ice sheet losses in Greenland and Antarctica reach new highs

D

dnmun

1 PW
Joined
Jun 9, 2008
Messages
16,181
Location
portland, or and loveland, co
i realize the resident rednecks will point to how this is also another commie conspiracy since it is done by europeans but documenting the huge increase in loss of glacial ice in Greenland and Antarctica:

http://www.esa.int/Our_Activities/Observing_the_Earth/CryoSat/Ice_sheet_highs_lows_and_loss
 
To me, if the only benefit to improving environmental aspects of our planet and reducing/eliminating CO2 output was overall improved health and lifespan of our species, that would seem like a good enough reason to care and an infallible one at that.
 
This appears to be an example of the lesson in my engineering communications class back in 1984. The lesson was that we should never take a particular conclusion as fact, but instead look all the way back to the raw information, methods of analysis, and the qualifications of the author of the conclusion. In other words, the context.

The example used back then in 1984 was a few papers concerning the models used for climate science and an article attempting to draw conclusions from the papers. The author had missed the point of the papers and drawn less than meaningful conclusions from them. The papers were helping refine predictive methods and were dealing with magnitudes of 100's in accuracy. The author of the article attempted to conclude that the values discussed in the papers were meaningful, when it was the 100X refinement in their accuracy that was the point being made.

This is the whole 'sky-is-falling' IPCC problem in a nutshell, when it was still just a tiny nutshell.

Looking at a review of the paper mentioned in the OP link, we find this:
http://www.the-cryosphere-discuss.net/8/C447/2014/tcd-8-C447-2014-print.pdf
The DEM and the elevation-change results are interesting as a demonstration that the methods, broadly speaking, worked, but are not analyzed here in enough detail to really give new insight into ice-sheet processes and dynamics.
Click to expand...
In other words, this isn't information from which generally meaningful conclusions can be drawn, except about the predictive models and methods.

This is a perfect example of the lesson from 1984; look all the way back to the raw data before you buy into a particular conclusion.
 
i cannot help you overcome your own ignorance since it is self induced.

there is the possibility that if the world acts soon to stop emissions we can keep the global temperature rise to less than a few degrees by leaving the energy resources in the ground for another century or two.

future generations will pay the price of the ignorant greed of our hyper consumption.

this article is from the nytimes:

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/27/science/earth/greenhouse-gas-emissions-are-growing-and-growing-more-dangerous-draft-of-un-report-says.html?emc=edit_th_20140827&nl=todaysheadlines&nlid=49600008&_r=0
 
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2738653/Stunning-satellite-images-summer-ice-cap-thicker-covers-1-7million-square-kilometres-MORE-2-years-ago-despite-Al-Gore-s-prediction-ICE-FREE-now.html
 
and what is so amazing with the ice myth is that the ocean levels have continued to rise in spite of it. the pacific ocean where the hurricane went ashore in the phillipines is 10.4" higher than before we won the second world war and decided the world was our free lunch and we would consume all the oil within a few decades.

when the Koch brothers started paying for this pseudo science newspaper stuff it was never assumed that they were paying to reform reality just as George Orwell envisioned.
 
Tabloids and Al Gore are interpreters that would definitely need to be checked all the way back to their data. To the best of my understanding, hotter temperatures in some places will release moisture into the air that will either fall as rain or snow somewhere else. The climate is very dynamic and its an exciting time for those who study it and we who benefit from understanding it better. We need to be continuously reconciling all the information, however, and not investing in unfounded political strategies for haphazardly 'fixing' inadequately defined 'problems'.

If we didn't have bureaucrats filtering our tax money into the research community, I'd be voluntarily contributing to the field. Climate science rocks, Al Gore and tabloids rot.
 
blaI find it difficult to believe that the Koch Brothers have so much power. It seems that the left has a boogey man now so they just blame everything on them. The problem is that all of the predictions from the left simply don't come true.

This was an interesting read. It is conservative so I am sure the Koch brothers are to blame. But let's face it, Gore did predict that the Ice could be gone by now:

Myth of arctic meltdown: Stunning satellite images show summer ice cap is thicker and covers 1.7million square kilometres MORE than 2 years ago...despite Al Gore's prediction it would be ICE-FREE by now
- Seven years after former US Vice-President Al Gore's warning, Arctic ice cap has expanded for second year in row
- An area twice the size of Alaska - America's biggest state - was open water two years ago and is now covered in ice
- These satellite images taken from University of Illinois's Cryosphere project show ice has become more concentrated

The speech by former US Vice-President Al Gore was apocalyptic. ‘The North Polar ice cap is falling off a cliff,’ he said. ‘It could be completely gone in summer in as little as seven years. Seven years from now.’

Those comments came in 2007 as Mr Gore accepted the Nobel Peace Prize for his campaigning on climate change.

But seven years after his warning, The Mail on Sunday can reveal that, far from vanishing, the Arctic ice cap has expanded for the second year in succession – with a surge, depending on how you measure it, of between 43 and 63 per cent since 2012.

To put it another way, an area the size of Alaska, America’s biggest state, was open water two years ago, but is again now covered by ice.

The most widely used measurements of Arctic ice extent are the daily satellite readings issued by the US National Snow and Ice Data Center, which is co-funded by Nasa. These reveal that – while the long-term trend still shows a decline – last Monday, August 25, the area of the Arctic Ocean with at least 15 per cent ice cover was 5.62 million square kilometres.

This was the highest level recorded on that date since 2006 ... and represents an increase of 1.71 million square kilometres over the past two years – an impressive 43 per cent.

Other figures from the Danish Meteorological Institute suggest that the growth has been even more dramatic. Using a different measure, the area with at least 30 per cent ice cover, these reveal a 63 per cent rise – from 2.7 million to 4.4 million square kilometres.

... as well as becoming more extensive, the ice has grown more concentrated, with the purple areas – denoting regions where the ice pack is most dense – increasing markedly.

Crucially, the ice is also thicker, and therefore more resilient to future melting.
Click to expand...
 
"In spite of Antarctica, global sea ice continues to decline"

"Examining the trends of sea ice - in both the Arctic Ocean and the waters surrounding Antarctica, including the seasonal waxing and waning they go through every year - scientists at NASA's Goddard Spaceflight Center found a distinct and not-unsurprising trend.

Despite the increases in sea ice seen around Antarctica, when looking at all sea ice combined, globally, there is a definite, steady decline."

Seen here:
http://www.theweathernetwork.com/news/articles/whats-up-climate-change-heat-goes-on-sea-ice-declines-cities-affect-storms/45852/
 
Ch00paKabrA said:
The most widely used measurements of Arctic ice extent are the daily satellite readings issued by the US National Snow and Ice Data Center, which is co-funded by Nasa. These reveal that – while the long-term trend still shows a decline – last Monday, August 25, the area of the Arctic Ocean with at least 15 per cent ice cover was 5.62 million square kilometres.
Click to expand...

So, this headline could be recast as "Ice-sheet coverage demonstrates variation about the mean".
 
It is ice MASS that counts....when looking for indication of continued warming. Global ice sheet mass, glacier mass and ocean warming all continue a warming trend.

Denialists will focus on sea ice because it has alot of variability year to year...making it easier to nit pic and cherry pick trend periods, etc.

Al Gore is NOT a climate scientist - actual trends have fallen within the stated IPCC projection ranges. Global warming is happening and accelerating.....it has enormous inertia and a 50 year time lag.......we are in trouble.
 
Hey guys,

I certainly believe that fracking, drilling, mining and even that aside, just the use of the sequestered fuels is ridiculously dangerous at our current consumption rates.
I believe US is one of the biggest offenders (Us is actually #1 with alot of bad stuff surprisingly lol)

My long term goal is to simplify and drop alot of unnecesary expenses, get a piece of country land, and raise my family offgrid- the most responsible way I can. Generating our own income, energy, food, etc, while having a simpler life away from the 'rat race'.

[youtube]uoyVSsfLlxE[/youtube]
These people (I actually went crosscountry and had dinner with them after I first saw their video) are what I strive to be like, within my own 'flavor'. Truly inspirational to me. A little money and some 'old fashioned' work goes along way when you disconnect from all those recurring costs that aren't needed. And go figure, a byproduct of not being in the 'race' is not needing to be anymore.

Anyway is it possible that something is going on with climate change/ global warming that is bigger than what we learn from mainstream? I've heard and seen additional viewpoints that has broadened my own on the subject. [youtube]wY7b4jt6X2k[/youtube] Here's what a quick search provided there is loads more, it's such a shame that so much of it goes into globalwarming debunking terrority which I feel is dividing and counterproductive. Even if there is alternative evidence that other things may be happening independent from co2 warming, it still doesn't mean we don't need to be more conservative in our usage of natural resources. It's the same with dems/repubs- arguing over unimportant things when they should be finding things to agree on and coming together to move forward. Instead we see all this polarizing going on, which is counterproductive.
 
gogo said:
To the best of my understanding, hotter temperatures in some places will release moisture into the air that will either fall as rain or snow somewhere else.
Click to expand...

Ah, but where is that 'Somewhere else?' Is it out over the ocean, where it does the land lubbers no good? Does it cause the air of the offshore flow to become drier, creating Desertification? Time to get right back to the real meaning of 'Climate Change.' The important understanding is of Chaos Theory, where the results are influenced by seemingly unrelated data. Sometimes we don't know why the opposite effect takes place.
 
no, YOU don't know.

your ability to understand is blocked by your need to be part of the mental construct created to support white supremacy after the civil war during reconstruction.

that is why evolution is such an ungodly and evil construction of the communists in your view.

global warming is just more of the commie plot to turn you into a slave of the russian empire in your mental structure.

it is not possible to understand reality because you cannot live without the foundation on which all of your misconceptions are founded.

the drought in california does not exist to you. it is just another commie plot.
 
Dauntless said:
The important understanding is of Chaos Theory, where the results are influenced by seemingly unrelated data.
Click to expand...

Kinda like the way dnmun's post is somehow the result of yours but seems completely unrelated?
 
Dauntless said:
Ah, but where is that 'Somewhere else?' Is it out over the ocean, where it does the land lubbers no good? Does it cause the air of the offshore flow to become drier, creating Desertification? Time to get right back to the real meaning of 'Climate Change.' The important understanding is of Chaos Theory, where the results are influenced by seemingly unrelated data. Sometimes we don't know why the opposite effect takes place.
Click to expand...
Where? Here, in New England is one place. I'll try again to have ypedal restore the deleted 2013 thread :?: since I had posted a good map and data comparing East and West coast America. This past Winter was a testament to the increasing precipitation here. And its every bit as damaging to agriculture as a drought is. Fungus and all kinds of invasive species, etc.
 
No ice loss here on east coast of Canada, heaviest ice in 30 yrs, colder then normal, record snow, late spring, so no global warming here. I believe the climate is changing, always has and there is nothing we can do about it, so drill baby drill.
We need fracking, but too many tree huggers in NS.
 
Hehe... perhaps global "warming" is not the best descriptor, but global "climate change"?
 
LockH said:
Hehe... perhaps global "warming" is not the best descriptor, but global "climate change"?
Click to expand...

Of course it is. Global temperatures have been increasing. It's not the scientists's fault if people can't tell the difference between local weather and the global climate. There is nothing like arrogant people to keep spouting nonsense despite not knowing a thing about what they are talking about.

[youtube]CCXC1tOCB0I[/youtube]
 
How to tell if global warming is true, if Obama said it is, then it must be a lie, that's what I use as a yard stick he he.
 
dnmun said:
no, YOU don't know.

your ability to understand is blocked by your need to be part of the mental construct created to support white supremacy after the civil war during reconstruction.

that is why evolution is such an ungodly and evil construction of the communists in your view.

global warming is just more of the commie plot to turn you into a slave of the russian empire in your mental structure.

it is not possible to understand reality because you cannot live without the foundation on which all of your misconceptions are founded.

the drought in california does not exist to you. it is just another commie plot.
Click to expand...

You'll never convince the nutters, they refuse to read any real data or reports. Instead they fuel themselves with blind reports from glitzy TV news. If it's not reduced to simple sound bites it's not absorbed. Any idiot can look at the dollars KOCH and their ilk pound into elections. Follow the money and the election results. But then that takes the ability to read, something lost on the nay sayers. Statements like "it was colder this winter, where is global warming.." only demonstrate a deeper ignorance. Dude, my wife 3rd grade science class were smarter and had higher reading comprehension.
 
LockH said:
Hehe... perhaps global "warming" is not the best descriptor, but global "climate change"?
Click to expand...

Better, Yes. Environmental Degradation would be even better. The world isn't sick because it's getting hotter. The world is getting hotter because it's sick.

Global warming is a symptom of a sick ecosystem. We can foolishly spend all our time and resources trying to cure a symptom, or we can go after the root causes of the failing of our ecosystem as a whole. Cut pollution. Cut waste. Invest in alternative energy sources. Teach people to live more responsibly.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top