Front suspension or steel frame

[transposon]

Unfortunately due to my needing a XL frame - 22+" and my desire to buy a used bike, I can only find a steel MTB w/o suspension or an aluminum frame MTB with front suspension.

Any thoughts on which would be better all other things being equal? I plan on averaging 20-25 mph for long distance rides of about 1.5-2 hours.

I weight about 230lbs and would like the ability to carry an additional 50 pounds or so of cargo.

Thanks.

 

[thundercamel]

I've had no problems with my aluminum Walmart bike. 1500w no regen, and I'm 270lbs. I did replace the front fork for a 100mm travel model, which was a huge improvement in comfort.

 

[motomech]

Unfortunately due to my needing a XL frame - 22+" and my desire to buy a used bike, I can only find a steel MTB w/o suspension or an aluminum frame MTB with front suspension.

Any thoughts on which would be better all other things being equal? I plan on averaging 20-25 mph for long distance rides of about 1.5-2 hours.

I weight about 230lbs and would like the ability to carry an additional 50 pounds or so of cargo.

Thanks.

Where do you live? (maybe you can fill out your profile).
Anywhere mountain biking is a popular pastime, I've had no problem finding used XL BMX bikes on Craigslist(although the XL frames I have seen are usually 21 Inches). Used bikes w/ 26 inch wheels going back 15 years or so are considered obsolete by serious BMX guys and are a great value, and 26 Inch wheel BMX bikes make great ebikes for street/lite off-road.

I plan on averaging 20-25 mph

Big difference between 20 mph and 25 mph.
At a 20 mph, maybe you could get by w/ no suspension, but at 25 mph you would be better off with at least frt. suspension (Both ends would be best). Plus you will be carrying lots of weight (Lot's of battery to go 25 mph for 2 hours).

 

[e-beach]

I would never go fast on a non suspension e-bike. Unless you enjoy the feeling of bombs going off under you every time you hit a bump or pot hole or something. A non suspension e-bike at 25mph is really uncomfortable. Go for front suspension at least unless you want to go with fat tires and slow down. A full suspension downhill bike would be more comfortable at 25 mph, maybe, depending if you and your cargo bottom out the suspension. Weight is an issue with bicycles and suspension. E-bikes are no different.

 

[sleepy_tired]

I swapped out my suspension fork for a solid fork years ago.

I am fine going 25mph or faster. No bombs going off. Nothing exploding. No flat tires or bent rims. No fires or rods of steel plunging into my chest or my head rocketing off my shoulders when I hit a speed bump.

When I see potholes or bumps I go around them. If I can't then I just stand up a bit. My arms and legs make a lot better suspension then any fork does.

I think that a lot of the problem people have is that they put their saddle so damn low that they use it like a seat. So ever little bump they hit is shoved right up their butt. On some bikes like like a pedal-forward, recumbent, or traditional cruiser bike are like that when properly adjusted (which is why you need a big fluffy seat for things like that), but is absolutely wrong for a mountain bike, city bike, or road bike geometry.

It seems to me, and I could be wrong, but a properly fitted bicycle were you hold yourself up by your legs and arms much more then your ass and you use larger tires to absorb road vibration and smaller bumps then suspension is effectively worthless at the speeds bicycles are designed to go.



When in doubt, and you want a mountain bike, buy a bicycle with a front suspension. Get something decent with lock-outs. Use the lock-outs to determine if you really see a big difference. I know it didn't for me.

The reason for this is because most non-suspension bikes are designed for non-suspension forks, which are much shorter then suspension forks. So swapping a suspension fork onto most rigid bikes will jack up it's geometry.. which can have unpredictable results. Were as the going the other way is easy... people sell suspension-adjusted forks (longer then normal) that can be installed on your bike without dramatic changes to geometry. Swapping a fork is not really that difficult. I like Surly forks.

If you don't want a road bike and want something like a city bike, touring bike, or road bike or something like that then just get what you want and ignore the doubters. Just make sure whatever you pick has a lot of clearance for larger tires and fenders.

 

[motomech]

I swapped out my suspension fork for a solid fork years ago.

I am fine going 25mph or faster. No bombs going off. Nothing exploding. No flat tires or bent rims. No fires or rods of steel plunging into my chest or my head rocketing off my shoulders when I hit a speed bump.

When I see potholes or bumps I go around them. If I can't then I just stand up a bit. My arms and legs make a lot better suspension then any fork does.

I think that a lot of the problem people have is that they put their saddle so damn low that they use it like a seat. So ever little bump they hit is shoved right up their butt. On some bikes like like a pedal-forward, recumbent, or traditional cruiser bike are like that when properly adjusted (which is why you need a big fluffy seat for things like that), but is absolutely wrong for a mountain bike, city bike, or road bike geometry.

It seems to me, and I could be wrong, but a properly fitted bicycle were you hold yourself up by your legs and arms much more then your ass and you use larger tires to absorb road vibration and smaller bumps then suspension is effectively worthless at the speeds bicycles are designed to go.



When in doubt, and you want a mountain bike, buy a bicycle with a front suspension. Get something decent with lock-outs. Use the lock-outs to determine if you really see a big difference. I know it didn't for me.

The reason for this is because most non-suspension bikes are designed for non-suspension forks, which are much shorter then suspension forks. So swapping a suspension fork onto most rigid bikes will jack up it's geometry.. which can have unpredictable results. Were as the going the other way is easy... people sell suspension-adjusted forks (longer then normal) that can be installed on your bike without dramatic changes to geometry. Swapping a fork is not really that difficult. I like Surly forks.

If you don't want a road bike and want something like a city bike, touring bike, or road bike or something like that then just get what you want and ignore the doubters. Just make sure whatever you pick has a lot of clearance for larger tires and fenders.

Since I don't think e-beach or I are "doubters" and should be "ignored", I feel inclined to respond.

I am fine going 25mph or faster......When I see potholes or bumps I go around them.

It's the one that you don't see that hurts. And if someone is going to ride at night @ 25 mph, They are going to hit a pothole or speed bump at some time. I have some killer Luna Headlites on 50 Volts, but a single lite will always leave a shadow and hitting something unseen happens.

It seems to me, and I could be wrong, but a properly fitted bicycle were you hold yourself up by your legs and arms much more then your ass.....

It's not a case of being "right or wrong" but optimizing the Ebike for the riders style and needs and while there was a time when I could keep my weight mostly off the seat, those years a long gone. What you are not taking into consideration is, many here (More than half I would wager), are not perfectly fit, which speaks to the reason they are riding ebikes, and are probably going to use the seat as a seat.

...and you use larger tires to absorb road vibration and smaller bumps then suspension is effectively worthless at the speeds bicycles are designed to go.

The OP talked about riding in the 20 to 25 MPH range, not exactly "bicycle speeds" unless one is wearing lycra. And if suspension is so "worthless", why is the continuing trend in Mountain bikes moving towards it, even when it adds weight?

At least are you correct about one thing, The OP should get what he wants and that in itself, demonstrates that there is no right or wrong suggestions. Expressing what you think makes a good ebike is fine, but you don't need to slam a couple of long time members while doing it.

 

[flat tire]

Full suspension or bust.

 

[transposon]

Thanks for all of the input everyone. I think I am set on at least front suspension. My concern with full suspension is the lack of space to stick the giant battery I am going to need. I would also like the ability to carry some cargo.

 

[e-beach]

My first e-bike was a non-suspension Trek mountain bike. I rode it for about a year. The ride was harsh, and yes, even a small potholes felt like a bomb went off every time I hit one. As for going around bumps and potholes, well, if you live in a city where you have no cars to watch, then you might see them all, for most of us around here, that doesn't happen. If you only have one route, to and from where you go, you might be able to memorize all the bumps and potholes etc. Or you could, like mentioned above stand on your pedals 100% of the time and use your arms and legs. It is not the most relaxing way to go. And, over time you will feel it in your hands, wrists, knees, ankles etc. How do I know? I have done it.

After a year I went to a front suspension mountain bike. At high speeds (20-25mph) I tend to stand a lot on my front hubed mountain bike despite the front suspension because the bumps and potholes can slam the seat up into body....(smacking your family jewels, kester etc.) I have been riding on that configuration for over 7 years now. At slower speeds I sit, however I use a well padded seat and a suspension seat tube that sometimes works.

On my full suspension bike I sit a lot because it floats over most of the obstacles that used to give me that explosion feeling with a non-suspension hard tailed bike. As you addressed, suspension bikes tend to have smaller triangle spaces then non rear suspended bikes. And, that is indeed a drawback to my Pro Flex 757. It is always best to put the weight of the battery in the triangle for best handling. I have never converted a Giant Anthem mountain bike, but they do have full suspension a wide open triangle and they tend to be tall. They are also more expensive then a hard-tailed mountain bike.

As for cargo, you have 2 basic options. 1: go with a hard tail and attach a heavy duty rack on it or a trailer attached to a rear dropout. 2: Go with a full suspension bike with a trailer attached to the seat tube. BTW, it is not common, but seat tubes can bend and break.

Or if you are in the mood for something more exotic, look at this thread. https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=28389

 

[khorse]

The OP talked about riding in the 20 to 25 MPH range, not exactly "bicycle speeds" unless one is wearing lycra. And if suspension is so "worthless", why is the continuing trend in Mountain bikes moving towards it, even when it adds weight?

The thing is that a mountain bike is built for going very fast down a dirt hill, jumping over ramps and that sort of thing. They suffer from pedal bob and the like on a flat or especially trying to crank one up hill, most of the last 25 years they've spent trying to fix that and they're still not there yet.

For an on-road fast ebike our needs are different because we're trying to smooth out a road that's already mostly flat, we're not trying to absorb three foot drops. For my money the best improvement is in wider and lower pressure tyres, then a sprung saddle, followed by a longer wheelbase.

 

[Grantmac]

Pedal bob is nearly irrelevant on ebikes and has been more or less fixed on low and medium travel MTBs for the last decade.

 

[khorse]

Pedal bob is nearly irrelevant on ebikes and has been more or less fixed on low and medium travel MTBs for the last decade.

Yes and no, if you're only using your pedals as footpegs you're not going to ever see it, but more or less fixed still isn't 100% fixed.

Personally I need to keep my feet moving even if I'm not contributing any useful amount of power, a mountain bike gets really uncomfortable "coasting" everywhere for any period of time, plus cops exist. I agree with sleepy_tired, the ride and handling is much better and more comfortable setting everything up as if you're pedaling, vs trying to use it like a tiny motorcycle.

Wheelbase is too short, the rider is over the back wheel, with the best will in the world a battery in the main triangle is still too high and too far back, so a suspension fork is too lightly loaded to be as useful as it otherwise could, rear suspension robs battery space.

Ideal ebike for on road use with no real intent to pedal will probably look more like a tomos moped than anything.

 

[Grantmac]

I pedal (usefully) everywhere except extremely steep climbs. There is zero bob even on my 200mm travel bike because the chain is under constant tension rather than pulses.
Plus I can ride down or up stairs, hop curbs and generally not care about road condition.

 

[wturber]

Pedal bob is nearly irrelevant on ebikes and has been more or less fixed on low and medium travel MTBs for the last decade.

Not for me. My front fork is pretty crappy and I have to climb 10-15% grades with a heavy rear hub that doesn't have the torque to do the steeper climbs on its own. That said, I have learned to time my pull on the handlebars and I can manage the inherent bob pretty well.

IMO, the whole suspension or not come down almost completely to riding style and situation. The more a person rides and pedals, the less important suspension tends to be. The smoother the terrain, the less important suspension tends to be. The longer the wheelbase, the less important suspension tends to be. The slower the speed, the less important suspension tends to be.

One other thing to consider is whether or not low cost, poorly damped suspension is any better than no suspension at all.

And if you want to carry anything substantial not in a backpack, you've got to get a bit clever with a full suspension bike. Though a front basket is pretty doable without a lot of cleverness. A hardtail makes it pretty easy to carry a fair bit more stuff.

Back to the original question about frame choice, I think either steel or aluminum is fine. But look for a name brand with larger than typical tubes and/or anything else that indicates a more robust than typical frame. My Iron Horse Warrior 3.0 frame fits that bill in an aluminum framed bike and I think that the (early 2000s) Trek 820 steel frame bike that I'm converting into a cargo bike fits the bill for a moderately priced steel framed bike given its oversized tubes.

 

[dogman dan]

Well, lets start with buy the bike that fits you the best. That's the really important thing. then make whatever modifications make it fit you better, like longer seatpost and taller bars if you are still too tall on it.

Go with a rear motor, or a mid drive, so you can use either bike, with or without front suspension.

Pedal bob is more from rear suspension, so the front fork should not be a big problem.

Do avoid buying a bike that is too cheap, like the lowest priced mtb's at Walmart. No roadmaster. But cheap steep beach cruisers make great e bikes, if they have dual rim brakes and 7 speeds. They fit a big guy better than other cheap mt'bs, that are sized for a 14 year old.

 

[transposon]

I already purchased the rear hub motor. It's a 1000W conversion kit. I have an old aluminum Gary Fisher Tarpon that I am considering fixing up and tossing the motor into.

https://www.mtbr.com/product/older-categories-bikes/2003-hardtail/gary-fisher/tarpon.html
https://www.bicyclebluebook.com/value-guide/product/91899/

I would toss on some kool stop brake pads and replace basically everything except the frame and front fork. I would probably add a suspension seat and the largest tires I can fit on it. Would this bike be OK for my intended use?

 

[dustNbone]

I wouldn't be afraid to try no suspension, if the roads you're riding on are half decent.

I've been commuting 30+km a day on a 1974 Nishiki touring bike with no suspension (but a bendy road fork) and 38mm tires, for several years now.

I've hit a couple potholes that concerned me, one that destroyed an extremely solid rear wheel, but that's over the course of 4 or 5 years. That particular pothole was covered in just enough snow to hide it, but not enough to fill it. And it was massive. The city paid for my damages.

But that's it, a couple of freak events that probably would have been made less crappy with suspension. Along with tens of thousands of km trouble free riding on a bike I can lift with one hand, and no one ever tries to steal.