ebike issue (has my motor a speed limit)

[tobsie]

Hi,

I own an ebike (Sparta emotion C3 dutch supplier http://www.sparta.nl/nl/elektrische_fietsen/e-motion_c3) with the following features:
- Motor is a Sanyo cmu-9 brushless 24v
- The controller is a Ananda 2415dlc-6mc0
- The battery is 25,9V 10ah
- Pas sensor
- Brake sensor
- gas handle

I don't like my current controller because of the max speed on each level (and overall max speed of 25 km/h)
1: max 12 km/h
2: max 15 km/h
3: max 18 km/h
4: max 22 km/h
5: max 25 km/h

This means that when I want to bike at a speed of 25 km/h I always have to choose level 5. At level 4 I have no support of the motor with that speed. The reason of buying an ebike was to bike at a speed of 25 km/h with max support of the motor to my office (no sweat ). On the way back I also want to bike at a speed of 25 km/h but then for example with low/medium support of the motor.
This weekend I bought a new controller and display which has power levels (delivery next weekend or so). So at level 1 10% of the motor is used and level 5 100% of the motor. There is also no speed limit on the controller. So I thought switch controller and display.
This way I thought I would get rid of the speed limits, but now I am in doubt. Could it be that the motor also has speed limits installed? Or are the programmed levels (and speedlimits) always in the controller. I hope someone has an answer.

 

[d8veh]

I think it's unlikely that the motor is speed limited. How many amps do your two controllers give? You'll need about 15 amps to maintain 25km/hr. The way most of us get more speed is with more volts, so you want to think about upgrading your battery and controller to 36v. You'll probably need a new rack too. These ones come with racks:
http://www.greenbikekit.com/index.php/36v-38120-rack.html
http://www.bmsbattery.com/36v/465-24v-lithium-ion-little-frog-abs-shell-ebike-battery-pack.html
This one comes with an adapter plateto fit to a normal rack:
http://www.bmsbattery.com/36v/316-24v-lithium-ion-little-frog-abs-shell-ebike-battery-pack.html
Both those suppliers sell very cheap 36v controllers to go with the battery.
36v will increase your speed a lot. Read this thread about how I increased the speed and power of a 24v ebike,
http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/electric-bicycles/9857-cyclamatic-beastamatic-dead-long-live-beastamatic.html

 

[tobsie]

Ok I don't think you really understand my post (or I mistyped it). I use my ebike to get support while I am biking (muscle power). I want to ride at least 25km/h on my bike. The way to work I want to use less muscle power and the way to home more muscle power. So the 24V motor is fine for me. Buit I have an issue with the support levels and max speed. This is why I bought a new controller with better levels and no max speed.
My question was if a motor also has a build in speed limit or is this alway limited in the controller? (you already answered that it is not likely, so that's assuring :-0)

 

[dogman dan]

It's not the motor so much as the battery itself, which is mated to a speed controller compatible with the battery, and with EU laws.

A 36 or 48v battery, and a new 15 amp controller for same voltage, would allow the same motor to go much faster without having enough watts to melt the motor too fast. Melting the motor is a possibility, but not a real likely one at 36v 15 amps for example. About 500w.

Basicly you are seeing a top speed in the fastest setting that is about normal for only 24v. More volts makes a motor spin faster, as well as increasing wattage.

Watts = volts x amps. So increasing volts also increases watts. You max for that motor is about 33kph, which takes 300-400 w on fairly flat ground.

It can be made to go about 40kph, with 48v and some small risk of melting the motor or wires to the motor. 1000w would be waaaaay too much.

Really, simplest thing if you can do it, is sell it now and get as much of your money back as possible. Then buy a 1000w kit and 48v 15 ah battery.

Edit. No reason you couldn't have a 48v 800w gearmotor that works the same way, that is you can pedal or motor with a freewheel in the motor. Get a Mac from Emissions Free. Select the motor speed to match the travel speed you desire. On 48v the 6t mac is very fast. 8t or 10t are slower on the same voltage. All have enough power, 500-1000w, to go up to 30 mph. The slower ones will have a top speed that is slower than 30mph, but still have power for the hills or headwinds.

 

[dogman dan]

Maybe I just made you confused.

Yes each motor has a speed limit for a given voltage. But if you change the voltage, you get a different speed.

So your motor is designed for a certain speed at 24v. Other motors, faster or slower winding, would go faster or slower at 24v. Your motor looks "normal" that is the speed you are getting at 24v is typical for a middle speed winding. So you don't have the "slow" winding. The same motor is often run on 36v, and should reach about 33 kph with 15 amps of 36v.

In the Mac motors I just suggested, you get to pick your winding. So you could choose 36v, and then choose a motor that ran from 15 mph to 30 mph on that voltage. For the higher power motor, you would need to upgrade the battery as well. The wattage your battery is capable would not go much more than you do now. To go 20 mph, simply takes a certain wattage. Your battery is not designed for that.

 

[999zip999]

I know some chinese ebikes made for europe have a single jump wire that can be disconected, or connected for euro speed. I ones I seen are a white wire with a black connector. Maybe ?

 

[tobsie]

Ok now I understand. But in the Netherlands our bikes are on purpose limited to 25km/h because of law. I feel the motor shot down when I get above the 25km/h speed and it has enough power left. So I mean this speed limit, not the physical limit because of voltage and ampere.

 

[999zip999]

Some controllers have a speed limit. And motors have a sarturation limit due to there winding at a given voltage and amp combo. Frock that euro law and see if this jump wire that runs in and out of the controller is there and unplug it. Just let those nice euro cops find it out. Just ghost peddle like mad when you see the man.
Can I take my 84v at 27amps 2100watts to your flat lands with a 200 watt sticker ?