Ok im new here. a friend of mine led me to this site. even though i think he is cheating using a motor to keep up with me. i am hpv only but i do think that there is an application in witch i would bennifit from a little extra power when towing my canoe or kayak with my http://www.bicycletrailers.com/PaddleBoy-PB-Flyer-Canoe--Kayak-bike-trailer.pro are there any plans to make this a push trailer
electric pb flyer
- Thread starter reggie151
- Start date
dogman dan
1 PW
Perfect for taking the windsurfer to the Hilton. Or if in LA to Cabrillo! Very cool.
Edit, I thought they meant Pacific Beach(San Diego) when they called it a PB flyer. looks like it's built a bit light to make it into a push trailer. But you could just rip their design, and make it out of stronger stuff, with drive wheels and battery box. Easier to just put a motor on a cheap bike.
Edit, I thought they meant Pacific Beach(San Diego) when they called it a PB flyer. looks like it's built a bit light to make it into a push trailer. But you could just rip their design, and make it out of stronger stuff, with drive wheels and battery box. Easier to just put a motor on a cheap bike.
LI-ghtcycle
10 MW
Let me warn you, cheating is addictive! 
I first got into E-Bikes helping my Dad build something for him to ride after a bicycle accident left him with much less ability to ride at all, and then I got a decent Nishiki MTB and realized I was faster than he was with a cheap bike with a motor.
Then I started thinking "I'll just get a light one for going up hills" we have a pretty long big hill here in Oregon City. But then I started enjoying doubling my speed up-hill and I was hooked!
I still get a great work-out and get where ever I am going sweaty because I just love pushing that top speed. The only difference is I have a much longer comfortable range, and going up and down the hill (it's almost 3 miles long varying from 3 - 7% grade) 2-3 times a day wasn't seeming impossible anymore.
My poor car has suffered though, I haven't driven it in months, and since I gotta support my E-Bike battery habit, getting the car running right has become a secondary objective.
Back to the subject, he he I think you would find a design of a push trailer someone has built here adaptable to your purpose, there are several ways to accomplish the task at hand, and I agree with DM, use one of your existing bikes and put a geared hub motor if your wanting light with more of a pedal assist, or if you want the ultimate in ease of use, a DD (direct drive) motor with a 48 volt 15AH+ battery since your hauling a trailer.
Just remember, hills are the biggest controlling factor, if you have any major hills to take on while using your trailer, don't go with the bare minimum or you'll just end up with a bike that was just a couple hundred less to build but over-heats, kills batteries quicker or worse.
Edit: I forgot to mention, your doing this to haul what ... 80+ pounds of canoe & gear? I wouldn't convert anything less a bike with decent disc breaks, even if your not going to plan on no more than 15 - 20 MPH, with all that extra weight your going to need them, not to mention your going to be stopping a bike that is heavy (average another 30-50 lbs of E-Bike stuff) by it's self.
I first got into E-Bikes helping my Dad build something for him to ride after a bicycle accident left him with much less ability to ride at all, and then I got a decent Nishiki MTB and realized I was faster than he was with a cheap bike with a motor.
Then I started thinking "I'll just get a light one for going up hills" we have a pretty long big hill here in Oregon City. But then I started enjoying doubling my speed up-hill and I was hooked!
I still get a great work-out and get where ever I am going sweaty because I just love pushing that top speed. The only difference is I have a much longer comfortable range, and going up and down the hill (it's almost 3 miles long varying from 3 - 7% grade) 2-3 times a day wasn't seeming impossible anymore.
My poor car has suffered though, I haven't driven it in months, and since I gotta support my E-Bike battery habit, getting the car running right has become a secondary objective.
Back to the subject, he he I think you would find a design of a push trailer someone has built here adaptable to your purpose, there are several ways to accomplish the task at hand, and I agree with DM, use one of your existing bikes and put a geared hub motor if your wanting light with more of a pedal assist, or if you want the ultimate in ease of use, a DD (direct drive) motor with a 48 volt 15AH+ battery since your hauling a trailer.
Just remember, hills are the biggest controlling factor, if you have any major hills to take on while using your trailer, don't go with the bare minimum or you'll just end up with a bike that was just a couple hundred less to build but over-heats, kills batteries quicker or worse.
Edit: I forgot to mention, your doing this to haul what ... 80+ pounds of canoe & gear? I wouldn't convert anything less a bike with decent disc breaks, even if your not going to plan on no more than 15 - 20 MPH, with all that extra weight your going to need them, not to mention your going to be stopping a bike that is heavy (average another 30-50 lbs of E-Bike stuff) by it's self.
AussieJester
1 TW
reggie151 said:
So it would be ok if your friend was riding a motorcycle or driving a car? People here aren't all about the fitness ALOT here use their e-bikes
for daily transport to work as a replacement to their car and don't want to arrive sweaty and smelly at their job. E-bikes are more cost effective than pedal power alone bet you didn't consider that did you, cost you more in food to produce less power than a charged battery does!... cost to charge packs...under 12 cents. People that wouldn't consider riding their bikes great distances no can with electric assist, this leaves their car at home saving them alot of $$$ Yet they are constituently up against people with your mentality who quite frankly just show their complete ignorance coming out with the pathetic "cheating" line, Who the hell are they cheating against?!?! YOU coz they wont don Lycra outfit and shave their legs?.They are out on the bike getting some exercise, not using their car and enjoying bicycling, would be that little more pleasurable without the self proclaimed elitist bagging them for it.
Now, to help you out some if you can hack being called a "cheater"
For your application the Kepler friction drive would be perfect, bolts onto your seat post removable in minutes. Has been mentioned this could also be good for your pro-cyclists 'recovery days' after a bing race to give the legs a bit of a rest but still get you out on the bike... Search for "advanced Friction Drive" Welcome to the forum.
KiM
wow sorry to offend you. first of all i dont race. and i dont own a car my bike is my transportation. we ride rail trails and he decided to get a motor for his trike. when i say hes cheating im giving him a hard time so relax i didnt mean to offend. and thanx for the info it sounds like something that might be what im looking for.
AussieJester
1 TW
reggie151 said:
Unfortunately still a little ways out from purchase but not too far.
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=16550&hilit=advanced+friction+drive
Kepler has pictured the drive unit bolted to 4-5 different style bikes, something that could
be popped in the back pack for the ride out on the trails and used when knackered on the way back perhaps
and/or downhill without drive unit, then for the run back up the trail you can quickly bolt it on.
Has many uses is very light and sturdy unit i think it will be very popular.
KiM
LI-ghtcycle
10 MW
Don't mind AJ, he's just a bit of an attack dog don't worry he doesn't bite ... we he doesn't bite OFF too much.
Normally he just has us Hub motor guys to chew on, now he has an honest to goodness pedal bike rider!
I bet secretly he's actually glad to have someone else to chew on to get the "frock motor" taste out of his mouth! :wink: (all in good fun KiM )
Just don't try to convert this one into the RC motor cult!
I almost have him buying a hub motor ... I can FELL It! (Come to the dark side, we have motors!)
Normally he just has us Hub motor guys to chew on, now he has an honest to goodness pedal bike rider!
I bet secretly he's actually glad to have someone else to chew on to get the "frock motor" taste out of his mouth! :wink: (all in good fun KiM
)Just don't try to convert this one into the RC motor cult!
I almost have him buying a hub motor ... I can FELL It!
(Come to the dark side, we have motors!)
AussieJester
1 TW
LI-ghtcycle said:Don't mind AJ, he's just a bit of an attack dog don't worry he doesn't bite ... we he doesn't bite OFF too much.
Normally he just has us Hub motor guys to chew on, now he has an honest to goodness pedal bike rider!
I bet secretly he's actually glad to have someone else to chew on to get the "frock motor" taste out of his mouth! :wink: (all in good fun KiM
Just don't try to convert this one into the RC motor cult!
I almost have him buying a hub motor ... I can FELL It!
HAHAHA ...well...if he goes with a Kepler drive i have bad news for you LI-ghtcycle...they is rc motors
::spits the taste of frock motor from mouth ::: there is a refreshing 'tang' to these 'pedal bike riders'
isn't there :lol:
KiM
dogman dan
1 PW
Heh Heh, I prouldy call mysef a cheater when I talk to "real" bikers. It breaks the ice, saying it what they are thinking. Then I can tell em how I got back to pedaling after 20 years in cars and trucks by "cheating", and lost weight, improved my health, etc etc etc. If I get as far as getting them to try the bike, they always come back with the comment that the bike is real heavy, but they are always grinning too.
Once in a great while I'll be traveling slower than usual and will hear a comment or laugh. That's when the torture begins, as the cheater whizzes by them later while whistling a merry tune.
Back on topic, if you have several bikes, great! then you won't have to put a motor on a cheapie. Nothing wrong with a stable of bikes, my garage has one road bike and two MTB's for pedaling, and usually at least 3 motorized ones. The right tool for the job I always say so I have a variety of both kinds of bikes. Hauling a canoe trailer would be a job for the motored bike. It won't take much motor if it's flat, but hills can take a lot of motor, and may need gearing to get up if really steep with a trailer. But even a small gearmotor can make a huge difference just assisting you climb at the same speed. Many new ebikers end up dissapointed with performance of hub motors on hills. One horsepower is a lot, but still won't have you flying up hills. The big difference for me is I can climb a much longer hill with a motor. Without motor, I really don't like a hill longer than 1/2 mile.
Once in a great while I'll be traveling slower than usual and will hear a comment or laugh. That's when the torture begins, as the cheater whizzes by them later while whistling a merry tune.
Back on topic, if you have several bikes, great! then you won't have to put a motor on a cheapie. Nothing wrong with a stable of bikes, my garage has one road bike and two MTB's for pedaling, and usually at least 3 motorized ones. The right tool for the job I always say so I have a variety of both kinds of bikes. Hauling a canoe trailer would be a job for the motored bike. It won't take much motor if it's flat, but hills can take a lot of motor, and may need gearing to get up if really steep with a trailer. But even a small gearmotor can make a huge difference just assisting you climb at the same speed. Many new ebikers end up dissapointed with performance of hub motors on hills. One horsepower is a lot, but still won't have you flying up hills. The big difference for me is I can climb a much longer hill with a motor. Without motor, I really don't like a hill longer than 1/2 mile.
Well guess that gives me the basics. thanx. looks like im looking for a hub motor. im unsuer if it should be front or rear. i do have a pretty large hill between me and the river probly 2m about 60 0/0 grade witch i dont mind peddling just need help with extra 100 -120 lbs of boat and gear bike bout 30lbs me 230lbs trailer 20lbs how big of a kit do i need? how should i gear it? can i charge with solor or something? for when im camping etc.
John in CR
100 TW
Cheating?
What do you think costs more, food or electricity per unit of energy content? It's not even close, and electric beats out even a pure peanut butter and jelly sandwich diet. That's before considering the human body is about 30% efficient in the conversion of food to work output vs an ebike at 70% or more. Electric bikes are the most efficient form of transportation known to man, period.
Ebikes have pedals, so just get the right gearing and motor power and you can pedal to your heart's content.
Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against pedalists, but you've taken the first step, so very soon you'll discover how much more useful an ebike is.
I'd like to make one suggestion though. Instead of a push trailer, consider a cargo bike and making it electric. Then you've got passenger and/or cargo room with the flexibility pulling a trailer too. That will prove to be a far more useful and flexible vehicle to add to your stable.
What will be missing is the competitive part of cycling. ie With a pedal only bike It is a competition any time there's another bike on the road. I think that's where this "cheating" thing comes from. You'll have to get back on your pedal only for the competitive aspect, though a number of our members do have some fun at the expense of pedalists. For the record I would never mess with you guys. That's like a competition between a motorcycle and a bike.
As your attitude changes, please do spread the word to your pedalist friends. I'm sure most of them have cars they use on almost a daily basis. I'm a fat guy with a family of 5, and my ebike has replaced the use of the family car by at least 90%. We still need one for certain things, but it sits parked for weeks at a time. You'll really expand your radius of the limits that go on in your head now, "shit, I had a long day and really don't feel like riding that far.
One last thing, and it's a point that just doesn't come across in words, but ebikes are actually really fun to ride, and the high powered ones can be amusement park ride type fun. I never would have thought it, and I always had a bike from age 5 through college, but I honestly can't remember them being as fun as my ebikes, other than related to the competitive nature of cycling.
I've got a ton of respect for you guys, but it really needs to go both ways. We're not cheaters, because we're not competing against you. That would be no contest in all respects other than food energy burned. There's enough starving people in the world.
John
What do you think costs more, food or electricity per unit of energy content? It's not even close, and electric beats out even a pure peanut butter and jelly sandwich diet. That's before considering the human body is about 30% efficient in the conversion of food to work output vs an ebike at 70% or more. Electric bikes are the most efficient form of transportation known to man, period.
Ebikes have pedals, so just get the right gearing and motor power and you can pedal to your heart's content.
Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against pedalists, but you've taken the first step, so very soon you'll discover how much more useful an ebike is.
I'd like to make one suggestion though. Instead of a push trailer, consider a cargo bike and making it electric. Then you've got passenger and/or cargo room with the flexibility pulling a trailer too. That will prove to be a far more useful and flexible vehicle to add to your stable.
What will be missing is the competitive part of cycling. ie With a pedal only bike It is a competition any time there's another bike on the road. I think that's where this "cheating" thing comes from. You'll have to get back on your pedal only for the competitive aspect, though a number of our members do have some fun at the expense of pedalists. For the record I would never mess with you guys. That's like a competition between a motorcycle and a bike.
As your attitude changes, please do spread the word to your pedalist friends. I'm sure most of them have cars they use on almost a daily basis. I'm a fat guy with a family of 5, and my ebike has replaced the use of the family car by at least 90%. We still need one for certain things, but it sits parked for weeks at a time. You'll really expand your radius of the limits that go on in your head now, "shit, I had a long day and really don't feel like riding that far.
One last thing, and it's a point that just doesn't come across in words, but ebikes are actually really fun to ride, and the high powered ones can be amusement park ride type fun. I never would have thought it, and I always had a bike from age 5 through college, but I honestly can't remember them being as fun as my ebikes, other than related to the competitive nature of cycling.
I've got a ton of respect for you guys, but it really needs to go both ways. We're not cheaters, because we're not competing against you. That would be no contest in all respects other than food energy burned. There's enough starving people in the world.
John
thanx johni dont think you guy are all cheaters. just giving the one guy i ride with a ribbing im on weight watchers so we do this forexercise and it gives me the chance to tease him. i dont own a car either. so bicycling is my comute as well. there are definatly different applications and i respect any one who dosent cart thier fat ass around in a car. thanx i really appericate all the commentary. keep it comming
AussieJester
1 TW
reggie151 said:
I apologise for the 'tone' in my first post to you too just gets up alot of people here being
called cheaters, i am glad you see the bigger picture, if/when you get a e-bike be warned
they are HIGHLY addictive haha...all the best and do keep an eye on the kepler drive i suggested
i think this would be absolutely perfect for your application.
KiM
vanilla ice
1 MW
E really helps when hauling things. I figure when I'm riding with 100 to 150 pounds in tow, by the end of the trip it feels like a I was riding solo with zero cargo. Even with my low power setup. Its terrific for that. I pedal just as hard as a pedal solo bike, get there just as fast as one. Only difference is the 150 pounds gets to go along also.
thats awsome thats jst what im looking for. what is your set up? how powerful how long can you go? how steap of a hill? how much $$$? i have so many questions. i have an e-scooter 250w motor will this help me? it sure didnt seem to be very powerful but could it be geared up or something
vanilla ice
1 MW
Mine is not a kayak tower, but it also goes to the shore. It runs 800W in through a brushed hub. Power is more like a brushless at 500W maximum, but only sees max uphill. We usually don't go more than 15 miles so a small lipo pack does it. I probably have $500 in to it including the bike.
Before the E, I did the same trips non-assist with the heavy trailer and it was no fun. Taxing and takes too long.. my ave speed was like cut in half. Also sucks if you're riding with others and they have to slow for you. Not a problem anymore! And Instead of trying to spread out the weight, with assist you can just take everyone's stuff.
Ditto what Li said about disc brakes. I have rim brakes and its not so great loaded down.
250W motor could work, depends on what your expectations are. It would sure beat having zero assist!
Before the E, I did the same trips non-assist with the heavy trailer and it was no fun. Taxing and takes too long.. my ave speed was like cut in half. Also sucks if you're riding with others and they have to slow for you. Not a problem anymore! And Instead of trying to spread out the weight, with assist you can just take everyone's stuff.
Ditto what Li said about disc brakes. I have rim brakes and its not so great loaded down.
250W motor could work, depends on what your expectations are. It would sure beat having zero assist!
zap
100 W
Here's a good collection of push trailers for you reggie.
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=9855&hilit=push
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=9855&hilit=push
thanx i appriciate all the info im nolonger doing a push trailer. i already have the pb flyer trailer ind its a good trailer but not strong enough to stand up to the torq of a moter so im going to do my extra bike with a hub motor not sure if it will be front or rear brobly ffront so it can be swished out easy but rear would bite the ground better under my weight. tell me what is better. also got to figure out a trailer brake unfortunatly the bike i have for this setup has v breaks. thanx keep the info coming
