How much better is a downhill mountain bike?

[EdwardNY]

I have been doing lots of off roading with my bike lately. Especially since I centered the battery pack and secured my hubmotor and torque arms.
My bike seems to be able to handle most dirt roads quite well. Big branches are always a problem and worry and rocks, especially the ones you can't see. I have been pushing my bike more and more off road and it seems to hold up very well. It is somewhat hard to believe that a downhill racing bike will be that much better.

My current full suspension bike is able to take jumps very well. Landing is very smooth and you can barely feel it. Riding at my current top speed of 30MPH is very smooth, and braking is also very good.

My bike cost around 900-1000 Euros when new, so I do not think it is a walmart special. But it is a 2006 model I believe. The bike feels pretty solid to me and I think it is built quite well. The frame is very strong, it even says on the frame " stiffest rear triangle", what ever that means. However, I do not have much experience with down hill racing bikes so I do not know what kind of performance I will get from them.

So my question is how much better will a downhill racing bike be? Will it be worlds of a difference riding off road? I know I will get more travel in both the front shocks and the rear shock. Will a downhill racing bike handle much better at higher speeds on road?

What about the hi-powered cycle bikes. Are they downhill racing bikes? The ones they use have large triangles to hold the batteries.

Can you recommend a downhill racing bike that makes a good e-bike conversion and can be found used at resonable prices. Are finding downhill bikes with larger triangles to fit batteries difficult?

Do you think a downhill racing bike is worth the upgrade from my bike? Assuming I will keep the bike 80% on road - 20% off road and want to push speeds of 40-50MPH onroad. Or should I just push my bike to the limits and upgrade when I finally break it? Unfortanetly in NYC where I live there are really no hard off road trails or mountains that I can really push the bike to its limits anyway.

Originally I thought I would get another bike and convert my bike back to a pedal bike. But today after I ran out of battery power and had to pedal a couple of miles, I realized that I do not want anything to do with pedaling again, and that was the reason why I converted to an ebike anyway. I honestly hate pedaling, its slow speed, lack of total fun of hill climbing, slow offroading etc. It just plain sucks to pedal.

Here is a pic of my current full suspension bike.

 

[mvly]

Your bike is not crap. It is just not made to handle 50mph safely. As for downhill, it really depends on which one your get. The most important factor is torque arm if you want to hit those high speeds safely.

 

[boostjuice]

A longer wheelbase and greater fork angle make DH/FR bikes feel more stable at high speeds (at the sacrifice of 'tight & fast' maneuverability). It's the geometry more than the added rigidity you will notice in comparison to your decent quality XC bike.

I have ridden several hi speed; dually XC e-bikes, a Freeride e-bike and a Yuba Mundo e-bike. If you've got the coin, a DH/FR bike is worth the coin if your doing greater than 30MPH speeds, but not an absolute necessity.

My 2c.

 

[EdwardNY]

Thanks for the reply, can you explain what exactly is tight & fast maneuverablility? Is this something that is bad to lose?

 

[wildharemtbkr]

Your bike looks decent, probably about 4 inches of travel per end, and sounds about perfect for your current uses. If you want to go faster the dh bike will handle the higher speeds better, longer wheelbase, slacker head angle, or more rake in motorcycle speak, bigger brakes, twice the travel, and a little heavier and stronger components make the dh bike better suited. The slow speed handling will suffer some due to those things just listed that make it better at speed. Tight and fast maneuverability are because of steeper head angle, shorter wheelbase and lighter weight. So back to the oft asked question of, better for what?

 

[dingoEsride]

Your bike looks fine as an e bike donor, a DH race has more suspension travel and greater fork rake as BJ mentioned and looks something like this

and then you can do stuff like this
[youtube]xIe6hYAdw_I[/youtube]
but strap that battery on tight

 

[EdwardNY]

If you had a downhill racing bike converted to an Ebike, wouldn't you want a motor with more torque than high speed?

 

[dingoEsride]

If you had a downhill racing bike converted to an Ebike, wouldn't you want a motor with more torque than high speed?

Yes to get you up that hill, have done my share of mtb group rides in the hills with hard climbs so to motor up would be a joy

 

[Drunkskunk]

DH bike can handle the high speeds better. But you lose low speed handling. at 30mph on the street you're at the cross over point where both bikes are good, but faster favors a DH, while slower favors the XC you have now. Off road, DH are realy meant to go Down hills. they aren't so good up hill as your sitting position is further back over the rear wheel. on uphill sections, a DH will tip backwards sooner. They are great for big air drops and jumps, and blasting down trails. The XC is better for Singletrack, trails, smaller jumps, and sections of trail where low speed percision is more important than being able to jump off a cliff.

I ride a Kona Stinky. Its an older design with a large open triangle. Ancient tech by modern DH standards but works great for me.

 

[Kingfish]

I have a DH frame (see my sig). The Front Fork has about 120mm of stock travel which is rarely experienced except in the extreme – like a pothole: Braking moderately hard, it might dip an inch – however it absorbs the road chatter just fine. The rear shock flexes more with a 150mm range.

Because I have a widish triangle pack, the turning radius when maneuvering in and out of my hovel or when parking in tight quarters is challenging, but on the road – not a problem. The question is: How slow are we talking about? Are we riding nimble in the technical groove between roots, rocks, and bracken, or during urban assault?

Example: There’s a spot on an infamous bike path that runs just past the Microsoft Studio Complex in Redmond that has like three deep puddles where the trail was poorly compacted and sank – not quite to the pothole level, but it could bounce you out of your seat if hit too hard: I like to weave between then without getting wet as a nimble challenge... at ¾ WOT The point: Maneuverability is about balance and the art of throwing your weight with precise skill that can only be gained through experience and marriage with your machine.

That said, I dislike taking my bike off-road, at least – with the trailer in tow. However, I bet you can glean enough from my explanation about parking to know the weak link in the design. The fact is – next time I disassemble the triangle pack I am going to move it back an inch to gain a few more degrees of arc at the front. The downside is that the Front Hub will slip a bit more, though perhaps the amount will be slight.

Regardless, I would never go back to a hardtail after riding in so much more comfort.

Good hunting, KF

 

[Haste]

im having a hard time deciding between a xc(all mountain full suspension) vs a dh bike.

on ebay, the xc is just a little cheaper, however most have almost the same suspension mm. Since you can get a newer xc at an older dh bike cost lol.

but I want to see a video of someone peddaling a dh bike up a step grade. they just look so hard to pedal! So I will rock the all mountain since i like to have a good range if my battery dies.

 

[kfong]

My DH versus is about 50 lbs, I would hate to pedal it. That's not even fitted with a motor yet, I have not bothered riding it until it's powered. It's built like a tank. Does not have the agility or turn radius as my XC bike. Here are pics of them side by side along with a DJ frame, which I thought was burly at the time. The DH is able to take on more speed and braking. I can pedal my XC, and often do since I usually push out my rides till empty.

http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=32963

 

[cal3thousand]

Sounds like pedaling-types should go towards geared motors and XC bikes

vs.

non-pedaling-types should go towards DH bikes and DD hubs.

I have a geared hardtail commuter for pedaling and a DD DH rig for blasting

 

[kfong]

Yep, that's a good way to look at it. I don't plan to pedal my DH bike much, at least not without power.

 

[Haste]

think a hardtail would kill ya at 30 mph for a 22 mile roundtrip commute?

 

[wildharemtbkr]

Depends on the road. And your back.

 

[Kingfish]

think a hardtail would kill ya at 30 mph for a 22 mile roundtrip commute?

Nope. Did that for a year. However - after a cross-country road trip it damn near crippled me. Subtle aches and pains really begin to manifest when you go beyond 50 miles. Ultimately that’s why I migrated over to FS DH. But if you want to save money and KISS, hardtail is fine fine.

Enjoy, KF

 

[Chalo]

Your profile says you live in NYC. Do you ride your bike in the street in NYC, or only on trails? I think a heavy, mushy, steering-floppy DH bike would be more of a liability in a city setting, but that also depends on what you're doing with it. If you ride it like a motorcycle, it would be a very light and nimble motorcycle.

But if you're often threading through obstacles and curb cuts, maneuvering up to sidewalk parking, negotiating parks crowded with peds, etc., you might miss the better dexterity of a more normal bicycle.

I think you're struggling with the inherent identity crisis of a bicycle that moves at motorcycle speeds. We have working paradigms for both bicycles and motorcycles, but they are not compatible. I say choose one of them, and get comfortable with all of its implications.

Chalo