electric superkart racing

[sk8norcal]

google translate,

The test drive of an electric super kart and four Sunrider was kicked off the First Electro League. The project is part of Techno Challenge, an initiative from Corus to young people interested in technology.
Kennemer College is the first school started with a number of Sunrider kits. These were assembled by students at school. The next time more teams follow different schools of students who will build their own Sunrider. Also, the electric super karts for this to compete in various races and challenges.

Sunrider Cycles is proud partner of this project and handles the delivery of the Sunirder and electric conversion kits for the Super Kart.

[youtube]ximtKpGHPzo[/youtube]

 

[Hillhater]

Well,
that kart is going to have to improve a hell of a lot if it intends to compete.
so what is new here ???...
Gravitron (UK) built an electric kart 10 years ago that would outrun a Yamaha R1 ( 160mph)
http://www.futureenergies.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=220
and there has been a electric kart race series in Europe for 10+ yrs

 

[sk8norcal]

do you have a link for the electric kart race series ?
I don't see anything on youtube....

 

[Hillhater]

do you have a link for the electric kart race series.?

http://www.futureenergies.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=news&file=article&sid=317

...EVN Cup, the grand finale in the Solar and Electric Cup, Europe’s annual alternative energy series. The series offers the opportunity for alternative fuelled vehicles to race in official FIA races. Classes include motorbikes, prototype road cars, production cars and karts....
....EVN is the largest Electricity supplier in North Austria and is the main sponsor of the event. It is organised by the OAMTC, Austria’s equivalent to the UK’s RAC, with the racing organised, scrutineered and officiated by the FIA.......

 

[x88x]

I really hope that kart wasn't going all out or that's just sad...and wtf are those big bulbous things at the end? Don't get me wrong, it's great to see EVs get more press, but...come on, crap like that is why nobody takes EVs seriously as performance vehicles. "Yes, we make big electric superkart. See it go 10mph? Impressive, no?" :facepalm:

 

[vanilla ice]

I didn't watch the vid yet, but the real 250cc two stroke superkarts are quick enough to hold outright track records at some of the shorter twisty circuits around the world.. I do think karts are one of the better places to start with an electric performance vehicle just because of the low weight. You could run a TT "one lap special" super kart where range and charge time are non-issues. In that very specific use you might not be an underdog to the ice guys. It'd be nice to see an EV as outright track record holder on a well known circuit! That would send a message.

 

[sk8norcal]

do you have a link for the electric kart race series.?

http://www.futureenergies.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=news&file=article&sid=317

...EVN Cup, the grand finale in the Solar and Electric Cup, Europe’s annual alternative energy series. The series offers the opportunity for alternative fuelled vehicles to race in official FIA races. Classes include motorbikes, prototype road cars, production cars and karts....
....EVN is the largest Electricity supplier in North Austria and is the main sponsor of the event. It is organised by the OAMTC, Austria’s equivalent to the UK’s RAC, with the racing organised, scrutineered and officiated by the FIA.......

that link is 2001...
is it still around?
no vids?


check these guys...
http://www.e-kart.fr/2009/

E-Kart is an association of French students developping electric gokarts. They met in Vierzon to compete.

[youtube]RFCxbwBS-JU[/youtube]

 

[sk8norcal]

I really hope that kart wasn't going all out or that's just sad...and wtf are those big bulbous things at the end? Don't get me wrong, it's great to see EVs get more press, but...come on, crap like that is why nobody takes EVs seriously as performance vehicles. "Yes, we make big electric superkart. See it go 10mph? Impressive, no?" :facepalm:

I think its for young kids..

 

[Hillhater]

that link is 2001...
is it still around?
no vids?

The competition is a multi event series , held every year. I posted the '01 report to indicate how long Ekarts have been competing.
There are many Ekart video's on youtube, but Gravitron (from the first link) are probably the most well developed "race" kart.

You could run a TT "one lap special" super kart where range and charge time are non-issues. In that very specific use you might not be an underdog to the ice guys.

like this ?.. http://www.futureenergies.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=220
BUT.... that lap record is for "Pro-karts" ..which are a 13 hp class !!

A decent superkart is up there at 90bhp ( 65+ Kw) and weighs about 400lbs..of which only 50lbs or so is the motor (250 2 stroke).
Weight is king with karts, so unless you can find a 60Kw motor and battery to last 10 mins all up for 50lbs.... they you wont compete.
Drive trains are available ( eg:-Gravitron), but a battery to power it for 10 mins at that power is probably still 100lbs of the best Lipo.

 

[sk8norcal]

The competition is a multi event series , held every year. I posted the '01 report to indicate how long Ekarts have been competing.
There are many Ekart video's on youtube, but Gravitron (from the first link) are probably the most well developed "race" kart.

I want to see videos of "racing" karts..

if this event happens every year, there should be some vids on youtube..

 

[sk8norcal]

found some info here,

http://www.kartelec.com/f/en_comp.htm

Nowadays, very few competitions are organised in Europe for electric gokarts. The FIA organise a "world" championship for vehicules with alternative propulsion.

video here for the FIA Alternative Energies cup:
http://www.kartelec.com/f/comp/en_fia.htm

[youtube]FdFKoMrEcKY[/youtube]


some info on the gravitron
http://www.kartelec.com/f/comp/en_gravitron.htm

On Tuesday 24th of July 2001, Gravitron tested on the runway of Kemble Airport (Gloucestershire, England) a specialy designed gokart built to beat speed world record for an electrical vehicule under 500kg. (1102lb)

During that practice cession, the gokart reached a speed of 135 mph or approximatively 215 km/h!

The gokart weights approximatively 250 kg with a pilot of 60 kg. It is propulsed by two Gravitron LAAA4002 engines and two controllers HE DATA 1000. The voltage is 60V and the power is during practice of 100 cv. The energy is storaged in 10 Optima batteries

 

[vanilla ice]

A decent superkart is up there at 90bhp ( 65+ Kw) and weighs about 400lbs..of which only 50lbs or so is the motor (250 2 stroke).
Weight is king with karts, so unless you can find a 60Kw motor and battery to last 10 mins all up for 50lbs.... they you wont compete.
Drive trains are available ( eg:-Gravitron), but a battery to power it for 10 mins at that power is probably still 100lbs of the best Lipo.

Exactly right, that is why if you read what I typed, I said one lap special.. like a qualifying setup in the racing world. There is something called 'time attack' that while not popular where I am, is growing. I think its a great way to have fun competing on a budget. Kind of like autocross but on a real circuit. I think this is a good fit for EVs given battery limitations.. you gotta start somewhere. I'd try to build an e-superkart if I had the money! Huge bragging rights if you actually pull off a lap record, and IMO an achievable goal since you are bringing a knife to a knife fight.. by not trying to run a 10 or 20 minute sprint race.

 

[Arlo1]

As we get controlers sorted out for collussos and some of the other giant out runners you will see some major kart action start up im already shoping for racing rolling kart chassis for this! Remember electric motors build more torque at lower rpm. So if you have a 20 hp motor reving 1000 rpm its ~100 ft/lbs torque where as a two stroke ice is ~ 5 ftlbs at 1000 rpm!

 

[Hillhater]

so, say you only need 30kw elec drive to match the 60+ Kw ICE.
how much battery do you need to feed that 30kw even for a few mins ? ( at least 5 mins or you dont even warm the tires up !)
Can you get that battery and drive package completely installed at less than 50lb weight to be competitive. ???
Maybe the "Autocross" events (time trials in parking lots) would be a better option.

 

[x88x]

Well, you could always pre-warm the tires like they do in F1. For weight, I'm not sure you could get quite to 50lbs, but you could get pretty close.

Using your estimate of a 30kW motor, let's say at 150V (I think that sounds reasonable..feel free to correct me if it's not), that would mean 200A at max voltage. If you only need it to go for, say, 4-5 minutes, 16 of these in a 4S4P config for a 148V 20Ah 46lb pack would let you go maybe about that long, maybe a bit less, allowing for higher current draw on acceleration and lower current draw on braking..20Ah is admittedly just assuming a solid pull of 200A for 6 minutes, but you could add 5Ah sections for ~10lb each. The motor and controller would obviously push well over 50, but I would be curious to see if the difference in torque would be enough to make up the difference (see Top Gear's race between the Lotus Elise and the Tesla Roadster).

 

[Hillhater]

(see Top Gear's race between the Lotus Elise and the Tesla Roadster).

You mean where the Tesla dies half way round the track ? .. :wink:

 

[x88x]

(see Top Gear's race between the Lotus Elise and the Tesla Roadster).

You mean where the Tesla dies half way round the track ? .. :wink:

Yes, yes, but the first part...and I think we both know why the Tesla died.

 

[Arlo1]

Well, you could always pre-warm the tires like they do in F1. For weight, I'm not sure you could get quite to 50lbs, but you could get pretty close.

Using your estimate of a 30kW motor, let's say at 150V (I think that sounds reasonable..feel free to correct me if it's not), that would mean 200A at max voltage. If you only need it to go for, say, 4-5 minutes, 16 of these in a 4S4P config for a 148V 20Ah 46lb pack would let you go maybe about that long, maybe a bit less, allowing for higher current draw on acceleration and lower current draw on braking..20Ah is admittedly just assuming a solid pull of 200A for 6 minutes, but you could add 5Ah sections for ~10lb each. The motor and controller would obviously push well over 50, but I would be curious to see if the difference in torque would be enough to make up the difference (see Top Gear's race between the Lotus Elise and the Tesla Roadster).

If you run 16 of them 4 in series and 4 parellel you would have 40s4p pack in total weighing 45.7 lbs you would charge to 168.8v and be on your way to charge at 148v! Looks pretty cool and your pack is 2960 watt hours! You always have to look at the watt hours because a W/H per km figure is how to size a pack Most performance bicycles are 40-80 W/H per km
so a kart sliding the wheels will be more! Probably 100-180 wh/km so 16 km would be a normal limit even with regen!
Part of it will depend on system efficiency which is why I mention brushless motors. If you ever want an example of where the future is look at RC cars! 10 years ago the nitro dominated because brushed motors were to slow no mater how great they were built! Now look at them Brushless is taking over to the point nitro has no chance!

 

[Arlo1]

I must admit the advances in battery techknoladgy has helped a lot as well but thats just more evidence that my karts will kick ass!

 

[jmygann]

Looks like 48 volts to me ? Is that correct ?


what motors are they using ?

 

[Hillhater]

If you run 16 of them 4 in series and 4 parellel you would have 40s4p pack in total weighing 45.7 lbs ....
.... and your pack is 2960 watt hours!
... Most performance bicycles are 40-80 W/H per km
... a kart sliding the wheels will be more! Probably 100-180 wh/km so 16 km would be a normal limit even with regen!..!

A competitive race kart (400+lbs, ..0 to 60 in 3 secs, ... 150mph..) doesnt slide the wheels, and is going to suck more than 180 wh/km !!
You will need to use most of that 30Kw motor most of the time. (karts run WOT for 80%+ track time)
I would guess more like 500-1000wh/km !!...so probably less than 5km range..
... but a fun 5 km ! :lol:

 

[Arlo1]

If you run 16 of them 4 in series and 4 parellel you would have 40s4p pack in total weighing 45.7 lbs ....
.... and your pack is 2960 watt hours!
... Most performance bicycles are 40-80 W/H per km
... a kart sliding the wheels will be more! Probably 100-180 wh/km so 16 km would be a normal limit even with regen!..!

A competitive race kart (400+lbs, ..0 to 60 in 3 secs, ... 150mph..) doesnt slide the wheels, and is going to suck more than 180 wh/km !!
You will need to use most of that 30Kw motor most of the time. (karts run WOT for 80%+ track time)
I would guess more like 500-1000wh/km !!...so probably less than 5km range..
... but a fun 5 km ! :lol:

All fast karts slide in the corners as you use your brakes going in and as you power coming out! The other way to calculate it is from a car like the tesla and see its wh/km on the streets and the track!

 

[vanilla ice]

Well I agree AX is much better suited, but the fame and glory aren't there like a circuit record.. An electric A-mod type car snagging FTD would be nice and all, but even kart track outright lap records would be awesome bragging rights for E guys. 5km should be plenty for that! Regular circuit, even better. "An electric did the fastest lap EVER done in history here." 8)

Have your heavy warm up pack to get the tires and your brain up to temp, pit in to swap to a qualifying pack.. Do your out lap to get up to speed across the line, then the one hot lap. Anyway didn't mean to go OT, but the thread title threw me.