How much power can the Cyclone motor take?

[StinkyGoalieGuy]

I'm referring to the motor that comes in 600w, 900w, 1200w kit forms (I know it's the same motor with different controller) , and now it looks like the 1600w version of the kit that comes with the Kelly controller. I still have the kit with the "1200 watt" controller. I'm running 16S3P A123 battery. Under no load, it puts out about 52 volts, 48 volts under peak loads with peak current at 40amps, and I see a little more than 1900watts. It gets slightly warm while using the heat sinks.

Everybody is hot rodding the GNG kit, but where's the love for the Cyclone motor? Anybody tried 72 volts with this motor? What about 48volts and a different controller for more amps?

 

[Gab]

I was reading on here about AFT who use the same motors as cyclone, and i think they are doing testing at 60v, and they have some high performance parts for the motors, like the big coolings fins cheeckybloke uses to handle the power here:

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=48110&start=25

 

[bose]

The Kelly controller that ships with the 1680W kit is 100A max for 10s. At that power level the motor gets very hot very quick (at least without extra cooling fins) so the stator is probably over saturated at that current level. Someone needs to do some testing to find out a good maximum current for this motor.

 

[andrenoites]

Right now I'm testing at 48v 50A 2400W peak, like the ego kit:

http://www.ego-kits.com/motor/

The ego is the same motor and the same controller

 

[StinkyGoalieGuy]

That's good to know. I didn't realize the that the Ego kits were allowing them to run at 50amps, 2400 watts. Are you using the Kelly controller as well?

Bose, running at 100A, 45V (4500 watts) is a big jump. Have you tried turning it down, limiting it to maybe 3000 watts? I wonder if it would still hit saturation.

I need to see if I can get my hands on either a Lyen or Kelly controller.

 

[andrenoites]

Yes I have a Kelly

At full throttle with 50A the engine cutoff with low voltage error. well I guess I have to tune up other parameters as well (still learning)

Right now I'm at 40A and the motor runs very nice

Any ideas?

This is the stock settings:
View attachment 4

 

[StinkyGoalieGuy]

You mentioned

At full throttle with 50A the engine cutoff with low voltage error

Do you have some kind of meter letting you know you hit 50A? If so, does it tell you what voltage you were at when you were at 50A? According to your second screenshot, you have under voltage set at 18V. In the description from that screenshot, it says "Controller will cut back current at battery voltage lower than 1.1x the value" I wonder if your battery dropped down to 18*1.1 = 19.8V. What kind of battery is it?

It looks like you can configure your current on the first screen shot with the "Max Motor Current" setting. You set it as a percentage of your controller rating. What's the rating on your controller? Of course if your battery is dropping to 19.8V at 50A, then cranking up the this setting is not going to help.

Of course this is all just based on what I read in your screenshots. I have no experience with that controller.

 

[bose]

That's good to know. I didn't realize the that the Ego kits were allowing them to run at 50amps, 2400 watts. Are you using the Kelly controller as well?

Bose, running at 100A, 45V (4500 watts) is a big jump. Have you tried turning it down, limiting it to maybe 3000 watts? I wonder if it would still hit saturation.

I need to see if I can get my hands on either a Lyen or Kelly controller.

I have turned it down to 40A and the motor does not get even close to as hot as it got at 100A. The original setting when I got the kit from Eclipsebikes was at maximum 100A, I got quite surprised myself. I have not used this setup very much, maybe just an hour of playing around in the woods.

A warning to you guys with the Kelly controller: it is not waterproof! Especially not the cable throughput so mount it with cables heading downwards even if you don't plan on getting it wet. I water filled my controller by letting some rain get onto the bike. Had to open the controller up and put it for 2.5h in the oven to dry out.

A warning is that th

 

[andrenoites]

You mentioned

At full throttle with 50A the engine cutoff with low voltage error

Do you have some kind of meter letting you know you hit 50A? If so, does it tell you what voltage you were at when you were at 50A? According to your second screenshot, you have under voltage set at 18V. In the description from that screenshot, it says "Controller will cut back current at battery voltage lower than 1.1x the value" I wonder if your battery dropped down to 18*1.1 = 19.8V. What kind of battery is it?

It looks like you can configure your current on the first screen shot with the "Max Motor Current" setting. You set it as a percentage of your controller rating. What's the rating on your controller? Of course if your battery is dropping to 19.8V at 50A, then cranking up the this setting is not going to help.

Of course this is all just based on what I read in your screenshots. I have no experience with that controller.

I'm running with 4 x 5000mah 6s Lipos in a 48V 10000mah setup without a meter (already ordered)
My controller is the 100A model from cyclonebikes.

I really don't think the voltage gets so low. I think the low voltage cutoff is related to the Max motor current and Max battery current setting and the relation between both.

I'm using now MAX motor Current at 80 and MAX Battery current at 40 (1/2 motor current) with good results (no cutoff).
I guess I have to learn more about these two parameters.

Any suggestion?

 

[StinkyGoalieGuy]

4 x 5000mah 6s

How do you have those 6S lipo packs setup? Do you have all 4 in parallel, or do you have 2 in series, and then you paralleize those two strings of 2 in series?

 

[andrenoites]

4 x 5000mah 6s

How do you have those 6S lipo packs setup? Do you have all 4 in parallel, or do you have 2 in series, and then you paralleize those two strings of 2 in series?

2 in series for 48V and then in paralel for 10000mah

 

[andrenoites]

I have turned it down to 40A and the motor does not get even close to as hot as it got at 100A. The original setting when I got the kit from Eclipsebikes was at maximum 100A, I got quite surprised myself. I have not used this setup very much, maybe just an hour of playing around in the woods.

A warning to you guys with the Kelly controller: it is not waterproof! Especially not the cable throughput so mount it with cables heading downwards even if you don't plan on getting it wet. I water filled my controller by letting some rain get onto the bike. Had to open the controller up and put it for 2.5h in the oven to dry out.

A warning is that th

Bose what settings are you using in max motor current and max battery current?
Does your motor cutoff if you twist throttle quickly?

 

[bose]

I can't remember my settings now and I'm not with the bike. But yes I had some cut outs too. I would need to log it too see what's happening. Maybe next week.

 

[andrenoites]

I can't remember my settings now and I'm not with the bike. But yes I had some cut outs too. I would need to log it too see what's happening. Maybe next week.

I will appreciate your help, my controller is cutting off at 25Amps

 

[StinkyGoalieGuy]

Did you ever get that meter installed so you can see what your voltage and current look like when the controller cuts out?

 

[andrenoites]

Did you ever get that meter installed so you can see what your voltage and current look like when the controller cuts out?

Yes I did, I received and installed the meter yesterday.
Usually it cuts off at 21Amp but if I let the motor rev up gentry and only apply full throttle at high revs I can get to 28Amps before the cutoff

 

[StinkyGoalieGuy]

Did you ever get that meter installed so you can see what your voltage and current look like when the controller cuts out?

Yes I did, I received and installed the meter yesterday.
Usually it cuts off at 21Amp but if I let the motor rev up gentry and only apply full throttle at high revs I can get to 28Amps before the cutoff

And what's your voltage at cut-off?

 

[andrenoites]

It cuts off at all voltages from 49,2V to 45V (max/min voltage I use in the 6s lipos)

At load the voltage sag is -0,04V

 

[StinkyGoalieGuy]

It cuts off at all voltages from 49,2V to 45V (max/min voltage I use in the 6s lipos)

At load the voltage sag is -0,04V

But is that 49.2 to 45 V what you are actually seeing on the meter at the time of cutoff, or are you making an assumption of what the voltage should be at cut off based on the battery specs, or some controller programming?

In order to help you debug this, we need a meter on the input to the controller (not output of battery) actually reading the volts it is really getting when the motor cuts out.

 

[andrenoites]

I'm measuring with a Turnigy wattmeter in the cable from the battery to the controller. Isn't this the right way to measure?

If you want I could make a specific test at a specific voltage and take note of the values.
Just say if you need more data

Tks

 

[chupa]

Hi all !!

I give to my cyclone motor 5500w !!!

But i use kelly KBS48121L,50A with enabled boost option (Up to 120a)
It is my second engine because first engine is dead after one week use with more than 4kw power. I not use heatsink.

Now i use active heat sink with fan.

If you use big capacities, magnets heat up above Curie point. After some time the magnets degauss. The motor loses forces. It is a cause of death of my first motor.

If you want to use motor for long time with power more than 4 kw it is necessary to upgrade the motor and to install active heat sink system.
Details here:
http://chupa-kupa.livejournal.com/3283.html

Sorry , my page in Russian , but you can use google translator for translate it.

 

[andrenoites]

Wow, nice work

To you have to put a switch to enable boost mode?
What is the max continuous current you get with that controller?

Tks,
Andre

 

[chupa]

Wow, nice work

To you have to put a switch to enable boost mode?
What is the max continuous current you get with that controller?

Tks,
Andre

The boost mode enable with switch between BRK_AN (2) signal and +5v . It multiply your max power*60%. Also you shuld enable Boost mode in configure software.


Note: The kelly controllers from cyclone site have not signal wire BRK_AN. This wire exists only in controllers from kelly site. But you can enable Boost in software for activate max power without connecting BRK_AN signal line to 5v. just enable Boost option in configure softw.


I have approx 70a continuous current from my KBS48121L.

 

[StinkyGoalieGuy]

Chupa, that is amazing!

I wonder if 3kW through the motor would be ok if just using the heat sinks on the body of the motor without drilling holes through it.

Chupa, have you ever tried that?

 

[andrenoites]

Wow, nice work

To you have to put a switch to enable boost mode?
What is the max continuous current you get with that controller?

Tks,
Andre

The boost mode enable with switch between BRK_AN (2) signal and +5v . It multiply your max power*60%. Also you shuld enable Boost mode in configure software.


Note: The kelly controllers from cyclone site have not signal wire BRK_AN. This wire exists only in controllers from kelly site. But you can enable Boost in software for activate max power without connecting BRK_AN signal line to 5v. just enable Boost option in configure softw.

I have approx 70a continuous current from my KBS48121L.

Doesn't your controller cut off with that current? It was supposed to give only 50Amp continuous.
Have you also modded the controller?
What are the batteries you are using?

Congratulations on your bike, nice work