CC ESC - Throttelizer Connection Issues

[MrBoots]

Hi guys. I need to pick some of your knowledgeable brains. I recently received and connected the RC Throttelizer to my CC Phoenix ICE 100 ESC. The problem I seem to be having now is that the throttle doesn't seem to turn the motor. Instead, the red LED flashes and the motor beeps. Have any of your encountered this problem before?

I've shot over an email to Andrew but figured I'd post here because so many of you are using the RC ESC's with the RC Throttelizer. I've recorded it and apologize in advance for the poor video quality. [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUyRoYNvLfE[/youtube]

 

[Thud]

magura or hall throttle?

 

[AussieJester]

You need to delete everything before the equals sign "=" in the youtube URL so it embeds in the video
the forum coding does the rest of the URL automatically...

[youtube]VUyRoYNvLfE[/youtube]

As to your issue, i would guess it is throttle related ...then again haha i had a EV Logix throttlizer that never worked
form the time i received it so i wouldn't be discounting that out after seeing how mine
was assembled...i.e very badly...still shits me i paid a 100 bucks plus freight for something that never worked.
Have you checked the LED flashing code on the hv100 and looked up what the code says the problem is in the HV100 manual?
Pretty much tells yoiu what the problem is...if its the same as my hv110 and hv160 CC escs

Hope you get it sorted anywayz...

KiM

 

[www.evlogix.com]

Hello all, we test out all products that are sent out and over 95% have had no problems that couldn't be resolved by email. As with most things, there's the possibility that something will not be connected correctly causing something to go wrong. Since this is the Beta version, if you have this issue, please send it back and we'll repair it for FREE and send it back for FREE so that you can get it working right away. It is crucial that we receive any non-working throttelizers so we can find out what problems were encountered and how we can address those issues in future versions (And exit the Beta stage). We don't really have the luxury of a huge pool of local BETA users because there aren't enough potential users in the local area for it to be significant.

Most of the problems that have been encountered with the throttle have been linked to not connecting the throttle correctly. After looking at the video, it appears it's constantly resetting. If the throttle is connected wrong, it's possible the throttle is shorting out causing the automatic circuit breaker in the throttelizer to constantly reset it, thus causing the controller to consistently re-arm.

You can see more information at http://www.evlogix.com/content.php?link=rcthrot_beta11_manual on this topic. Making sure you've followed the guidelines below should ensure that it's connected correctly.

Attention Magura Throttle Owners:
The magura throttle doesn't appear to have conventional wire color coding, so it may conflict with the below suggestions. The magura needs to be wired specifically as follows:

Magura Black to Black
Magura Blue to Red
Magura Brown to Green.


The black one is the ground connection and most Pot or Hall throttles will have a black or brown wire that this will connect to. The Red one is 5V power and would connect to a red wire on most throttles. The green one is the throttle wire, and would connect to any other wire that isn't brown, black or red - usually, it's either colored blue or green.

 

[AussieJester]

Hello all, we test out all products that are sent out and over 95% have had no problems that couldn't be resolved by email. As with most things, there's the possibility that something will not be connected correctly causing something to go wrong. Since this is the Beta version, if you have this issue, please send it back and we'll repair it for FREE and send it back for FREE so that you can get it working right away. It is crucial that we receive any non-working throttelizers so we can find out what problems were encountered and how we can address those issues in future versions (And exit the Beta stage). We don't really have the luxury of a huge pool of local BETA users because there aren't enough potential users in the local area for it to be significant.

Why isn't a complete refund offered for DOA units if the customer doesn't want repair ? ? Would you be impressed if you forked out $US137 (including freight charges) for a a product that never worked? You never offered FREE shipping to me why is it all of a sudden offered i wonder Andrew?

Blessing in disguise for you MrBoots, theres a thread floating about by the electrical geniuses of the forum discussing why these current limiting devices like the Throtelizer are useless in protecting the speed controller and are in fact worse for them than having no limiting at all, Liveforphysics explains it in more detail in the thread, do yourself favor and contact Recumpence for a servo/bec kit...plug and play with magura throttle...

KiM

 

[MrBoots]

Hey guys, I'm actually using a hall throttle. It worked perfectly fine with my previous set-up which consisted of an E-Crazyman controller with halls mounted around the outrunner. However, that controller died on me hence why I'm using the CC ESC with Throttelizer. I'm at work now, but once I get home I'll double-check the wiring on the throttle and report back. Thanks for the info guys.

 

[www.evlogix.com]

You never offered FREE shipping to me why is it all of a sudden offered i wonder Andrew?

I apologize if this wasn't emphasized enough in our communication. I don't necessarily capitalize all the time.

In regard to the current limit, the throttelizer has a pretty high current limit ceiling so it can effectively work as "not current limited" at full throttle. The problem comes at partial throttle usage. With the throttelizer's "Current controlled mode", the current is limited according to the throttle which lets you directly control power delivery to the motor by way of limiting. If this limit didn't exist, the motor could be getting as much amps as it needs depending on the situation. So, partial throttle usage is safer with the throttelizer than without it because you're limiting the power delivery - many blown ESCs have been blown at partial throttle which did not control the power, which also is a reason why power can be "jumpy"/"quirky" with ordinary throttles. And, the throttelizer can be programmed so that it immediately cuts out once the controller's temperature exceeds the safe temperature limit if you worry that "slowing cutting back" as temperature increases would be dangerous.

 

[liveforphysics]

f this limit didn't exist, the motor could be getting as much amps as it needs depending on the situation. So, partial throttle usage is safer with the throttelizer than without it because you're limiting the power delivery -

This is not the case. Even dishing out much higher power and current levels at full throttle, the ESC can be making loads less heat than when current limiting forces it to partial throttle. Castle Creations even wrote an article about in response to the number of ESC's that blew for people just setting up/ trimming RC heli's with them spinning at 10% throttle, the same ESC that would fly at 80-100% throttle with no issues.

It involves a variety of causes (switching RdsOn/Off transitional resistance, freewheel clamping, duty% current multiplication, recicrculating currents from wider gaps in the waveform etc), we have a few threads dedicate to it.

 

[liveforphysics]

This is not the exact article about the heli ESC's blowing, but it's on the same topic. Right from Castle Creations own website FAQ section.
http://www.castlecreations.com/support/faq/faq-mamba_max.html#max6

Can I control how much current passes through my speed controller by limiting full throttle travel on my transmitter with endpoint adjustments/trim? In other words can I use a 25 amp speed controller with a motor that will pull 45 amps but lower my top throttle endpoint on my transmitter so my watt meter only shows 25 amps at full throttle? Will this be OK?
NO!!! A speed controller controls power to the motor by turning full throttle current on and off really fast, 11 to 13 thousand times per second (Pulse Width Modulation or PWM). The percentage of each on/off pulse that is off compared to the part that is on determines how much power the motor sees. I.E. With a pulse that is 50% off and 50% on the motor will see 50% power*. Because each on pulse is 100% of full throttle current, a system set to pull 20 amps at full throttle through a Phoenix 10 will not last if you are throttled back to the point where you only see 10 amps on a wattmeter. The ESC in this case is still switching 20 amps, which it can’t do for long. Actually it is worse than the simple example above. Because an electric motor will always to try to pull as much power as is available to get to its rpm (volts times Kv), when you are running the motor below its Kv speed by switching power on an off, each on pulse will actually be way over the full throttle amp draw. That is why ESCs work harder at partial throttle than full throttle and why we underrate our ESCs. We underrate not so they can handle more current than their rating at full throttle, but so they can handle extended partial throttle operation with no problems.

 

[liveforphysics]

Also... since the FETs never see battery current anyways, the place to monitor/limit would be the phase currents.

Battery currents are only felt in the power traces leading to a circulating current path between the caps and the source tabs of the fets. This isn't the part we need to protect.

 

[www.evlogix.com]

f this limit didn't exist, the motor could be getting as much amps as it needs depending on the situation. So, partial throttle usage is safer with the throttelizer than without it because you're limiting the power delivery -

This is not the case. Even dishing out much higher power and current levels at full throttle, the ESC can be making loads less heat than when current limiting forces it to partial throttle.

I agree. Revisiting the whole text,

In regard to the current limit, the throttelizer has a pretty high current limit ceiling so it can effectively work as "not current limited" at full throttle. The problem comes at partial throttle usage. With the throttelizer's "Current controlled mode", the current is limited according to the throttle which lets you directly control power delivery to the motor by way of limiting. If this limit didn't exist, the motor could be getting as much amps as it needs depending on the situation.

If you don't want current limiting, you don't have to. Just set it to its maximum, and it'll practically act like a non-current limit because the "limit" is so high.

The problem comes in at partial throttle. If a person is using partial throttle, the ESC is going to make a lot of heat, with or without a throttelizer. For those without a "current controlled" throttle, you can't effectively regulate the power to the motor so high power spikes that will occur can be particularly damaging. With a current controlled throttle, where less throttle equals less battery current, you can regulate the power going to motor effectively eliminating power spikes which makes equal to or less than heat than unregulated use at partial throttle. I could run some tests to show this, but I'm the vendor so my results wouldn't be trusted. If a disinterested tester wants to objectively evaluate this, I'd be more than happy to have the results known.

As far as I know, no one who's actually used the temperature protection appropriately has blown their controller with the throttelizer due to heating issues. However, I've heard many reports of people who've blown their controllers without effective power regulation.

 

[MrBoots]

Hey fellas! Thanks for the help, turns out it was my throttle after-all. I dropped it awhile ago so it looks to be out of commission. I've already ordered a replacement so hopefully I can get this bike running again after a long hiatus.

 

[MrBoots]

UPDATE: Replaced the throttle with another hall-effect and still nothing seems to work. I even hooked up a twist grip throttle from my scooter and still the same result. Is the red LED on the Throttelizer supposed to stay on once it's connected to the battery and activated? After the its initially hooked up, the LED on mine only stays on for a second or two. The CC ESC continues to flash and beeps 4 to 5 times (which according to the manual would indicate either lost syncronization with the motor OR no signal from the receiver, in this case, the Throttelizer). This is a really frustrating situation to the point where I'm tempted to just buy a UBEC and Servo Driver and just use the Throttelizer as a passive current limiter.

 

[www.evlogix.com]

It's possible that the automatic circuit was reset too many times that it's now intermittent in operation. I've sent you a PM with details on the free speedy repair.

 

[MrBoots]

Thanks Andrew, but I just fixed the problem. It turns out ALL the hall-effect throttles I had weren't working. I returned the defective ones and just bought one locally and walla, it worked! Now I've just got to sort out the chain tension issues I've been having and this puppy will be back on the road again. A friend and I have agreed to do an ebike vs. car vs. mass transit commuter race across Boston within the next couple weeks so I'll have a video of the bike up soon (hopefully, with me destroying both other modes of transportation without destroying myself or the bike in the process lol).