Early this summer I completed my commuter bike project. A twentyfive year old MTB, Giant Karokorum. I put the Crystalyte Journey kit on it with the 36v Nimh battery pack. It works great for my twenty mile commute to work. Takes me about one hour and fifteen to twenty minutes each way and an average speed between 15 and 16 mph with me peddaling some all the way - more on the hills. Like everyone here, now I want more power and speed! What can I do....getting another 36v Nimh is the easiest but pretty much unavailable. Also would be less expensive. Would a 48v lifepo4 give me the speed and power I want? Does anyone have a setup like this that can tell me about top speed? Now I have a top speed without pedaling on a full charge of about 18mph and it goes down from there. By the time I get to work the top speed without pedaling is more in the 13-14mph range. the lifepo4 I am thinking about is a Ping 48v 16mah and with that I would keep my existing controller for the journey kit 24-48v / 20amp. I'm open to any thoughts of improving my ride.
Just another newbie Crystalyte 408
- Thread starter njander
- Start date
Ypedal
100 TW
A small 12v nimh boost pack to bring you into the 48v range would be a cheap upgrade ( will need 12v nimh charger for the boost pack !! )
Or go for the works and get a Lithium.. !! :wink:
Welcome to the forum btw !!
Or go for the works and get a Lithium.. !! :wink:
Welcome to the forum btw !!
Rassy
1 MW
njander wrote:
Welcome to the forum. Your top speed should be proportional to your voltage increase, so if it goes 18 MPH on 36V it should approach 24 MPH on 48V. Plus you will get better acceleration and better hill climbing ability. As Y suggested you could try a 12V pack in series to test it out, but one of the draws of a healthy (20 AH) LiFePO4 is the way it delivers about the same power throughout the discharge cycle.
A
Anonymous
Guest
.
njander said:
Try to find out what the FETs are rated to... if I remember right those 48v controllers usually have 60v FETs in them, which would allow you to get away with 54v... couple of 18v tool pack batteries in series with your 36v would get you there in style.
dogman dan
1 PW
Lifepo4 is sweet for sure. The lack of voltage sag is very nice. BTW there is some voltage sag in a Ping battery, but not enough to care about. Do get one that delivers at least 20 amps rated since the rated amperage is the one that will give you the most cycles. Generally that is at least the 20ah size. You won't regret the extra range, trust me on that. One thing about the Pings though, is they generally need to bypass the bms to run the big chrystalite motors, so If you are jonesing for 30 mph or more, you need the A123 lifepo4, or the Lifebatts or something that can go more than 2c discharge rates. So between the extra volts, and less voltage sag, a Ping battery should get you very close to 25mph.
Once you have the lifepo4, you won't be worried about efficiency so much. If you need 30 mph, a Wilderness energy brushed hub will go close to 30 mph at 48v. And you could put the old motor and batteries on another bike, to sell or keep.
Once you have the lifepo4, you won't be worried about efficiency so much. If you need 30 mph, a Wilderness energy brushed hub will go close to 30 mph at 48v. And you could put the old motor and batteries on another bike, to sell or keep.
Sacman
10 kW
nutsandvolts said:
Are you sure? When I emailed Justin at ebikes.ca and asked him if it was safe for the controller to upgrade the battery on the C'lyte Journey kit from 36v/9.6Ah NiMh to a 48v 15Ah/LiFeP04 he said it should be okay for the 408 motor but that the 406 motor would most likely pull too many amps from the LiFePO4 batt and blow up the controller.
BTW njander ... if you do upgrade from 36v to 48v or higher and you want to keep the LED lights on the throttle working properly you can either buy a 48v throttle or just put a 12v resistor (or was it zener diode) in series with the old 36v throttle.
dogman dan
1 PW
I'm a gonna just keep beating this horse till it's dead. To keep the duct tape, like Pings, batteries happy, you need to draw less than 20 amps most of the time. Justin is no fool, he knows what he talks about. Keep the same motor and go 48v Ping, or get a big motor, and some other type of battery, like A123's or whatever can take the load. Unless you want to have your lithium not last as long as it should. In that case, go ahead and cook one. I'm flirting with it myself since I have a 35 amp controller. I am dealing with the issue by putting a big front crank on the bike so I can actually push the motor, lowering the amp draw at full speed.
Drunkskunk
100 GW
72 volts should do it. yes. you'll need a 72 volt, 30 amp or greater controller and batteries than can handle delivering 30 amps or more.
steveCA
10 mW
I'm running a CLyte Phoenix Cruiser... commuting 20 miles RT to work, with no re-charging at work. I'm using Ping Lifepo4s, two 48v 15ah units slung low on either side of the front axle, wired in parallel, using a big Shotsky. I make my run pretty much flat out, with much up and down hill. I can take the toughest hill at 25mph on the way up, and 33 - 35 mph on the way down. I weigh about 230. The bike rolls along at 30 mph on the flat. On the uphill, I've observed a 2.4KW pull (DrainBrain unit)from the battery packs. I've got 650 miles on the setup so far, with no problems at all to report. I've ridden it 30 miles before the voltage begins to drop dangerously. At the end of my 20 mile commute, and at rest, the voltage still reads 52v. Using two packs, DOD does not go below 60%, and I have never tripped the BMS LVC on that run.
I've had a couple of different ebike arrangements, and I like this one best so far.
SteveCA
I've had a couple of different ebike arrangements, and I like this one best so far.
SteveCA
dogman dan
1 PW
Thanks for the post, I'd wondered how much Ping battery it would take to run a big Chrystalite motor. Now we know, about 30 ah. No way did I think a 20 could handle it without stressing the cells, and 40 ah of 48v would be getting pretty heavy. Cool.
I've got the same motor as you njlander, and I've tried using 36V NiMh. I got around 28kph or 17.5mph, so pretty much the same as you. At 42V, I get around 32kph or 20mph. At 48V, I get around 36kph or 22.5.
I started out running 42V but that was too slow so I added more cells. I think you'd be happy at 48V.
I started out running 42V but that was too slow so I added more cells. I think you'd be happy at 48V.
Johnbear
10 kW
I have a brand new 36v Journey NiMH pack that I would sell with the 36v 2a charger for $375.00
Without the charger $295. Would be a good pair if you want to go to 72v!
Without the charger $295. Would be a good pair if you want to go to 72v!
I did exactly the same. I got a 48v Ping battery. My 36-48V, 20A crystalyte controller couldn't handle the extra voltage and it fried. Even thought I had been using that controller with a 48V NiMh pack with not problems, a 48v LiFEPO4 has higher voltage than a 48v NiMh. So if you really want a LiFePo4, be ready to upgrade the controller too.njander said:
Sacman
10 kW
jha07 said:
njander said:
Hi Njander,
I can tell you for certain...your Crystalyte Journey controller and 408 motor will work fine at 48v. Me and Dee Jay are members of this forum who (just like you) started out with the Crystalyte Journey kit (36v 10ah NiMH battery and 408 motor). We both upgraded to 48v Lithium batteries and both our controllers are running fine. Neither of ours have fried. Technically, my 48v LiFePO4 battery puts out 53.6v at full charge and Dee Jay's A123 battery puts out 52v.
I'm not sure if the "36-48V, 20A crystalyte controller " that jha07 fried is a regular Crystalyte controler or a Crystalyte Journey controller. The Journey controller that me, you and Dee Jay have look like this:
I've been running 48v for almost 2 months now on my commuter ebike that I use at least 5 days a week, 15 miles each day. Dee Jay has been running 48v even longer than me. My top speed is about 23mph on flat, level ground with no pedaling... faster with pedaling. I've got lots of long, steep hills where I live and I used to work moderately hard and work thru my gears to pedal up these hills at 12mph at 36v. Now with 48v I make the same climbs up the same hills at 19mph with mild pedal work on my highest gear. 8)
Like you I wanted to get my top speed to 30mph and was also considering getting a 406 motor...but I wasn't sure if our controller could handle the extra load. So posted the question and you can read the results here http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5898
I actually got an answer from Justin Le saying we should be fine but to not throttle too hard when the bike is at or near dead stop since during those times the current will spike high and could damage the controller.
dogman dan
1 PW
Musta had a funky fet or cap in it. A 36v sla charger puts out 43.5 v and a lifepo4 36v charger 44.5. A controller that can't take 3 or 4 extra volts wasn't right to begin with. Plenty o controllers fry for no particular reason.
Well, it's not really just 3-4 extra volts. My controller was really intended for 36V. Using it at 48V is stretching it to it's limits. A fully charged 48V lifepo4 is over 60V. I checked with ebikes, where I got the controller, and was told those fets break down around 55V. The fets in there are IRF3205.dogman said:
My controller definitely isn't from a journey kit. This is the exact one I have. http://www.ebikes.ca/store/photos/C3620SI.jpg
So if the journey controller doesn't use IRF3205. You might be ok.
Johnbear
10 kW
The Crystalyte controllers must vary, mine runs 48v with no problems on a 406.
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