Making A Distance Trike, I just might go SLA

[Blueshift]

Before you die of shock, allow me to explain. Lithium is expensive, plus it isn't as straight forward as SLA is when it comes to charging while riding. (solar or generator)

I am thinking about doing a tricycle and throw some SLA batteries in the cargo or lower-mid frame and have a generator charge the batteries while i ride. The generator will only charge batteries and not actually power the electric hub motor. I am thinking about doing it 48v but I'm not sure on how many amp hours would have good synergy with charging it via generator. Harbor Freight sells those tiny generators that peak 900watts/700 running watts. If my electric motor is 500-750 watts, Wouldn't this vastly increase my range?

I'm looking at this one for only $124.00
http://www.harborfreight.com/900-peak700-running-watts-2-hp-63cc-2-cycle-gas-generator-epacarb-60338.html

and here is a 2pack battery pack.. might pick up two of these two-packs for 48v-22ah.
http://www.sears.com/upg-12v-22ah-6fm22-6-fm-22-sealed/p-SPM11543874419#

So I am guessing I would need a 48v charger? like 1-2 amps?

I imagine the weight wont be as bad on a tricycle. Doesn't need to feel like a mountain bike as long as its classified as a bike. Shoot I wouldnt mind putting front and rear suspension on it either.

 

[SlowCo]

Why use an ICE engined generator to charge SLA batteries while riding that power the electric motor? It might then be wiser to just make an ICE powered trike.

 

[Blueshift]

Why use an ICE engined generator to charge SLA batteries while riding that power the electric motor? It might then be wiser to just make an ICE powered trike.

Because an ice powered bike in my area requires a motorcycle license, registration, etc.
If i charge the battery with a gas generator, it will still be classified as a bicycle. Its as simple as that.
If there was no such entity as the state, then yes, I would make a full gas bike for longer distances.

 

[gogo]

Why use an ICE engined generator to charge SLA batteries while riding that power the electric motor? It might then be wiser to just make an ICE powered trike.

Because an ice powered bike in my area requires a motorcycle license, registration, etc.
If i charge the battery with a gas generator, it will still be classified as a bicycle. Its as simple as that.
If there was no such entity as the state, then yes, I would make a full gas bike.

Also, having a high percentage of the weight as low as it can be can help counteract the fleshy weight that's up high.

I agree that lithium batteries still aren't as commodity as SLA. SlA doesn't make much sense for two-wheelers, but using their weight strategically on trikes is very different. Heck, SLA can still make sense for bikes when you want to discourage thieves and limit theft losses.

 

[Hillhater]

....... SlA doesn't make much sense for two-wheelers, but using their weight strategically on trikes is very different. Heck, SLA can still make sense for bikes when you want to discourage thieves and limit theft losses.

That is a terrible justification for using SLAs !...hauling unecessary weight is just wasting energy.
But If you want weight to deter theft, use bricks.....they are cheaper !
Lipo is not as expensive as you may think if you consider actual usable AHrs, and total lifespan.

 

[LockH]

" Lithium is expensive"... Perhaps to purchase, but consider cost per mile over the (longer) life of (lighter weight) lithium-based chemistries. The other cost that had dropped significantly in recent years is silicone-based solar cells. See "thin film" solar panels. And you might configure the trike as "recumbent" style which also seems to be enjoying some popularity these days.

Define "distance" please? Land topography? Many/much hills up/down around you? And trips on smooth pavements?

In another ES thread you said "Velomobiles sit too low"?

To see? Or be seen? I'm currently riding/sold on "recumbent" but mount a 6ft. tall, thin plastic rod as my "flagpole" flying thin strips of yellow plastic flapping "CAUTION" tapes 4-6 feet long. And with a flashing light on top as well.

 

[flippy]

Before you die of shock, allow me to explain. Lithium is expensive, plus it isn't as straight forward as SLA is when it comes to charging while riding. (solar or generator)

I am thinking about doing a tricycle and throw some SLA batteries in the cargo or lower-mid frame and have a generator charge the batteries while i ride. The generator will only charge batteries and not actually power the electric hub motor. I am thinking about doing it 48v but I'm not sure on how many amp hours would have good synergy with charging it via generator. Harbor Freight sells those tiny generators that peak 900watts/700 running watts. If my electric motor is 500-750 watts, Wouldn't this vastly increase my range?

I'm looking at this one for only $124.00
http://www.harborfreight.com/900-peak700-running-watts-2-hp-63cc-2-cycle-gas-generator-epacarb-60338.html

and here is a 2pack battery pack.. might pick up two of these two-packs for 48v-22ah.
http://www.sears.com/upg-12v-22ah-6fm22-6-fm-22-sealed/p-SPM11543874419#

So I am guessing I would need a 48v charger? like 1-2 amps?

I imagine the weight wont be as bad on a tricycle. Doesn't need to feel like a mountain bike as long as its classified as a bike. Shoot I wouldnt mind putting front and rear suspension on it either.

there are so many problems with this idea i don't know were to begin.

running a ICE to charge SLA is just stupid to begin with, SLA only stores 60% of the energy that goes into them and you will kill them with the charging current and voltage and it takes effing ages to charge them at all. i'll be impressed if you get more then 100 cycles out of them before they are dead.

buying a pack with some quality lipo cells with a suitable charger is MUCH simpler (just plug it in and wait an hour), less heavy, more reliable and simply much cheaper to run and maintain.
i am willing to bet that if you replace the weight of that horrible fright generator with lipo cells you can bike for 300miles or more.


there are a great many things wrong with this idea and without fleshing them all out i recommend looking for people that did a simmilair "hybrid" solution and see how it ended up. i'll bet you you will not find any that had a positive experience if you can find any at all.

 

[DrkAngel]

For occasional long distance use I would recommend a small trailer with smallest 4 cycle generator available.
A TRE (Towable Range Extender) is the optimal add-on for unlimited range.
I recommend a generator with continuous output equal to motors required input.
Multiple power supplies to convert 110AC to 54V DC (2 x 350w 48V MeanWells?)

As for using SLA ...
See - LiPo vs SLA

See - eCar Hybridization
Explains various eVehicle conversions with auxiliary ICE (Internal Combustion Engine) support. Same concept for eTrike.

 

[flippy]

why even use a ICE on a trailer? would a aditional battery pack with capable charger not be more effective? last time i checked you can find more power plugs beside the road then gas stations.
put a high end 280W panel on the top of the trailer and you can run virturally without any support from mains electricity or dragging fuel along.

 

[dogman dan]

Welcome to the shark tank.

I have to agree, if the funds are there, its much more elegant to just have a large lithium battery. I devote way too much money to it myself, budgeting at least 5-700 bucks each year for some fresh battery. This maintains me with at least 80-100 miles range riding slow, and 40-50 mile range riding 20-25 mph.

However, many people, usually not people interested in forums, do exactly what you are planning. It works. It keeps it legal technically. It's fairly affordable. the SLA does not have to store any of the energy really, at some point it's just kind of flowing through it almost like a capacitor. In fact, the idea would work with just enormous capacitors.

One better approach to this, is to have two chargers. One is a normal 2 amps lead charger, this one stays at home, to top off the lead when you get home. The other is much more powerful, and fairly expensive. 48v 10 amps or so. This is 500 watts, enough power to go about 20 mph. It's just about the kind of load a tiny 900w generator likes. Gennies hate to have too small a load, and too large a load makes them run louder, and wear out faster.

With this setup of generator and big charger, you can then run indefinitely, even with a very small 12 ah sla pack. If you are going to pack that heavy ass, stinky, generator, then you may as well not carry a really heavy sla pack.

But,,, Before you jump. Think about solar. You can also cruise indefinitely on about 200w of solar panel. Slower yes, but for well under $500 you can set up a solar canopy shading you as you ride. it will be lighter, and NO STINK.

Your generator idea may not work as affordably as you thought, because of the charger cost. You will vibrate cheapo chargers to death on the road, and a satiator is not cheap. Other higher amps on board chargers are not cheap either. But you could get by with an affordable 5 amps charger, mounted in such a way that it vibrates as little as possible, and perhaps strengthened inside with potting of some kind. This is only 250w though, so infinite range would require a slower ride.

You still might want to buy a generator. They are damn handy to have around. Whether it's an ice storm, or a summer outage, when the shit hits the fan the only smart guy on the block pulls out his generator, and still has basic shit like his fridge running. And on a road trip by car or truck, you can plug in your ebikes when way out in the sticks, miles from any plugs.

Honestly, the best solution to me seems to be the solar set up first. Then still have the generator as a back up you would use only when the solar can't do the job. And it's still handy as hell when the grid goes down.

You also have the option of starting out cheap, 12 ah sla, 900w gennie, and a 5 amps sla charger. Then, as you can afford it, add solar. Perhaps only 50w to start, then 50 more. and so on.