway. For my city riding stop and go I prefer the performance in the smaller wheel.

Yeah I guess I can go smaller wheels. But regardless, if I am dishing out money for a new wheel build or wheel + motor build, might as well look into the baddest 135mm drop out hub motor there is.

So far I think my only choice is to run the TC-100 if I am going 24s limn or TC-80 and maybe 28s or 30s to get what I need. But the TC-100 is crazy expensive now. Also I have no idea if it will work at higher than 20s lipo voltage. Maybe I should wait it out and aim for 35mph continuous and maybe 50mph top speed using my current HS3545.

 

[davec]

135mm is a challenge since some of the big motors wont fit
but 5403 has a 135mm version if you can find one(most of the 54xx are for 150mm or lathe a 150mm down so it fits)...... tc-80 would be good
or 53xx series-

 

[MadRhino]

If you are after performance, you have to stop looking for a fit.
Make it fit. :wink:

 

[mvly]

If you are after performance, you have to stop looking for a fit.
Make it fit. :wink:

Well the way I see it is either I do it myself or pay someone else to do.

I like the latter because I don't have much time. And I wouldn't trust my mechanical work anyways.

 

[bowlofsalad]

If the frame is steel, you can certainly gain a little space by spreading the dropouts apart either with your hands or with a car jack. Some argue that spreading the dropouts at all is a risky thing to do, I am not disagreeing so keep that in mind.

 

[Samd]

Do you want torque or speed. Do you want lots of torque at mid speed, or do you want it at takeoff. Do you want modest weight or a lot?

Scroll down to the fighter - swapping a DD hub for a geared isn't for everyone, but in Kepler's specific instance it made a lot of good sense for that bike.
http://www.electricbike.com/stealth-hot-rod/

Comparing power across hubs isn't very fruitful but it's a habit we've inherited from the car industry. Torque/speed curves are good.
http://www.ebikes.ca/simulator/

 

[cal3thousand]

This situation might just be a valid use for 2 motors. Spreading the workload and heat...