Help me pick out a new rc lipo charger: hitec x4 AC problems

[parajared]

My hitec x4 is starting to go bad. Only two of the four ports are working.
Not sure if I want another X4 or not, considering the quality of the one I have.
What is everyone using these days to charge and balance their rc lipos?

- I like multiport chargers because I don't see a good way to balance individual lipo cells with bulk chargers.
- I have 16 5000mAH batteries and only 8 hours to charge them all when I'm at work.
- Something that is not heavy or large, because I carry my charger to work with me.

Any suggestions?

 

[parajared]

Right now I am thinking
Hyperion 1420i: $130
http://www.amazon.com/Hyperion-EOS-1420i-Net3-Charger/dp/B004E7MQ3Y/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1344033616&sr=8-3&keywords=hyperion+charger

OCZ ModX 700w power supply: $89
http://www.amazon.com/OCZ-ModXStream-Modular-Performance-compatible/dp/B001EYV690/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top

BVM 8s: $13
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B006TA2SBY/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_3?pf_rd_p=486539851&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B007XJEBNI&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=1E3PFC3P9TPP4AFT0HVZ

I think I will bulk charge after all, and just keep an eye on the batteries with a cell checker.

 

[deVries]

How many volts charge do you really need on the 16s to get back home with? If 65v or less, then using a Bulk Charger (not RC) like a King Pan is easy. You should still balance charge at least monthly or more often if needed. If weight is a real concern, then don't get anything over 400w. It's too heavy to lug around, imo, even 400w is too heavy for my preference. A 5A charger would charge your pack in just a tad over one hour, so you don't need a big charger. 200w-300w charger will be much lighter in weight and still charge your pack in plenty of time. 200w will charge your pack in less than 2 hrs.

eva-assemble has cheaper shipping... just ask for it.

 

[dnmun]

can you open up the X4 and see if it can be fixed while it is still working on the other channels? if 2 of the channles are working, then you have something to use as a reference when checking for voltages at various points in the circuit. but maybe it is the schottky diode for the SMPS on the dead channels. could be easy.

 

[dogman dan]

Definitely, if you are needing to charge 16 lipo bricks to make it home, you have quite a ride.

If a partial charge is all you need to make the range to get home, a lower than full charge from a bulk charger should be very safe. So get a charger from bms battery, and have it set to whatever, 4v per cell perhaps, for a fairly safe bulk charge that has lots of headroom before any out of balance cells would get overcharged.

What makes you think you need daily balance charges? If you do really need them, you need to weed out some wonky packs.

You'd still want a good charger at home of course, so the hyperion might be a very good choice for that.

 

[deVries]

If a partial charge is all you need to make the range to get home, a lower than full charge from a bulk charger should be very safe. So get a charger from bms battery, and have it set to whatever, 4v per cell perhaps, for a fairly safe bulk charge that has lots of headroom before any out of balance cells would get overcharged.

Though I bought several "bulk chargers" from BMSBattery, I would not do that again. The reason is their shipping costs are much higher, and the EMC chargers don't have good QC. The EMC chargers from BMSBattery have a lot of failures reported here vs King Pan. Why buy an inferior charger brand and pay higher shipping prices, when there is a much better quality alternative with lower shipping costs?

Here is the contact info posted from someone selling King Pan chargers:

My email is ev.assemble@gmail.com. You can also reach my coleague Irene by evassemble.irene@gmail.com.
KP charger are trusted by many old user as they already use long time ago. KP chargers' long time experience make their chargers reliable and reduce and control fault rate well.

This is the bulk charger to get for $58, and shipping is only about $30 to USA if you request cheapest shipping option.

Just give them the voltage setting you need...

http://www.evassemble.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=3&products_id=6

Even dogman loves his King Pan...

Again, the "kingpower type" 5 amp metal case chargers have been the best reliable ones in my collection so far.

 

[wesnewell]

If you decide on a Hyperion 1420I, you'll need a 600W 24V power supply, not a PC PSU, which will limit your charging power.

 

[dogman dan]

I'm no fan of BMS battery. But I didn't realize the chargers were having any more failure rate than others, which has always been pretty shockingly high.

I wasn't able to turn my 36v kingpan charger down enough to make it safe to use for bulk charging without a bms. But the bms battery ones can be ordered to your voltage specification.

Alternatively, another good solution would be something like a 350w meanwell and a 200w I charger or something along those lines. I don't get it at all why he sees a need to balance charge every single cycle. Paralell em all up, put it on the charger on the lipo fast charge setting. Done. Balance them at home on the weekend at most. Nothing wrong with a hyperion at home of course.

 

[parajared]

I ended up with a 1000 watt 12 volt gaming PC power supply from amazon, a 800watt 2 port charger from hobbyking (Turnigy mega 400w x2), and rc lipo checker from amazon. This set me back about $200.

I plan to check all the batteries every few rides or so to see if any batteries need balancing. I used to balance every charge, but I think just checking them to make sure they are not out of balance will be fine.

This may end up being a lot to lug around, but it sure looks like it would charge fast.

In case you are wondering here is a link on how to use a pc power supply as your battery charger: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CT1tiQOz3LU
Here's the links to the stuff I bought:
cell checker: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B006TA2SBY/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_3?pf_rd_p=486539851&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B007XJEBNI&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=1E3PFC3P9TPP4AFT0HVZ
charger: http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__20613__Turnigy_MEGA_400Wx2_Battery_Charger_Discharger_800W_.html
power supply: http://www.amazon.com/Cool-Power-Gamer-CP-G1080-Supply/dp/B004YF9V4S/ref=pd_ybh_3

Thank you for all your suggestions.

 

[dnmun]

can you open up the X4 to examine what is wrong with it while you still have the two channels working?

it would be interesting to learn how they function and how easy it is to fix.

i expect it will be just the 2 fast diodes that are leaking and they are really cheap.

 

[deVries]

The setup you bought is *NOT* easy to setup for daily travel charging, when you are carrying the TWO/THREE items into work daily back & forth. Also, your Power Supply is 4.7 pounds.

For under $100 dollars, including shipping, you could have got ONE item to bulk charge, and weigh about HALF just your Power Supply. You bought "HEAVY"... too much weight, and 2-3 items are needed to charge vs 1. :?

Bulk charging will not be as safe with your setup, unless you tune the Ah charge way down. Charging at high amps fast could shoot some weak cells high too fast for you to "catch it"; I suggest you use the balance device w/bulk charger too if you charge at high amps.

I ended up with a 1000 watt 12 volt gaming PC power supply from amazon, a 800watt 2 port charger from hobbyking (Turnigy mega 400w x2), and rc lipo checker from amazon. This set me back about $200.

I plan to check all the batteries every few rides or so to see if any batteries need balancing. I used to balance every charge, but I think just checking them to make sure they are not out of balance will be fine.

This may end up being a lot to lug around, but it sure looks like it would charge fast.

In case you are wondering here is a link on how to use a pc power supply as your battery charger: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CT1tiQOz3LU
Here's the links to the stuff I bought:
cell checker: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B006TA2SBY/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_3?pf_rd_p=486539851&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B007XJEBNI&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=1E3PFC3P9TPP4AFT0HVZ
charger: http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__20613__Turnigy_MEGA_400Wx2_Battery_Charger_Discharger_800W_.html
power supply: http://www.amazon.com/Cool-Power-Gamer-CP-G1080-Supply/dp/B004YF9V4S/ref=pd_ybh_3

Thank you for all your suggestions.

 

[dogman dan]

Oh please. 200w per channel charging is not that fast when you have multiple paralelled packs hooked up to them. If he hooked up 8 paralelled packs to each side, he's charging each pack at a ripping 25 watts!

Not exactly likely to push a bad cell too fast. Besides, only an idiot would leave a bad cell in the system. That's what the cell checker is for, to find that sucker and be rid of it.

It is though, a hell of a load to carry. It's why I tend to recomend a pingbattery for long commutes. Idealy, he'd leave the charger at work if possible.

 

[deVries]

Oh please. 200w per channel charging is not that fast when you have multiple paralelled packs hooked up to them. If he hooked up 8 paralelled packs to each side, he's charging each pack at a ripping 25 watts!

Not exactly likely to push a bad cell too fast. Besides, only an idiot would leave a bad cell in the system. That's what the cell checker is for, to find that sucker and be rid of it.

1) First off, where does he say he's charging at 200w per channel w/his new setup?

2) Where does he say he's paralleling multiple packs?

3) He does say he has 16 5Ah battery... Obviously, a 5Ah battery can be charged super fast with his setup of DUAL 400w per channel chargers, 16A per channel at 6s, which is why I qualified my suggestion to charge at lower amps as follows:

Bulk charging will not be as safe with your setup, unless you tune the Ah charge way down. Charging at high amps fast could shoot some weak cells high too fast for you to "catch it"; I suggest you use the balance device w/bulk charger too if you charge at high amps.

Please read what I write carefully.

Also, he implied he was using a 16s 5Ah battery by writing the following...

- I have 16 5000mAH batteries and only 8 hours to charge them all when I'm at work.

BUT, then he goes and buys a charger that can ONLY DO 12s??? WTF? :lol:

Also, he's carrying almost 8-lbs & 3 items, whereas ONE bulk charger for HALF $ what he paid & it weighs less than 2.6 lbs. vs 8-lbs. Plus, this much cheaper, much lighter weight, single device charger, would do the job much easier & KISS too. That's just one big hassle he gave himself, since he wrote he is carrying this to work...

- Something that is not heavy or large, because I carry my charger to work with me.

He also said he was just going to bulk charge too... too bad he didn't do this, as he said he would...

I think I will bulk charge after all, and just keep an eye on the batteries with a cell checker.

but the bms battery ones can be ordered to your voltage specification.

The King Pan I linked to has much lower shipping cost, AND the voltage can be custom set too. Here is the link again...

This is the bulk charger to get for $58, and shipping is only about $30 to USA if you request cheapest shipping option.

Just give them the voltage setting you need...

http://www.evassemble.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=3&products_id=6

Even dogman loves his King Pan...

Again, the "kingpower type" 5 amp metal case chargers have been the best reliable ones in my collection so far.

 

[parajared]

nah, I want one that can balance charge too.
That's why I went with a turnigy mega. I plan on using the cell checker to find out of balance cells then using the balance feature on them. I also have a lot of rc stuff too. I fly rc helis and I even built my own 1/24 rc race track on my patio. I want a charger that I can charge my tiny 300mah 1s rc batteries as well as my ebike batteries. I am selling the x4, I have no clue on how to fix it. It's an intermittent problem and I just don't know where to start.

I am planning on hitting yard sales, craigslist, in search of a power supply, you can find those things everywhere for pretty cheap. I plan on simply leaving a supply at work. My home power supply doesn't have to be beefy, it can just charge all night long.

Turnigy mega is 400w x2 (800 watts total).

Yes Turnigy mega is only 6s; I will have to deal with the hassle of having to attach a 6s cable to my batteries every time I charge. No I don't just ride 12s, I switch it up, I trail ride 12s, (well 6s lately) and I commute 18s, and go on joy rides in 24s.

Also your kingpan weighs 1200g, and Turnigy mega weighs 1500g that's only half a pound of difference assuming I leave a supply at work.
Turnigy mega kicks out 800w, kingpan= 360w.
Kingpan dimensions =170*90*63 and Turnigy 200*140*55* so turnigy is only 1 inch wider, 3 inches taller, and the same depth.
Turnigy charges two different batteries at a time, so much better for rc.

I considered the kingpan devries; I considered posting about how much I thought about getting it when you first mentioned it, it did look like a good deal, but it's just not what I was looking for. Maybe if I decide to do a cross country trip on my e-bike I will scoop up a kingpan. Thank you for your input.

 

[deVries]

Yes Turnigy mega is only 6s; I will have to deal with the hassle of having to attach a 6s cable to my batteries every time I charge. No I don't just ride 12s, I switch it up, I trail ride 12s, (well 6s lately) and I commute 18s, and go on joy rides in 24s.

To charge the 18s & 24s with a 2 x 6s charger? ... I guess this means you will be re-configuring these series packs to charge some in parallel. Man, that is a hassle to do that from 18s or 24s into 6s, but your last post just above reveals your an RC dude too.

Guess it's no biggie for you to change-up your packs just to charge at 2 x 6s (or more in parallel), then re-series into 18s/24s, since you're already into RC too.

You must have a unique setup on your bike to change your battery from 12s to 18s to 24s, or are you using a battery bag or ?

 

[parajared]

You must have a unique setup on your bike to change your battery from 12s to 18s to 24s, or are you using a battery bag or ?

You can just add little jumpers to your 24s cable to make it whatever voltage you want. 24s= four 6s battieries in series, to run 18s, or three 6s batteries in series you just add a jumper to where the fourth battery would have gone.

I have a picture of it here: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=42295

I also have a completely separate 6s parallel cable.

 

[parajared]

Ok, I got the power supply, but the regular power supply mod didn't work, you have to short two pins on a circuit together.

update: 9/21/12
power supply let out a big pop today. Big flash of light. I guess it didn't agree with running 50 amps after all. I found an even better deal on power supplies. I ended up getting a two for the price of one deal on a couple of used e-bay DPS-600PB 575 watt power supplies for $20 shipped. I plan on leaving one at the office and one at home. I find charging at 800w is unnecessary at the moment. I imagine there is a way to link the two together if I need that much power all at once. Or just make it easy on myself and charge using different cables. Here's a pic