Fat Bike ebike "Picker Style"

[Ch00paKabrA]

HI all. Back when the Storm ebike was a big controversy, I wondered if a fat bike ebike could truly be built for around $700.00 ($499.00 + $198.00 for shipping as advertised).

Additionally, Many people in my area throw away older road bikes and kids BMX bikes and I have rescued quite a few and sold them hence the "picker" in the title.

To date, from the bikes that I have pulled out of the trash and sold, I have accumulated $628.00 tucked away in a jar. This is the money that I will be using to build my ebike.

In Walmart a few days ago, there was a green Beast with some scrapes and scuffs in the paint for $199.00. When I asked for a discount, the manager initially would only come down to $180.00. Long story short, I was able to walk (ride?) out with the bike for $150.00 plus tax: $161.57.

Last week, in the for sale section a member was selling a 201 rpm Q100H rear hub motor brand new in box with an additional longer waterproof 9 pin cable. We struck a deal for $110.00 and it has already arrived.

I also have a cheap chinese 36v 250w controller that I paid $18.00 for.

Lastly, I purchased 40 LG 18650 cells from Tumich in his for sale thread which cost $145.00 after shipping.

I still need spokes, throttle, PAS, BMS, and an upgrade to the rear coaster brake but this seems like it is doable with a remaining available balance of $193.43

Any suggestions would be gladly accepted bearing in mind that this is a tight tight tight budget build. This is not a bike that Spinning Magnets will be wasting his time writing about in his blog but may serve to show that an affordable ebike can be built.

here is the Donor bike:



Thanks for looking.

 

[nutnspecial]

Awesome man, 'picker style'!

I have an unused extra em3 full twist throttle I can mail ya? I'm pretty sure they included it for free, and mailing one state away can't be bad so it's yours if you want it.

 

[Ch00paKabrA]

Thanks NutSpecial. That is a very kind offer. I recently bought another kit from another member who was here in NJ. It is an EM3EV 7T MAC kit and it had 2 throttles included. If they don't work then I may very well take you up on that offer. It also came with the ebrake levers but I need to figure something out for the disc bracket up front.

I was talking to my neighbor about it and he is a carpenter who makes custom cabinets. He offered to make a wooden triangle box and wooden fenders for it. So it may be a "woody" ebike. Sometimes things said in the moment don't come to fruition so we'll see if he comes through.

 

[dogman dan]

Sure, anybody can build one frugal bike, if the parts can be sourced cheap.

Imagine though, you shipped thousands, and 20% have some minor defect. Even just shit like a pedal came unscrewed creates a phone call that eats $20 of time.

 

[Ch00paKabrA]

Very true dogman dan and a good point as well. The Storm Reference was really just an aside. I really wanted to see if there was enough stuff thrown away that I could pick and come up with enough money to build one on my own. Also, look at it this way; a lot of folks who don't have any experience with ebikes may think that in order to be good, they have to cost a bundle. That may be true. I just wanted to find out on my own.

With a little wheeling and dealing, I am hopeful that it will be something worthwhile. If not, well, I am not out any great deal of $$$.

I had some 13g spokes laying around that were the right length for radial lacing. I know normally, it is OK to radial lace a front wheel but since this is under power (however small that power may be) I don't think it is a good idea so I am looking into another solution. I radial laced it to get it sitting right side up but that is not the final configuration. I also had 3 bmx bike downstairs that I intend to make 2 sellable bikes from and one had a very wide (for a kid's bike) handle bar that was a bit higher rise than the stock bar that came with the beast so that is on there now.

Additionally, the small controller fits nicely between the rails under the seat. It looks like with a little tinkering, I might be able to mount it out of sight.

I am working on the battery tonight so it may be somewhat mobile by tomorrow or sometime this weekend. The only thing that really worries me is the brakes.

 

[nutnspecial]

I love the show 'pickers' = & sometimes I scream at my tv.

The build itself is picker style bcause of the bargaining etc. And why wouldn't a budget 'picker' build be noteworthy?

Money makes the world go round, and several local budget riders are now interested in ebikes since they've seen these 3phase motors and batteries in action on mine. (they understand that my bike in particular is not status quo) Let them have a little extra fun and convenience!

Choop, you know I just missed that 7t mac! (I'm thinkin it was one classified right around the east coast here), pm'ed him when my first try failed with my bike lol, but you got to it first! Mac's do seem great.

Looking forward to the build progression; I wouldn't go that way, lol, but the woodwork mentioned could be a showpiece.

 

[Ch00paKabrA]

Choop, you know I just missed that 7t mac! (I'm thinkin it was one classified right around the east coast here), pm'ed him when my first try failed with my bike lol, but you got to it first! Mac's do seem great.

Looking forward to the build progression; I wouldn't go that way, lol, but the woodwork mentioned could be a showpiece.

The MAC 7T was a smokin' deal. The motor turned out to be the upgraded motor, the kit came with literally everything needed; ebike brake levers, torque arm, 3077 12 fet programable controller, a LiFePO4 battery and a bunch of other stuff that I have not yet inventoried for $250.00. That would have been a nice set up for this bike and it would have been if the motor was a more torque higher turn motor.

I finished the battery last night with only one small sparky incident. I had 20 Samsung 29E cells and 80 LG 2.8ah cells to choose from so I did a 4p 10s with 2 lg and 2 samsung in each parallel group so I hope mixing the 2 cell types will be fine.

It also turns out that the spokes from an old 24" schwinn front wheel that I found in the trash 2 years ago are actually a perfect fit for a 2 cross pattern. they would be just a bit too long for a regular 26 inch wheel but since you need to run the spokes to the opposite side of the rim on a fat bike rim, they fit. they do look a bit dingy though.

This thing may actually be working this week end.

 

[dogman dan]

Definitely good picking! Well done. Especially with the bike itself. 8) Finding stuff here, but at china prices is not always easy.

 

[Chalo]

Aw, man... I thought by "Picker Style" you meant with a small diameter wheel in the front, like the Schwinn Cotton Picker and Pea Picker:

A fatbike built this way, with a 26 x 4" tire in back and a 20 x 3" in front would be, um, something.

 

[Ch00paKabrA]

Interstingly Chalo, There were a load of garage sales around town today and one fellow had a bunch of bike and one of was very similar to the picture you posted. I didn't get it though, he was real proud of it and wanted $250 for the rust bucket.

I did take it for it's maiden voyage earlier today. I still haven't finished getting the BMS onto the battery but I used the LiFePO4 that was included with the MAC 7T kit in a back pack and true to the shittiness of a Walmart bike. The rear coaster brake mounting strap broke and left me "Flintstoning" it home. After a while it did jam itself against the seat stay and I kind of had brakes. This just reinforces that I have to get another brake on there - it will most likely be a disc on the front since the hub motor is drilled for a rotor.



Other than that, I have a new favorite bike. I gotta make a stronger bracket for the coaster brake. I think it was probably my fault though. I don't think the strap was made to handle braking from 20 mph - more like 8

The Battery will be done tomorrow and it fits very neatly in a small under seat bag that I got in a box of stuff I bought at a garage sale for $5.00.

All in so far and I am still quite a ways under the $628.00 budget I set for this bike at $467.00.

I'll post up a picture when the battery is on it.

 

[docnjoj]

Lucky brake (yes pun) but it is not funny. That is the problem with coaster brakes and it could have been a kid blowing down a hill at 20 mph. Brakes are not supposed to fail, even on low-priced Walbikes..
otherDoc

 

[Ch00paKabrA]

Lucky brake (yes pun) but it is not funny. That is the problem with coaster brakes and it could have been a kid blowing down a hill at 20 mph. Brakes are not supposed to fail, even on low-priced Walbikes..
otherDoc

Too true. After I reconnected the coaster brake, the there was a lot of play in the hub - about 1/16 inch. After I tightened it, the rear hub is making an awful grinding sound when coasting that disappears when you pedal.

Rather than screw around with trying to get it fixed under warrantee, I decided to go back to walmart and buy another one and swap out the rear wheels and return it as defective.

The bike looks good and it appears that I will be able to ad a front disc brake and still be under the $500.00 mark. Even though I am having a problem with the coaster brake, I still think this is a successful project. I will get everything sorted out and have a fun sub-500 dollar ebike.

Yesterday, I went for a long ride to see how far I can get on the 4P 10S battery (roughly 11ah) and the bike went 18 miles at full throttle with no pedaling on very flat roads with 10 psi in the tires. There was no wind.

This Morning I went for a fairly long ride and kept it at 8 to 10 mph with light pedaling and after 22 miles, the battery was at 33.6V. I think I can get about 25 miles or so from the battery if I switch to pedelec.

Over all, I am happy with it and I am glad that the summer season is finally here as there were thousands of bikinis at the beach today.

 

[999zip999]

So what front brake ?

 

[markz]

love the horizontal dropouts.

I honestly think human nature is human nature and it doesnt matter what city or town you are in. Humans will throw most slightly damaged things out.
I used to think it was a big city problem, or a richie rich problem. I think its just human nature.

 

[Ch00paKabrA]

here are some pictures of the bike. I ordered a bolt on disc brake bracket for the fork. If it doesn't fit, I will make one.

I loosened up the rear cones a bit and the sound went away but now there is a slight wobble to the rear wheel. It is only slightly noticeable. I will check out another bike to see if they are all like that.







I have a feeling I will be adding another Q100H to the rear and another 60 cells to the battery.

The bike is very fun to ride under power but trying to pedal such a heavy bike with such low tire pressure is enough to get the lactic acid pooling in your legs.

 

[Chalo]

The noise in the rear coaster brake hub is common. It's a product defect, but it's harmless as far as I can tell.

The problem arises when the hub shell isn't hardened enough to do business with the shuttle inside. When the driver (the part with the sprocket attached to it) is forced clockwise by the pedals, it screws itself into the barrel shaped shuttle, wedging the shuttle tightly into a conical bore on the inside of the hub shell. Friction between the shuttle and the hub shell is what allows the pedals to turn the wheel. The harder you pedal, the tighter the wedging force, and the more power can be transmitted through it.

If the hub shell is inadequately hardened, the shuttle, which is serrated, indents the conical surface inside the hub. That makes the serrations on the shuttle buzz as they rub against the indentations in the hub shell when you coast. Unless the indentations are deep enough to cause significant drag, their only effect is the resulting noise (which I find annoying enough that I'd replace the wheel).

 

[Ch00paKabrA]

Thank you Chalo.

Last night I gave serious thought on how I might mount the q100h in the rear of the bike to do away with the coaster brake all together. It would be a bit of an ordeal but I figured out how to do it. One of the reasons that this bike was chosen over the Dolomite or the new Mongoose Hitch is that the rear drop out is 170 instead of 190 mm. That is 20mm that I don't have to figure out how to space.

For the time being, I think I will just enjoy it.

 

[999zip999]

I'm interested in the front disc brake adapter and if it could work on the rear.
But who needs brakes they only slow me down W.O.T.
Is that a 3 1/2 in rim or 4in. ?

 

[nutnspecial]

It looks good!
(lol on getting screwed by a company and pulling a switcharoo)
Is this the most inexpensive fully functional fatbike on here? 250w, correct?
+1 lactic acid- pain is just weakness leaving the body right?

 

[Ch00paKabrA]

the rims are 100mm wide rims on the beast but they are only single wall. Here are the specs on the bike:

2015 Mongoose Beast from Walmart
Q100H 36v 350w motor
Cheap ass aliexpress 36v 250w controller
40 cells from tumich's battery thread in the for sale section (@ $2.89 each) 4P 10S
Throttle only no PAS (yet)

Total: <$500.00

Keep in mind that I got a smoking deal on the motor in the for sale section here. This would probably be a little bit over the $500.00 mark if I bought it new from BMS Battery.

The bike definitely brings a smile to my face every time I ride it.

Sorry but after a 12 hour day I need to rant a bit off topic:

Rant begins:

Today I didn't finish with my work until after dark but I made a shit load of money. The economy must be getting better because many of the people who lost their jobs earlier and started landscaping companies to tide them over are are disappearing. Last week alone I picked up 12 new customers and another 5 so far this week and I only worked one day. The story was the same from most of them; the company that used to do it is no longer doing landscaping. I am inundated with work and I want to keep it small but I may have to hire another person.

Not complaining. This is a good position to be in. I used to just charge $25.00 an hour to do weeding and small jobs. I bill it as "Helping Hand Service". Now I charge $50.00 and people are still booking every available hour! How the hell do you pay someone $50.00 an hour to weed your flower beds???? The thing is that I just don't want to do it but they keep paying the money and I am a bit of a whore so I keep doing the work.

OK, Rant over!

This is how I get when I don't ride my ebike at least once a day. :lol:

edit:

I forgot to address the question about the disc conversion bracket. The bracket is supposed to be good for both front and back but here is the situation; it is made for a 10mm round axle so that it can be rotated to either the fork or the stay. the problem may be that if the flats don't line up perfectly, it may not work as designed. I don't have an answer yest because it is still on a slow boat from China. As soon as I get it, I will post the results.

 

[Chalo]

Front and rear disc brake mounts have about 4mm different lateral spacing, as well as different axle-to-mounting-bolt distances. Front and rear disc hubs have different dropout-to-rotor spacing. They aren't interchangeable

 

[Ch00paKabrA]

Front and rear disc brake mounts have about 4mm different lateral spacing, as well as different axle-to-mounting-bolt distances. Front and rear disc hubs have different dropout-to-rotor spacing. They aren't interchangeable

That is good information. Thank you.

 

[footloose]

Over all, I am happy with it and I am glad that the summer season is finally here as there were thousands of bikinis at the beach today.

Interesting project, and looks like a fun ride. Throwing money at a project is easy answer, but anyone can do it if they have the bucks. Kind of more fun to solve things on a budget.

Here in northern California its been a cold season so far, at the beach you see more parkas than bikinis. Jersey shore sounds pretty good!

 

[Ch00paKabrA]

I added this in the steel bikes thread but since it happened on the Beast, I will memorialize here as well.

Yesterday, the bolt on bracket to convert a fork to accept a disc caliper came but it needed a bit of modification to make it fit. Basically, the slot needed to be widened to accept the wider hub motor axle.

this is the result after the very first attempt to brake at approximately 4 or 5 mph:



ouch! This little $3.00 experiment wound up costing me a rotor, a caliper, the caliper mounting bracket, the cable and cable housing.

Lesson learned

 

[chas58]

Dang! It is good to have brakes!

I assume you have a speed of around 16mph - with the gearing on that bike can you pedal at that speed, or is it full electric only?