Build advice - ezee vs Mac, ca Infineon vs mini-e

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Tats

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Just about sold one of my two ebikes - so obviously the cash is going to upgraditis....

75kg rider, giant reign 1 26inch mtb, 36v bbs01 25a with ca v2.3 wanting a few more kmhs keeping 36v battery, preferring pas. Running 48t x 11t 9 speed.

Looking to keep 10s9p Samsung 32e pack - 28.35 ah. Wanting around 45km pavement range at 80% charge. Ride is 40km flat with biggest slopes 2x500m at 8% and 2x2km at 4%. Wanting top speed on flat 40-45 kmh max. Current average over 40km is 32kmh with pedalling. Wanting to be able to set different performance levels and minimal wiring. Currently <15 wh/km.

Motor option - thinking Mac (8t for desired performance?) vs ezee (350) - laced into rear 26 disc with 9speed preferably cassette
Controller - Infineon 30a or 40a with ca v3 and pot or going with adaptto mini-e (I like the mini-e idea for neatness/future)
Pas - cadence vs torque sensor (never ridden torque sensor)

Any/all input appreciated-not changing voltage at this stage though, that's for another time.
 
Motor option - thinking Mac (8t for desired performance?) vs ezee (350) - laced into rear 26 disc with 9speed preferably cassette
Click to expand...

Last time I looked, both the Mac and the Ezee do not offer a cassette mount option. They are free-wheel only motors.
One larger geared motor that takes a cassette is the Bafang CST;
https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-kit/804-bafang-36v500w-cst-rear-driving-hub-motor-ebike-kit.html
Both the Bafang and the Ezee are mid-speed motors and are only going to get to about 36 Kph on 36 Volts and the 8T only to 39 KPH. You would have to go w/ the 6T, a less than desirable combo in a 26" wheel, IMO.
A more suitable option would be a 48 V battery, which would get you to 45 plus Kph in either the Bafang or Ezee.
If you decide the Bafang might be an option, you could use a battery and controller from BMS Battery. While the CA and Infineon are quality products, the new sine wave "torque imitation" controllers w/ their 5-level Current limiter offer a great PAS experience at a budget price.
 
Thanks for the reply - I was looking at grins motor sim for the ezee 350rpm and thought I may get the speed as per below. Not sure about this motors torque tho for the slopes. Am I reading the graph wrong?

The other thought was maybe ovs mode on the mini-e with the 8t?

The other option I guess if the geared isn't going to work would be if the bbs02/01 500w kv differs from my bbs01 350 windings?
 

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motomech said:
Motor option - thinking Mac (8t for desired performance?) vs ezee (350) - laced into rear 26 disc with 9speed preferably cassette
Click to expand...
Last time I looked, both the Mac and the Ezee do not offer a cassette mount option. They are free-wheel only motors.
Click to expand...

There is a cassette version of the MAC, I just ordered one from em3ev. It's 138mm wide instead of 135mm. Don't know much more about it, including cassette compatibility. Will find out when it gets here I guess.

Here's some more information on it: http://www.macmc.com.cn/product/60512933375-200913141/Mac_wheel_hub_motor_cassette_freewheel_ebike_motor.html
 
I had plugged the Ezee 250 into the sim.
The higher speed 350 has a motor speed the same as the 8T, 320 rpm @ 36V-38V, although the Ebike CA has to 350 going faster than Paul's est. for 8T.
In general, using higher Volts/lower speed motor to achive a given road speed would be more efficient, but the Ebike sim does not show a large difference @ no-load speed ;
350 @ 36V = 81%
250 @ 48V = 83.5 %

Also, the sim. does not show the 350 @ 36V to be prone to over-heating, so I suppose there is no reason not to use this combo.

I also noticed in the Ebike CA blog a mention of a cassette capable Ezee is now being offered. But I don't see it in the products section. perhaps it has to be special ordered.

Also, you may have noticed Paul's recommendation for controllers for high-speed motors in larger wheels;
Min. 9-FET for the 8T in 26" wheel. This is due to the controller's tendency to apply higher currents in these combos.
 
Tats said:
Interesting thanks - what controller/ volts / amps you going run?
Click to expand...

I'm using em3ev's 50V kit (or 52V with other suppliers) found here: http://em3ev.com/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=50_45&product_id=186
Went with the middle winding which gives a max speed of 40km/h (25mph) - I think this is the 10T winding, 40A controller and the 26.6Ah 14S9P-30Q battery pack. The 30Q's delivers 40A continuous I think.

Hoping to use torque assist peddling to average 50 km/h (30mh) for my 18km (11 mile) commute.

First ebike, quite excited!
 
Option 1 is Mac 8t, ca v3, pot, 6 fet 25a 3077 Infineon and pas
Option 2 as above but 9 fet 3077 30a
Option 3 as above tdcm torque sensor
Option 4 Mac 8t, ca v3, pot, 12 fet 3077 40a
Option 5 Mac 8t, adaptto mini-e and pas

40a gives 50% more torque at 30 kmh than the 25a but the controller is very big-so the mini-e looks an easier more stealthy fit. I'm thinking I need the bigger amps to get torque with this speed motor.

The pack is 10s9p 32e cells so 40a peak would still be less than 1.5C. The mini-e display is nice too. Anyone using a mini-e with a Mac? Probably overkill on the controller but would fit any future upgrade. Is 1.5C ok with the 32e?
 
In all honesty you're better off getting either a slow winding DD hub or mid-drive than a geared hub. A geared hub has one major flaw and that is it's clutch and I've had to replace the clutch on all 4 of my MAC hubs within 4 - 6 months of getting it and that's not reliable IMHO. Ive had roughly the same amount of DD hubs and didn't have one problem other than spinning the axle out of the dropout on the first DD hub I bought. Dont get me wrong as I still love my MAC but I can no longer suggest buying any geared hub because of that big flaw. The big plus with the MAC now is that EM3ev offers a year warranty on their hubs and that makes it a little better but the problem isn't fixed.
 
I don't think you are going to damage gears on 36 Volts.
With the high speed wind(W/ geared motors, I think the word "wind" might be a misnomer), the motor is not going to have that much "snap" to it. Frankly, I have found that I feel if I'm abusing the gears has far as breaking teeth(ie; riding off road). I swear I can feel them flexing.
As far as melting them, I think that takes lot's of volts.
Hub motors are great if one doesn't need a wide range of speed. I thing of geared motors being like the 2-speed Power Glide trans I had in my '65 Chevy, fine if you don't mind cruiz"en @ 55 M.p.h. But it was simple and bullet-proof.
The Bafangs are fine up too 30 Mph, but above that, the Mac or the Ezee.
You're not doing anything crazy, you're just using low Voltages to do it.
Speaking of which,
40a gives 50% more torque at 30 kmh than the 25a but the controller is very big-so the mini-e looks an easier more stealthy fit. I'm thinking I need the bigger amps to get torque with this speed motor.
Click to expand...
Be careful what wish for.
My Ezee is a mid-speed with a mild controller, but I have a lot's of experience w/ high-speed mini's in big wheels and they are hard on controllers. For electro-motive forces that I don't quite understand, they try and pull max amps much of the time. Well, on my rear low-powered motor, I have the throttle pegged most of the if not pedaling for exersize.
I pick a controller that is moderate power and a larger size. With a 320 rpm @36V motor, I think a 40 Amp controller will be trying to move 40 Amps much of the time.
But that is with a low-powered system. Perhaps with a larger motor, controller over-heating won't be a consideration.
 
Thanks guys for the info - my longer term view is to go for a full build like a Flx Beta, but buying stuff and fitting it to my current bike first is the plan - thats why the 36v for now.

So I'm now pretty much convinced I first want to try out the mini-e on my bbs as this is a fairly easy install before I make the commitment to rear motor as there is clearly a lot more research I have to do on this.
The Luna cycle mini-e install on the BBS HD looks like it was a success and had some benefits over the standard - noting this was the HD and higher voltage than mine - so as a future controller the adaptto looks very promising.

And, having not owned a rear hub, geared or DD, and not knowing whether or not weight is an issue, or torque is an issue, or current draw is an issue, I have no idea what benefit if any I'll get going from the bbs to rear power on low volts - other than improved drivetrain longevity and potentially a higher cruising speed. My ride is pretty much all cruise in the top 1 or 2 gears with a couple of mild slopes and at current cruise speed the motor is drawing less than 10A right now so things are pretty efficient too at less than 15wh/km. As the second bike is now gone, I'm looking to invest the funds before the finance minister makes an executive decision to commandeer them - so the mini-e looks like it could be the first step on the route to a lightweight Beta build....
 
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