Do I have this straight?

[Iron Yeti]

My boss is an electrician and gave me a crash course in electrical properties today. So just to make sure I have this straight I would like to propose this to you folks.

I am going to buy the X-504 model. The main reason is here in Northwestern Connecticut there are tons of hills and I need the torque to climb aforementioned hills. So, first question. Along with the X-504 can I use the Series 4 '20A(36V-72V) DUAL SPEED CONTROLLER with Cruise Control Input. (Instant Start)'
http://www.poweridestore.com/Brushless-Controllers/Series-4-Controllers/20A36V-72V-DUAL-SPEED-CONTROLLER-Instant-Start-with-Cruise-C

Will this work since I am running 36V/20Ah or will the controller not work with the newer series motor?

Along with this my plan is to buy a set of 22 LiFeP04 batteries rated at 3.3V/10Ah and doing 11x2 series and 2x parallel 36.3/20Ah (I don't know if I wrote that right, haha).

At 750W for the X-504 using a 36V battery the motor is going to be drawing 20Ah (750/36=20Ah) So, 36V/20Ah will last me about an hour at maximum speed with no pedaling. Pedal to the metal the motor will be running at about 24Mph meaning that if the battery can output 20A, in one hour the battery will depleted, so I can travel about 15-20 miles on a charge taking into account hills, friction, weight, etc. Is this correct?

My last question is. If the controller I plan to buy is rated at 36-72V/20Ah I can later on add a second 36V/20Ah battery pack for longer distances with no issues, correct?

Thanks.

 

[Toshi]

A couple of things:

1) I'd recommend buying from http://ebikes.ca/store/ . I'm unaffiliated with them but chose to purchase my wares through them because of good customer support and extra features you won't get elsewhere, namely integrated wiring for a Cycle Analyst.

2) You want a Cycle Analyst. See the ebikes.ca link above. It is all singing and dancing, seriously. It's great.

3) Running a x5 motor at 36V with a 20A limit controller seems like a terrible idea to me. Unless you're running at 48V at 35A I'd think that a 4-series motor would suit you better. Again, see the km/h per V legend on the helpful ebikes.ca page above -- you won't get much speed out of an 5304 at 36V, and it's a lot of weight to be hauling around if you're not going to use its full capabilities.

4) Range depends on many, many factors. Setting power output arbitrarily at 750W and back of napkining it from there doesn't seem a good way to figure out range. What most of us use is Wh/mile (which is Ah * Voltage divided by the mileage traveled -- or is spit out automatically by the Cycle Analyst if you have one). I personally use about 25 Wh/mile traveling at close to 20 mph on average. What use is Wh/mile? Well, your battery pack has its theoretical capacity in Wh (which is the Ah times the nominal voltage). Divided that by the Wh/mile you probably will use and you have a guess at range.

5) Yes, you can add on additional 36V batteries in parallel, but again I don't think a x5 at 36V is what you want.

6) I sound like a broken record, but I'd strongly suggest emailing or calling the ebikes.ca folks and running your proposed parts list by them. http://ebikes.ca/contacts.shtml

 

[Iron Yeti]

I would go with the 408 model but I am not sure it could handle the hills in my area. I am really torn between the X-504 and the 408. My biggest fear is that the 408 will overheat and shut down going up some of these hills.

Seeing as how there is no way in hell I can afford extra battery capacity I guess I am just going to have to go with the 408 and hope for the best...

 

[ngocthach1130]

Yes go with the 408 or 409 motor. Chance are it won't cut out on you. They're pretty rugged. On the other hand, you DO NOT need a dual speed controller because you're not buying dual speed motor. Just get a regular 72V 20A or 35A model. I think they should switch the name to dual winding controller because a lot of people are confuse as to what dual speed mean. They all think they need dual speed to run at slow or fast speed. You do have a throttle and that will control your speed. The dual speed controller work with dual winding motor that switch between a high torque mode or high speed winding.

 

[Iron Yeti]

Ok, but I mean, the first hill I have to go up is really steep. Haha.

Anyway, I picked that controller because it has the plug-in for cruise control, which I want. Is there a 20Ah(72V) controller with that, I can't find it.

So now that we've decided that the X-504 is going to be a waste of time and money and the 408 is the motor I want. Should I leave my battery at 33.3V/20Ah or adjust it?

 

[pwbset]

Ok, but I mean, the first hill I have to go up is really steep. Haha.

Hi Mr. Yeti. Take a look at the thread below as it may help your decision making. I'm using a 4011, which is slower than a 408, but more torquey across the power band. I'm climbing 1,600ft over 3.5 miles with it daily. It's a fairly serious workout I won't lie, but it definitely is getting the job done. The 4 series are 10+ pounds lighter than the 5 series and also over $200 cheaper. Just something to consider. With the money/weight saved there you could get a burled out 72V/35A controller and more powerful batteries like DeWalts or Milwaukees that will give you all the amp pulling you can throw at them.

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4775

 

[Iron Yeti]

Great stuff dude. I actually just found this and it seems like a dream for my needs:
http://www.poweridestore.com/Hub-Motor-Kits/Rear-Dual-Speed-Kits

The 407/4011 model seems like it'd be perfect...

 

[pwbset]

The 407/4011 model seems like it'd be perfect...

The ebike.ca guys warned me away from dual wound motors as they are less efficient than a single wind and therefore less powerful. If you're worried about hills, but also worrying about losing top end speed you can just throw more volts at it. Like you could get the single speed 409 @ 48v20a+ and that would be good for 20+mph easy and good hill pulling too. You'll have to pedal regardless... unless you're going to splurge on a 5 series with mad voltamps you'll always have to pedal at some point. It's good for us!

 

[Iron Yeti]

I should be fine with the 408. If I can squat 250lbs I should be able to move that bike up a damned hill.

Ok, I need to tell my brain to shut up and stop over analyzing. It's just that I am about to drop 1.5k on a setup and I want to get it right.

So it's settled. I am going with a 408 Model. Ok, seriously, I AM going with the 408. -_-

Alright, so, now about my batteries. I can only afford what I have now with my current budget.

Bike: Iron Horse Maverick 2.0 '07 model: $300.00 (My pops is going to pay part, or I will get a cheaper bike)
$200.00 for a bike either way.
Motor: $280.00
Controller: $145.00
Batteries: $660.00
Torque Arm x2: $25.00
Battery Box: $55.00
Bike lock: $80.00 What? I'm spending 1.5k on a bike, of course I'm going to buy a helluva bike lock...
I want a cycle analyist, can't afford currently.
Twist grip throttle: $12.00
Shipping costs? Someone help me out here. I live in Connecticut.
$1457.00

Eh, I am probably going to go over budget. Anyway, it's either a:
36.3V/20Ah setup or...
72.6V/10Ah setup

Which is better for this case?

 

[pwbset]

Ok, seriously, I AM going with the 408.

:lol: I said the same thing right up until the point I ordered a 4011.

I want a cycle analyist, can't afford currently.

Search for "Doc Watson" or "Watts Up" here. Half the price I guess for similar functionality... but not as good overall I guess.

72.6V/10Ah setup

'cause if you went 36v you'd immediately say, "damn... wish I'd gone with 72v". 8)

 

[Iron Yeti]

Yeah, but I could get 36V/20Ah which delivers more torque. Or a 72V/10Ah which I guess...gives better range?

 

[TylerDurden]

Yeah, but I could get 36V/20Ah which delivers more torque. Or a 72V/10Ah which I guess...gives better range?

More speed.

 

[Iron Yeti]

Yeah, but I could get 36V/20Ah which delivers more torque. Or a 72V/10Ah which I guess...gives better range?

More speed.

36V/20Ah gives better torque for hill climbing
72V/10Ah is good for speed/distance?

Hmm ¬_¬ I guess that's what I have legs for, guess I'll go with 72V/10Ah.

 

[TylerDurden]

Yeah, but I could get 36V/20Ah which delivers more torque. Or a 72V/10Ah which I guess...gives better range?

More speed.

36V/20Ah gives better torque for hill climbing
72V/10Ah is good for speed/distance?

Hmm ¬_¬ I guess that's what I have legs for, guess I'll go with 72V/10Ah.

I don't want you to get the wrong impression... so to clarify: each battery setup provides the same energy: 720Wh...

While 72V gives you the potential for more speed ( more V = higher rpm), going faster reduces your range.

A higher current limit on your controller can give you more torque, if your motor can take it for the length of time you desire; but more current also uses more juice... reducing your range.

36V will restrict you from going faster, and THAT (with pedalling on the hills) is the best way to increase your range.

 

[Iron Yeti]

72V/10Ah it is. Pedal to the metal. I'd rather pedal up hills to work and on days when I'm not working take that bad boy out on the flats and hit the gas.

 

[pwbset]

72V/10Ah it is.

It should also be noted that at higher voltage you get more bang for your buck per amp so in effect your torque is more effective... I think... at least that's what I'm told. You can always limit your speed via a Cycle Analyst etc.