First e bike custom build I need your input please

[nelsonk1969]

Hi all after getting totally disappointed with my A2B Alva + I have decided that I want to go with a custom build. I will take my time and do what ever I can
to accomplish this myself however with a Bad back and neck I am sure to call in some favors from my friends.
I am starting of with a fresh canvas a 2015 Giant Roam 1 Xl frame, this is a bike I purchased last week as a spare bike for when my A2B is unusable however I have decided to just chalk that up as a massive financial loss and a learning experience.



http://www.giant-bicycles.com/en-us/bikes/model/roam.1/18749/76171/

I am not sure if I uploaded the picture and or link properly but its not hard to look up on the net if your interested
This bike has 10 gears on the rear wheel and 3 at the crank it has hydraulic disk breaks and finger shifters which I love.
I bought the Xl frame as I am a semi tall guy at 6' 3" I weight about 217 but I am working on getting down to 195- 200 range.
currently the only thing I have done to it is add a Carbon Comfort seat to it.
I am looking for a adjustable stem and riser bars that will get me in the upright or nearly upright position as being bent over in the stock highest position is way to hard for me to ride any length of time especially for my neck.
So far with this type of bike it seems I have limited options but I am open to suggestions except buying a different style bike.
I am pretty positive after my experience with the A2B I do not want an electric hub laced into any wheel as this makes it too hard for me to repair a flat
and will most likely be unbalanced just like my A2B is.
I have been looking at this kit http://em3ev.com/store/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=187
Bafang 48V 750W BBS02 Kit with Battery ( 50V 18.5Ah Triangle Pack & 5A Charger (17.5Ah & 24.8Ah Option)

but I could use some input from people that have installed one and used one.
Are they reliable? easy to get replacement parts for? noisy etc. perhaps you know a bunch of answers that I am not smart enough to ask the right questions.
Please pipe in. is there one place that has better customer service than the other?
I am looking reliability or at least easy and not too expensive to repair all the time.
I am also looking for a kit that when the power is off or dead from breaking - blowing up doesn't act like I am dragging a boat anchor while I am trying to limp it home.
Any and all suggestions would be appreciated I don't mind spending around $1,500 - $2,000 on a good kit. with the battery
Sure like anyone here I would like a setup that goes really fast and will have an unlimited range. but realistically if the kit will get to 20 MPH fast and hold that speed economically with me assisting for a longer range I am good with it.
I do not intend on any other major changes other than low rolling resistance tires adding the tire liner and puncture resistant tubes, a rear rack ,fenders, lights lots of lights.
Again any and all input would be greatly appreciated.
By the way I will never take this bike off road it will either be all pavement riding or shell rock bike paths which I will do my best to avoid as in Florida we have many parks with paved bike paths. I will use this bike as my primary transportation and to get my much needed exercise so I will be using the pedal assist and not the throttle to adjust speed.
so I am looking for a pedal assist that has a good crank sensor to know when I am pedaling I have heard of kits that are not that sensitive to the users input and will add power in some cases when accelerating uncontrollably even for a short burst can get you into trouble.

 

[dogman dan]

Sounds like you have a good plan. I haven't used one of those motors myself, but people are loving them. Keeps the wheels "regular" .

But personally I'd just learn to use a throttle. That's me, an old motorcycle rider, so it was very easy for me to learn to just throttle to the speed I want, and then pedal up a few more mph. I find it easy to just adjust the throttle with no thoughts at all about it, keeping my cadence and pressure on my feet constant, for that perfect exercise I crave.

Just like spinning in the gym, but with a much better view.

You have one thing exactly right, without a bike that fits your body, you will suffer like a dog.

 

[KINNINVIEKID]

I have had the BBS02,750W for 2 weeks now andits great.
Rides like a normal bike when unpowered and eats hills for breakfast.
I have only used a 10Ah battery so far and get 31 miles range from my very unfit legs with plenty of big hills up here on the northern England moors.
I have it fitted to a cheap MTB and its very quiet, pity the same cant be said of those knobbly tyres but I need to keep them on for when the snow starts.
I weigh238 lbs as well!

 

[nelsonk1969]

Thanks for the replies The A2B that I have I use the throttle only occasionally however at the right cadence I am running just about 18 to 19 mph after 20 the bike motor shuts off so unless I feel frisky that day I will back off my effort to maintain 18 to 19.
I feel like when I use the throttle to accelerate that I am cheating myself out of exercise however since I am not one to shift gears this explains why I have been tiring out quickly.
The Giant has finger shifters and derailleurs that shift smooth like butter so once I get used to them with a motor I guess I will shift rather than wear myself out early just getting up to speed.
Just the other day I have been reading up about pedaling with the right amount of effort I am surprised I have been doing it wrong for so many years.
When I was a kid I used to ride my Schwinn 10 speed close to 40 miles a day I only wish I knew about the right pedaling effort back then as I never would have got off bikes for so long.

I am glad to hear positive remarks about the kit I like I just hope I can get spare parts I may even carry or mount a second controller just to have as back up.
The last thing I want is to get too far away and BZZZZ the bike is dead LOL with no way to fix it.

 

[nelsonk1969]

I have been looking high and low the more I look the more unsure I am about what direction to take with my new build.
I have been kind of waffling between mid or hub mount conversions however I am really liking the Smart Pie 3 or 4 in fact I am really liking the idea of two Smart Pie prebuilt rims on my Giant.
I have just sent in for more information on these kits,
So far these kits seem to best match the fit and finish that I want plus have options that that I really like.
I have used the search in this forum to see if any threads have been started on them but I haven't found anything yet.
so once again if you know something about this setup please let me know what you think
http://www.goldenmotor.com/

.

 

[wesnewell]

Unless you just want to spend a lot of money, then look at some of the ebay 1000W rear kits, and buy a bike with steel dropouts. If you don't count all the extras I've put on mine, total cost including bike, kit, and 10ah 88.8V battery pack was ~$700. I've got about 15K miles on it now. Even with new wheels/rims, seat, handlebars, and windshield, it's still under $1K total.

 

[Jonathan in Hiram]

I have been looking high and low the more I look the more unsure I am about what direction to take with my new build.
I have been kind of waffling between mid or hub mount conversions however I am really liking the Smart Pie 3 or 4 in fact I am really liking the idea of two Smart Pie prebuilt rims on my Giant.
I have just sent in for more information on these kits,
So far these kits seem to best match the fit and finish that I want plus have options that that I really like.
I have used the search in this forum to see if any threads have been started on them but I haven't found anything yet.
so once again if you know something about this setup please let me know what you think
http://www.goldenmotor.com/

.

Dithering over how to proceed with a build is pandemic in the ebike community, I dithered for months over direct drive or geared for SoLong, my current work in progress, eventually decided on 9C clone DD and it's great in many ways but if you live somewhere hilly and don't want to pedal at all it's probably not the right setup. On the other hand with some vigorous pedaling it will shoot up ten percent grades quite nicely where it is much slower if you don't pedal, the pedaling makes much more difference than the raw numbers comparing human power with the motor power would have you think.

If your neck pains you riding a regular bike a recumbent might be the relief you need, I have neck, back, butt and hand issues on a regular bike, they all either go away completely or are much reduced on a bent.

 

[nelsonk1969]

Unless you just want to spend a lot of money, then look at some of the ebay 1000W rear kits, and buy a bike with steel dropouts. If you don't count all the extras I've put on mine, total cost including bike, kit, and 10ah 88.8V battery pack was ~$700. I've got about 15K miles on it now. Even with new wheels/rims, seat, handlebars, and windshield, it's still under $1K total.

hi I do not mind to spend the money on a nice quality kit. I have no intention on buying yet another bike. The Roam I purchased will have to do
If it means working on it to make it stronger I am willing to do or have that done what ever is needed.
However I cannot see my new Giant not being sufficient to add a electric assist kit to it especially as I don't plan on riding this bike hard or fast or off road.
This will strictly be for pavement and possibly some shell rock paths. I defiantly have no intentions taking this bike or any other bike to any mountain bike tracks. LOL Not it my condition.
As far as money I already have close to a grand spent between the cost of the bike and the seat I installed on it. So keeping this a budget build is out the window. No matter how much money I toss at this bike doing it in kit form I should be well under what I spent on my A2B Alva + and I hope to end up
with a better product than the A2B.
Once this bike is done I will sell my A2B and get what ever I can out of it to help offset some of the cost. Basically there is no saving money for me at this point as a crap load of it is already on the fire and I am happy to keep pouring it on till I end up with what I like.

I have a fairly large mass in my brain that gets larger every year and spots in my lungs along with several failed neck and back surgeries
splurging on a bike that will bring me some excitement and motivate me everyday to ride is all that matters. at this point I could care less about the money.
I just want this one thing in my life to be quality even if I cannot use it for long.

Since my last failed neck surgery in July of 2012 I have lost the ability to ride my 2012 Honda Goldwing and I finally had to give it up I kept making payments on it for over a year hoping that any day now I will wake up from this nightmare to find out it was all a big joke.Well after I was advised by many doctors that even if my neck and back improves some I should never get on it due to the spot in my brain. I finally had to let it go. Since then I lost my Honda Van and nearly lost my house. my heath has gone down hill fast since 2012 with the lack of activity due to pain and reactions to medications and a poor diet I nearly died recently with 99% clogged arteries in my heart.

The one thing that has brought any joy into my life is my A2B Alva + but that company is so corrupt and nasty I wouldn't wish a A2B on my worse enemy.
I have spent well over 7 grand on two of those bikes one for my wife and I. and I honestly couldn't careless about them due to the horrible experience I went through trying to keep them running properly.

I have reached out for help in this forum to help me avoid the problems that I have with the A2B.
Again I am simply looking for a kit that is similar to the fit and finish of my bike ( which I think the Magic Pie fits that bill )
I am also Looking for reliability and at least the ability to get spare parts and service manuals for.
I am happy with 20 MPH as even in the hot summer days the 20MPH wind helps keep me cool. I would also like range as my A2B will help me get to the beach and back on a single charge but that's it. I want and need to ride longer than this to get into better shape.
Not that any of this may matter as any day I could wake up and not be able to move a muscle, as it is I normally wake up with my arms completely dead from the elbows down and my legs that are dead from the knees down.
So have been working as hard as I can to ride and exercise even when my neck and back is screaming in pain because I know the minute I stop I might as well give up and just climb in the grave.
The only fear I have is waking up and not be able to move at all as it would so suck for my or anyone's life to be 100% reliant on others for every single
thing you need in life.
I would much rather take a 9 to the head than live like that.
I feel the benefit each and every time I ride my e bike My arms start to feel less like lead weights and my legs have dramatically improved
since I started riding so I know I am on the right track but one month off my A2B while I am waiting on parts its like taking three steps back.

So I have much motivation for finding a reliable kit but since this is the one nice thing other than my damn TV that I have to look forward to so I want it to be as nice as I possibly can make it.

 

[lutefisk]

Wanted to share a few of my thoughts, though I'm sure others with far more experience will chime in.

First, I think the BB02 would be a great fit for the type of riding you described. Looks like it should fit your Giant no problem, and you won't need to worry about torque arms on your aluminum frame. The one drawback with the BB02 though, is that it is extremely helpful if you can figure out a way to program it, which requires a Windows computer and a home made adapter cable. Lots of info here on E-S about that. Regarding vendors, I purchased my 750W kit from Paul at em3ev.com, nothing but good things to say about the transaction, took about 10 days from ordering to delivery on my doorstep, and the price was certainly right.

Second, regarding your idea about using 2 Magic Pies, I would simply suggest doing some research on some of the 2WD bikes here on the forum. Seems like lots of pros and cons, but one thing for sure is that it would be a very tricky build for a first ebike project.

Lastly, I think it would be good to know how much energy you're willing to invest in the build. Are you willing to do some fabrication, or do you want something that can be installed with basic tools? It sounds to me like you'd rather spend your time riding the bike than in the workshop working on the bike. I happen to be the opposite, so my recommendations might be way off base

 

[nelsonk1969]

Wanted to share a few of my thoughts, though I'm sure others with far more experience will chime in.

First, I think the BB02 would be a great fit for the type of riding you described. Looks like it should fit your Giant no problem, and you won't need to worry about torque arms on your aluminum frame. The one drawback with the BB02 though, is that it is extremely helpful if you can figure out a way to program it, which requires a Windows computer and a home made adapter cable. Lots of info here on E-S about that. Regarding vendors, I purchased my 750W kit from Paul at em3ev.com, nothing but good things to say about the transaction, took about 10 days from ordering to delivery on my doorstep, and the price was certainly right.

Second, regarding your idea about using 2 Magic Pies, I would simply suggest doing some research on some of the 2WD bikes here on the forum. Seems like lots of pros and cons, but one thing for sure is that it would be a very tricky build for a first ebike project.

Lastly, I think it would be good to know how much energy you're willing to invest in the build. Are you willing to do some fabrication, or do you want something that can be installed with basic tools? It sounds to me like you'd rather spend your time riding the bike than in the workshop working on the bike. I happen to be the opposite, so my recommendations might be way off base

I like the mid drive kit just not as much as the Magic Pie ( this is only going by what I have seen on the internet ) . I didn't think I would have to modify the frame to make the Giant compatible with it. I was just hoping for a much cleaner looking install as neither kit is cheap. I also like the idea of regenerative braking of the Magic pie setup .
Can you explain what modifications would need to be done to make my Giant ready for the magic pie. it seems to me if it was front wheel drive only I wouldn't have to change anything. and perhaps later after I got the bugs worked out I could add on the second rear drive unit if I still thought I needed or wanted the second drive unit.
I still have and use my A2B and I will continue to use it as long as I can so I have time and patience to work on this build to do what is necessary.
while I cannot do what I used to do I can still accomplish just about anything that is needed it will just take me much longer as I cannot just sit there and work on the bike until its done. if I get into anything that I physically cannot do myself I have plenty of friends that I am sure would help, if custom TIG welding is required I have that covered with my friends At Van Linda Iron works or another Company that specializes in Aquifer maintenance and well drilling these guys have a massive machine shop and a very creative owner who loves to work on all sorts of projects. so welding and fabrication I think would be a minimal problem. ( just costly as I expect nothing for free )
The dual drive system I think I would love because I would try and install it in such a way that both would be powered on and working toward regenerative braking but only one would be used for powering the bike. the second motor I would want merely as a back up fail safe get me home insurance policy .
I know I can turn off the power assist on my A2B all while still having my information display working. You would think the Magic Pie has a similar setting even if the regenerative braking is disabled at the same time as the assist is disabled,
or I could go with two stand alone kits with two batteries turn both units on and the assist off on the second unit leaving that battery fresh for the return trip
Home and if something craps out I just use the one good battery on the good drive unit and ride home like nothing happened.
Perhaps my dreams out perform my skill level and budget at the moment but I surely don't think what I think I want is impossible or unreachable.
with a wiring diagram a DVOM and my Newish HP Laptop I am pretty sure this can be done and still come out less expensive than what I spent on my A2B
I just need more feedback on the Magic pie setup as one YouTube clip I viewed showed someone showing off the motor noise with and without load the rim had no tire on it but in the video the rim which appeared new was way out of true and I would be pissed if I was shipped something that out of round.
That's exactly what I want to get away from I don't care how nice it looks I don't want to start off with egg shaped rims.
I know hub motor rims are harder to keep true but it should start life true.

 

[nelsonk1969]

.[/quote]

Dithering over how to proceed with a build is pandemic in the ebike community, I dithered for months over direct drive or geared for SoLong, my current work in progress, eventually decided on 9C clone DD and it's great in many ways but if you live somewhere hilly and don't want to pedal at all it's probably not the right setup. On the other hand with some vigorous pedaling it will shoot up ten percent grades quite nicely where it is much slower if you don't pedal, the pedaling makes much more difference than the raw numbers comparing human power with the motor power would have you think.

If your neck pains you riding a regular bike a recumbent might be the relief you need, I have neck, back, butt and hand issues on a regular bike, they all either go away completely or are much reduced on a bent.[/quote]

after my first lower back operation I built or I should say rebuilt two Semi recumbent bikes they were real crap bikes from the 80s with a 16 inch rim on the front and a 20 inch rim on the back.
The name escapes me at the moment however I went all in to do a complete rebuild on both bikes once again one for my wife and I as we do pretty much everything together. ( Rebike is the name Rebike 707s ) anyways I did a sympathetic restoration on them at first cables tires tubes, new spokes trueing the rims chain derailleurs etc. only to find out those bikes were terribly unstable and not very fun to ride.
So instead of going with my gut which was to sell them and move on to something better, I did a complete restoration this time I purchased two more bikes
they were brand new 20 inch BMX style bikes that had the John Deere colors and decals on it . so I stripped off any parts that I thought I could use from the frames, which I think was only the rims,front forks brakes and levers and possibly a few other odds and ends. the rest I donated to a local charity that built bikes for the needy. to make the front forks work with the rebike frame I just had to cut the 16 inch forks off leaving only about 6 inches of the original threaded tube. I drilled 4 holes in the tube then I cut off the BMX threaded portion of the new forks and to my surprise the rebike tube almost perfectly fit on the outside of the BMX tube nearly a pressed fit all I needed was a few rosette welds and bam now I had a 20 inch front and rear really long semi recumbent .
I ran with the John Deere Green and yellow paint theme even sourcing factory decals which made the bikes look authentic. while the bikes worked great and the 20 inch rims made these bikes much more stable It did nothing for my back as the zero suspension in the sitting position when going over bumps proved way too much for my newly operated on back.
With the hardware that I have in my lower back its better for me to be in a more upright position so I can be ready to stand on the pedals when I come across a bump. I thought of going with full out recumbent bikes but there is just no way I could get myself down low enough to sit down on one let alone do it over and over everyday. I tried several types of recumbent bikes and most put my spine in that not so sweet spot just trying to get on it.
If it wasn't for that for sure I would have one sweet recumbent by now as I was drooling over a few before I settled on my A2B Bikes.
with My Giant I just need and adjustable stem and a BMX Style handle bar and I am great I think the setup off my A2B might bolt right on but I have not checked yet. most of the aftermarket adjustable stems I have found wont go up as high as the A2B adjustable stem. if they work I could just order them from my local dealer. then find massive BMX style bars I think the Giant has 31.8 MM bars on them so that has been hard to find . but if I had to I could also go with the A2B bars but I just don't like the look for my Giant plus if I could source BMX style bars I would have the cross over bar to mount my iPhone and multiple displays if I end up with a dual Magic pie setup. I live in Florida so the only two hills I would encounter ever is going over the intercostal bridge in Lake Worth which I made it over doing 16 MPH on the A2B and the one going to the dog Park which is an old landfill that was landscaped over part of Okeeheelee Park which has about 8 miles of bike trails.

Even with the A2B sitting up nearly straight my arms go dead if I ride too long and my knee and hip starts to go out also if I push it too much.
when I was riding my Harleys I couldn't go 10 miles before my arms would go dead so I switched to the Goldwing I was able to manage to ride longer with frequent breaks as that bike was like a caddy but shortly after getting the Wing my Brain started acting up and I would get the feeling when I was on the Highway doing 70 or so that I lost total sense of balance it actually felt like if didn't white knuckle the bars I would just fall over. I have ridden many bikes, motorcycles etc. and have done some crazy stuff on them over the years but nothing terrified me more than when that feeling hit with my wife on the back of the bike. I felt she trusted me completely when I was driving and I was always aware of the reasonability of having a passenger with me but here I am blasting down the turnpike feeling like I was about ready to crash it took more effort than I have ever put into anything in my life just to slow down and pull over without laying it down. It took me about an hour to shake that feeling off ,once I got that bike home I never rode it again with her.
I tried a few more times to ride it before my last neck operation and the same thing would happen on occasion however I was kind of of ready for it and just pulled over waited then I went home.
it has been well over two years now and I haven't been on a motorcycle since and damn I miss my Goldwing all the Harleys I had over the year were nice but nothing held a candle to the WING. I guess I will never know if the problem I had those days on my Wing was from the spot in my brain or from the clogged arteries that I didn't know I had or something completely unrelated either way it just wasn't worth the risk to my wife or others to continue riding it.

The only thing that gets me close to the good feeling that I got while riding my wing is riding a bike so I want it to be as smooth and fun and nice looking as I can possibly make it. as I am not just building a e bike I am building a replacement for something I will never trust myself to ride again.

 

[lutefisk]

I don't own a hubmotor ebike, so this is secondhand information at best, but one thing that jumped out at me regarding your interest in the Magic Pie is the regenerative braking. The issue that folks have run into is having a sufficiently strong torque arm to resist the effects of the regen. Especially on a FWD setup (forks are weaker than the rear triangle, and front tire does most of the braking). And most especially on an aluminum frame, which is more prone to fatigue. I think the best place for info is on torque arms is at ebikes.com: http://www.ebikes.ca/product-info/grin-products/torque-arms.html. As far as I can tell, the Magic Pie doesn't come with torque arms.

Regarding mid-drive vs hubmotor, or more specifically, BB02 vs Magic Pie, I can't help you much since I've never ridden a Magic Pie. I will say though, that the BB02 installation on my Giant NRS is very stealthy--in fact, I haven't had a single person comment on the fact that I'm riding an ebike. I'm not sure the same can be said for the gigantic shiny black and silver disc that is the Magic Pie. One nice upside of the Magic Pie compared with other hubmotors is the integrated controller, which means one less box to strap on the bike. In fact, I've long considered using a 16" Magic Pie to install on my BOB trailer as a pusher--it's still on my to-do list. The big downside to the Magic Pie for me is its throttle-only operation, and ironically, the integrated controller, which generates additional heat, and also limits aftermarket customization.

The reason I asked about how much energy you wanted to invest in this project is because, for most of the currently available kits, it doesn't take terribly long to install the system, but it can take an extraordinary amount of time to tweak and tune the setup. Some kits very much more so than others.

For example, I have ridden a few Bion-X bikes, and they're great. I don't own one, but have spoken at length with the guys at the local bike shop that sells them, and they're basically idiot-proof to install and run. The pedelec works beautifully, and all the components look very slick. It is a proprietary system, so there's no mixing and matching of aftermarket stuff. The 350W kit w/battery goes for $2K (price at my lbs, online is cheaper), which is within your budget, but on the very very low end of power-per-dollar spent. If I wasn't such a sucker for playing around with stuff, I'd buy a Bion-X kit in a heartbeat, and happily enjoy riding.

 

[nelsonk1969]

As far as the torque arms front or rear I am not too worried about them as they are inexpensive and can be easily modified to bolt on rather than just using a cheesy strap. using regenerative braking as far as I have learned means one arm has to be preloaded one direction while the other is preloaded the other direction, if the off the shelf torque arms slot has too much wiggle for the axle my buddies could easily fill the hole in and water jet the the slot out to make a more precise fit.
for me the only use for a front Drive setup would be so I would have a back up to get me home incase a failure would happen.
I wouldn't need both hubs to work at the same time but I would need to be able to use it to get me home so the regenerative braking function could be turned off for the front if it was to cause a problem but I don't think limping it home one time would hurt the forks perhaps constant use may cause a problem overtime if so I am sure someone out there has upgraded forks that would work fine.
I try to never use the brakes as much as possible by timing lights and such anyways.
The setup for the Magic pie under the kit order form shows a option for pedal assist you just have to select it when ordering the kit.
I haven't checked my email yet but I hit up the company for as much information as they can give me. I will post what they had to say when I get a reply
I actually like these hub motors and rims from the pictures and videos I have seen they seem to have a great fit and finish which is a good indicator of quality . I watched on YouTube a guy unboxing two of these and they were packed well and looked like a great match to my Giant in terms of quality components I have no clue if it will work with my 10 speed rear cassette and factory disk brakes I hope so as I really would like to keep as much of the original parts as I can. not just to save money but I love all the higher end parts I got when I bought the Roam one. I could have saved a lot of money by purchasing
a Roam 2 or 3 but I liked what came with the 1 much more. My bike shifts better than any bike than I have ever had. I would hate to modify this and perhaps
end up with a good looking clunky derailleur setup.
if I can find a way to get the dual motor setup to work and lets say I found a front fork or found my fork would work fine even for the regenerative breaking I
could see myself wanting to use one motor and one battery on one the first leg of the trip then switching once the battery was low for the return trip all while recharging the drained battery and resting the last used motor.
I have worked at a Water Treatment Plant for so many years where everything we had multiple redundancies because no matter what was going on in the world we always had to make and pump water. this sense of over kill has been beaten into me for so long I pretty much treat everything I own the way I would at when I was at work,
I have been stranded with my A2B and with a Bad Back and Bad neck no way to lift it or push it for miles and miles to get home you start to wonder to
yourself how bad do I really want this bike. LOL then your thinking of having to call a damn tow truck for your bike. LOL really ?
my lack of trust for the A2B has left me where I only ride a 1/2 mile lap around the block in my neighborhood over and over and over until even my neighbors
get dizzy watching my wife and I .
This is why I am strongly wanting to go with a dual everything setup because I would love to go to see something anything other than just my neighborhood .
and with just one system regardless of how reliable it is something is bound to happen when your least prepared for it to happen.

As far as a stealth setup I want a clean factory looking install but I don't care if anyone can tell that its electric as I am building it for me and my health not to impress some hot chick in stretchy pants pedaling a carbon bike. heck even if I was to impress her and I was single with my bad back and neck its not like I could impress her when it counted the most. LOL God my life is just too funny.
you know your in bad shape when you cannot even use your imagination to score with a hot chick.

 

[nelsonk1969]

so far it seems I may just want more out of an e bike than can be had. regardless of how nice of a set up I want it seems going all electric just will not cut it.
the road blocks I have ran into wanting a redundant back up system so I am not left stranded will work good until one system fails as the parasitic drag of the non functioning system would be too hard on the working system.
So the only way I can see around this is to use a mid drive system and a front drive friction mounted Gas engine as my fail safe,
if the mid drive craps out I could just pop out the master link store the chain in a baggie and use the friction drive to get me home.
It will look like crap but at least I would be fairly confident that no matter what happened I could get home. all I would need to do is regular PMs on the Gas power plant and keep it topped off with fresh fuel and fuel stabilizer. a few more spare parts and tools may be needed but I think this plan is a go.
Once I get it going I will post some pictures.
thanks for the input that I received

 

[fourbanger]

If I may add yet another car to your train of thought, there are plenty of people riding around quite happily on dual hub systems. One of the best ways (and the only way I would even consider for the time being) is to run both hubs at once. This would be made infinitely easier if both motors were exactly the same, with identical controllers and all else being equal ( like two magic pies ) you would only need one high powered battery and one throttle and one pedal assist sensor etc.

The chief benefit of doing so seems to be that each motor splits the load, so in essence either one is only working half as hard as would be on their own. Kind of ties into your philosophy of redundancy as well, which I happen to agree with.

OK.

V.

 

[nelsonk1969]

Yeah I sure would like the dual Magic pie motors ( going from experience with my A2B only when it is not powered on, it is just not possible for me to pedal
it any distance ) however if it is powered on and just not accelerating it seems quiet capable of coasting for a long time and being pedaled just not very fast.
I do not know for sure if the magic pie acts the same but I have no reason to think otherwise. .
I did find out that my A2B didn't like it when I used my key fob to turn it off while I was coasting to a stop once powered off it was like the brakes were applied. which is why I think the dual hub motor plan or using a Hub motor setup at all may not work for my needs.
Short of dragging a trailer with both my original rims and tires and all the tools needed to swap a regular rim for a non functioning front or rear Hub motor
I don't see a way to make the Magic pie setup to work. however now that I think of it a trailer would solve the problem and I wouldn't have to have a ugly heavy friction drive motor hanging on the front of my bike plus I would be able to carry more gear. HMMM
I wouldn't need the trailer except for long trips that I want to try and go on which would be nice to have a cooler fishing poles etc. anyways
I would be able to carry spare batteries in the trailer and my chargers if needed also.
I can see this is going to get expensive but I like it much better than a mid drive and a gas motor setup.
I have yet to hear back from Golden motor with a dual setup quote. I guess I will have to go old school and call them.

 

[2old]

One thing that you might consider (and I'm sure that there are plenty of good reasons not to do this) is what I used. The system consisted of a 350w, 36V front hub motor on a single speed (32:19 gearing for hilly socal). I did it to try out a DIY kit and have a bike that I could pedal "normally" (the bike pedals fine even with the extra weight), but this type of arrangement would provide a good backup for you in case the esystem failed. The 32:19 was a "magic ratio" for my bike and required only a correct spacing of the rear cog on the cassette, but you could use a chain tension system (like Surly) if necessary.

 

[nelsonk1969]

One thing that you might consider (and I'm sure that there are plenty of good reasons not to do this) is what I used. The system consisted of a 350w, 36V front hub motor on a single speed (32:19 gearing for hilly socal). I did it to try out a DIY kit and have a bike that I could pedal "normally" (the bike pedals fine even with the extra weight), but this type of arrangement would provide a good backup for you in case the esystem failed. The 32:19 was a "magic ratio" for my bike and required only a correct spacing of the rear cog on the cassette, but you could use a chain tension system (like Surly) if necessary.

do you have pictures of what you have in mind?

 

[nelsonk1969]

This is the reply I received from Golden Motor
From what I can tell if I want to keep my hydraulic brakes I will lose the regenerative Brake function,I am guessing their setup has built in switches
much of what this guy was trying to say is hard to understand. they sent me a price quote but my lap top cannot open .


Hello Kevin,


Thanks for your inquiry, this is Johnny from Golden Motor at your service.


Please find the attached price list with specification.


1) If you need a long range battery, I recommend the 36V 12AH LFP battery;
2) Pedal assist with a thumb control are available;
3) You can retain your 10 speed rear cassette with factory disk brakes front and rear, BUT it's maybe hard for you to install them in a good condition,
so I recommend you to install the motor in a bike shop in you place;
4) Of course front wheel is better, many customers install the motor in from wheel;
5) We will send you throttle, brakes, cruise control to you, if you use the Giant brakers, the regenerative braking function will be lose, but I still recommend you to use the Giant's brake,
it's beautiful than ours, it's the truth ;
6) I recommend you to use one battery with a rack;
7) Everyone rim with motor will be adjusted and tested before send out, they will be shipped properly trued and tensioned, with foam in a hard carton;
8) We have 700c rim, you can see this size in the price list, but I recommend you to buy a tyre from us, I can't promise this rim can be very suitable with the Giant's tyre,
our tyre is cheap, or maybe free of charge.
9) About other spare parts, I recommend you to order our Magic Pie 4, it can be used with a LCD display, it's popular.


Hope all above can help you, any question still, please feel free to ask me.


We are on holiday, will go back work in Oct 8th, but I'll still reply mails if you have any question.

 

[2old]

I'll try to get pictures but my system is just a Dillenger 350w front hub motor with a 36V, 10 ah "water bottle" battery (look at Dillengerus for a description of the kit; it was $699). The bike is a mid 90's Diamondback Apex dipped in acid and powder coated with a steel front fork and some premium components. The rear wheel has a freewheel and I converted it to a single speed with a spacer kit. There is nothing esoteric about the build. If this seems like a viable option to you, you could remove the big and small chainrings on the crankset (assuming the front is a triple) as well as the shifters, derailleurs, and cassette, then shorten the chain; it's very simple, but you need to be careful to get the chain length cut to the correct number of links, and may (probably will) need a chain tension unit (although I didn't). The other beauty (for me) is that the gear that I selected is what I normally run my single speed anyway. Of course, PAS is useful only on hills. I'm an old motorcyclist and removed the PAS since throttle only is fine for me.

 

[2old]

Sorry, I just realized that this was a stupid suggestion; if you're using a front kit(like me), you'd be better off using your current gears.

 

[dnmun]

why did you not come here first when you were having problems with the A2B? there are several people familiar with it and could have helped more than most people you came in contact with imo.

does it not run or does the loss of battery capacity cut the range so much you do not use it?

 

[nelsonk1969]

why did you not come here first when you were having problems with the A2B? there are several people familiar with it and could have helped more than most people you came in contact with imo.

does it not run or does the loss of battery capacity cut the range so much you do not use it?

The bikes are so new that even the one year warranty on the battery is still good. is the reason I tried to go through A2B to get this bike repaired.
By the time I was done dealing with The authorized dealer and A2B I was so mad I was seeing red.

The bikes still work currently the only problem I have is 4 rims that are out of round ( no longer true )
My bike has a broken spoke that was half ass repaired and now has a much more severe wobble to it even when coasting.

All I wanted from A2B was the correct spoke tension data for the rear hubs, but I think even if I took my bikes to the Bicyclery and had them true or rebuild the rims properly with upgraded rims I will have the same problem.
The rear hub on the A2B is massive and wide Stuffed inside a 24" rim with very short spokes which causes the spokes to have to bend over right at the nipples it is such a severe angle that there is no wonder the spokes break and the rims were not trued correctly by the authorized dealer.
the bikes still work but I now only ride them on the 1/2 mile block in front of my house.
I have tried a few sources to get a factory service manual and have struck out. which means I will have no choice but to be glued to the hip of my authorized dealer anytime I need work done yet they are clearly untrained and also do not have this mythical manual. so any time I have a problem with it my bike is down for far too long while they play the parts hanging game trying to fix it, but even this is impossible for them to do as no replacement parts are available in the US and because the bike is under warranty I keep getting used junk parts sent in from A2B for my new bikes even when I would pay cash for them.
By all means if someone here has service procedures, wiring diagrams, diagnostic flow charts to diagnose and repair the A2B electrical system that would be great. when the battery goes into protect mode like it did with my wife's bike it requires a specialized piece of equipment to reset it.
I would also need to find a way to work around the severe angle the spokes are put in due to the Massive rear hub.
this would be a game changer for me.
However I have no intention on investing more money into these bikes if I am forced to pay 50 dollars an hour for lazy undertrained snot nose punks to play paddy cake with my expensive e bike. ( I feel without a factory service manual that is all anyone could do them )