Dahon Matrix folding MTB - X5304 - stock Makita LiMn packs

B

bms

100 µW
Joined
Jul 22, 2008
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8
Purchased this 2008 Dahon Matrix folding mountain bike for 8 mile round trip commute to work. Route includes hills, short dirt road, and some sidewalk riding. Wanted folding bike to ease storing inside office building. Decided to add electric-assist to flatten terrain and reduce excuses for not riding.

Al frame, 26", f/r disks, front suspension, hardtail, ok components...

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Local ebiker talked me into getting Crystallyte 5304 rear hub motor. More to come...
 
Purchased Crystalyte 5304 rear hub, 36-72v Crystalyte analog controller, Cycle Analyst from Ebikes.ca.
Purchased 48V10ah LiPO4 battery from iloveebikes.com. Could not find bigger LiPO4 as China shipments were shut down during Olympics.

Mounted X5304 in rear forks after minor filing of aluminum flats for fit. Attached stainless torque arm from Ampededbikes.com.

Attached beefy Tubus rear rack and mounted removable/lockable rear case (Givi imitation). Mounted battery and controller inside case. Mounted cheap kill switch from Harbor Freight on front of case. Connectors provided by Ebikes.ca simplified electrical hookup between motor, controller, battery, and cycle analyst.

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Bike performed very nicely at 48V! Top speed of 30 mph on flats. Easily pulls "hills" here in Gainesville, Florida. Had to go easy on throttle, as Cycle Analyst showed limitations of battery (2C continuous/5C burst) could easily be exceeded with this motor/controller combination. Reluctantly, 40 amp limit was set with CA. Pulls approximately 32 wh/mile at normal cruise around 20 mph.

Without a rider, the bike is very top heavy due to the high battery location; added a 2-legged kickstand from comcycle-usa.com which works ok on even pavement. The bike feels normal once a rider is onboard.

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The aluminum frame is stiff, and the folding mechanism seems very beefy. But, one rider had trouble with longitudinal wobbling, apparently set up by poor riding technique and the battery weight high on the rear rack.

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The excessive weight of the X5304 and battery on the hardtail is punishing on the rear inner tube which must be kept well inflated to protect the rim. The heavy duty 12 ga. spokes needed repeated tightening.

Overall I am pleased with the setup. It is heavier than I expected, and I can only pedal it without the motor in low gears. It is faster than I need for a simple commute, but it is a blast to zip around in near silence. I wonder what it would be like at 72V...
 
Planning same bike w/ BMC new 600w Speed version, Clyte 35amp analog controller, CA, and still looking at Headway 36v 10aH from evcomponents or other batteries.

did the rear disc line up ok mounted on the motor?

HOw about throttle? can it fit a twist on the left with the shifter?

Oh yeah, you must get a THUDBUSTER, easy to find on ebay.

WHere did you get the bike? $$

thanks,

NGK
 
nightowlgk,

X3504 did not have rear disc flange, so used existing mounts to install standard v-brake. Combined with front disc, braking is no problem...

Half-twist throttle and shifter fits fine on left side...

Thudbuster would be better than gel seat, but bigger issue is lack of rear suspension which would help absorb weight-related impacts on rim and battery packs.

Got bike on fleabay...

Good luck!
 
Hi BMS,

I think there are a few folks like myself looking for the same info you have provided. Thanks!
Your writing is excellent and you should consider blogging your electric Dahon, the way Steve Hauck has done.
FYI I registered here today just for this thread... :)


Some questions:
1) What motivated you to go with a rear wheel kit, instead of a front? And do those desired attributes still "win" given your F/R weight ratio and center of gravity? Any small regrets?
2) How difficult WAS it to install a electric rear? What was your bike-maintenance level of experience before attempting this?
Reason I ask is the owner of ampedbikes.com advises folks to get the front hubs, and has no documentation for a rear install.

So I get from that site that more "mechanical inclination" is needed for a read hub, but I'm not sure how that translates: do you need a lot more bike repair skill, or just patience and elbow grease? Did you need a lot of uncommon tools for this task? Any issues with attaching the stock rear gears onto the new electric hub? Any issues with regard to the disc brakes and the hub? Did proprietary Dahon parts cause you any grief?
Sorry for the shotgun questions :)
3) I'm moderately technical but not so much on troubleshooting an electric drivetrain. I'm probably going with the ampedbikes kit for the all in one support (I'm also in the USA... no ebikes.ca). Do you see any issues with the AB rear kit and the Matrix?
4) On either a front or rear electric hub install, could you imagine the front shock causing any kind of parasitic energy loss on acceleration?
My hunch is "no" - that would only be a concern on a bike equipped with rear shocks.
5) What IS your weight of your battery pack + case BTW?
In my case, I'd be trying to mount my batteries in the frame for balance. The main reason I am looking at a rear hub is allegedly you can pedal faster than with a front hub...

Again, sorry for so many questions. I've mostly done my homework on the electric kits and the battery options.
The biggest fuzzy for me is getting it all to mate to the riding platform. THANKS!

FYI - my commute would (each way) be 12.5 miles by street with hills, or 16 miles on a graded paved "rail trail".
 
Hi scottinNH,

Thanks for positive feedback!

1) What motivated you to go with a rear wheel kit, instead of a front? And do those desired attributes still "win" given your F/R weight ratio and center of gravity? Any small regrets?

I chose rear motor over front because: 1) Aluminum front fork is structurally much weaker than rear dropouts, and front failure is more dangerous than rear, 2) X5304 is very heavy and may negatively affect steering, 3) Weight transfer to rear when traveling uphill can result in poor traction in front wheel drive. Others have had no problem with front wheel motors; use a lighter motor and good torque arms for best results. The F/R weight ratio is better with front hub, but the extra weight on the steering is a disadvantage. Center of gravity is an issue for both configurations when you are off the bike, but once you are mounted your weight is far greater than the motor/battery and the CG feels normal.

2) How difficult WAS it to install a electric rear? What was your bike-maintenance level of experience before attempting this?
Reason I ask is the owner of ampedbikes.com advises folks to get the front hubs, and has no documentation for a rear install.

Front hub is dead easy to install, but rear hub is only slightly more difficult. You just need to learn how to: 1) manipulate the derailler/rear chain to remove/replace the rear wheel, 2) remove gear cassette from rear wheel and install on hub motor (you will need tool to remove cassette), and 3) replace disc brake (Matrix has mounts to installed standard V-brake to replace rear disc brake). Dahon parts are pretty standard, and cassette mounted on X5304 no problem. Online tutorials/books are available, or any bike shop can help you. Installation should not influence your decision.

3) I'm moderately technical but not so much on troubleshooting an electric drivetrain. I'm probably going with the ampedbikes kit for the all in one support (I'm also in the USA... no ebikes.ca). Do you see any issues with the AB rear kit and the Matrix?

Ampedbikes kit looks fine, but possibly underpowered compared to X5304. However, X5304 is ridiculously heavy, and you may not want the extra power. Electrical connections should be plug and play for any "kit". I'm in USA and had no problems with ebikes.ca. Support was excellent, including replacing controller.

4) On either a front or rear electric hub install, could you imagine the front shock causing any kind of parasitic energy loss on acceleration?

Front or rear shocks shouldn't affect acceleration - hub motors do not have great acceleration unless you go for high voltage (e.g. 72V)...

5) What IS your weight of your battery pack + case BTW?

Battery pack/controller/case is ~ 25 lbs. Mounting batteries in frame would be nice, but handling might not be very different once you are mounted, and unless batteries are easy to remove you lose the benefit of the folding frame. Pedaling is very difficult with my rear X5304 at all but lowest gears.

Good luck!
 
I have a mounting method in the triangle I'm working on for my new Ping 36/15. It is just big enough.

My current Bosch torpedo balances the bike perfectly with my rear BMC. CLyte motor and battery on back is really not doing this bike justice.

It rides very well when you distribute the weight.
 
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