Mongoose Blackcomb Build

[yopappamon]

So the wife is out of town this weekend, the daughter and son are in Las Vegas at the Star Trek convension. I just found out that the Mountain to Sea trail goes farther up the mountain that I had thought. The wind is still blowing the cool air in off the ocean, high of around 75 degrees. What better day to go up the hill and see where it leads. I've been wanting to stretch the battery pack, see if I can get the bms to kick in. I looked at google to see there everything went, printed out a map, took my bifocals just in case.

I get to where the trail goes through Peters Canyon Regional Park, and on the map there are two trails, one paved, the other dirt. Hmmm, the paved one is gated off, with no access. Well, I've came this far lets check the dirt one out. It starts out not to bad, lots of sand in places. I get a ways in and figure out I really shouldn't be on this path with a comfort bike. I mean it's nothing compared to what some of you do, but this frame just doesn't like bumps and all the sand. I'm finding out just how 'flexable' this frame is. No wonder it felt unsafe at 25mph. I make the 3 - 4 mile trail at about 7-10mph. On the way down the hill, I took the road. 27.7 mile round trip.



Here are the power stats. To begin with, I should mention that I forgot to charge the bike after my last commute home (6.5 miles, usually about 3.25 ah). I plug it in long enough to get 1ah back into the 36v, 20ah thundersky pack. So I'm starting out with around 17.75-18ah's.

My odometer says 27.73miles, imapmyride says 27.3 . 600 feet elevation change. At the end of the ride, the pack reads 38.53v, used 13.385ah / 499.5wh. If I factor in the ah's used on my last commute that I didn't get recharged, that's a total of 15.5 ah. Not bad and still have 38.5v. The cells stayed very well balanced: 3.21, 3.22, 3.21, 3.20, 3.21, 3.20, 3.21, 3.22, 3.21, 3.22, 3.21, 3.21

So lately I've been eyeing the Mongoose Blackcomb that some of you have and that can be had at Wallyworld for under $300. If I just ordered that bike, what would I tell SWMBO? What would be my reason / excuse to have another bike? I've been wondering if a more rigid frame would let me get more speed without feeling like I need body armour and a prayer book. My commute is 6.5 miles each way, all bike lanes beside multilane city streets, 35 / 45/ 60 mph speed limits. Good to excellent pavement. I'm in Orange County CA, so I ride every day to work (probably 10+ months a year). So my excuse is going to be these type of long, hilly rides, sometimes on dirt, and my current frame just cant handle it.

So now that the excuse is in place, I need help on what to get. I'm thinking top speed of 30 mph or less. Full suspension (do I really need or want that on pavement?).

My thoughts are the Mongoose Blackcomb, either a standard 9c 7x9 hub at 48v or a 6 x 10 wye delta mod'ed. Batteries? Maybe remount the thundersky's, maybe something that could be formed to the frame better. Front / rear hub? not sure. depends on the frame and if it has steel forks.

Budget? Let's say under $800. If I say that , I'll probably not spend over $1000. Ok realistically, $1500
I have several controllers, a throttle or two, so I'm set for the misc pieces.

What would you recommend? Give me ideas.

 

[dogman dan]

Tell the wife the faster speeds of the ebike are wearing out spokes and rims. You need the suspension to not break down out on the road. You won't be lying. The same thing applies to the frame needing to be stronger to be safe at the speeds you are going with the extra weight of the motor and battery.

Worked fine on my wife, but she's a gem.

 

[FMB42]

I tell my wife that my expensive hobbies (ebikes, RC models, motorcycles, audio, etc, etc) just don't leave me enough time to bother her as much as I'd like...

Works like a charm.

 

[wheelbender6]

You brought back memories of riding up and down Camelback Mountain on my Univega in the 80's. We did everything the hard way back then.

 

[yopappamon]

The wife just called from back east. The conversation went something like this:
Me: So I'm thinking about building another bike...
Her: why do you want to do that?
Me: I want a more sturdy frame so I can go faster.
Her: I thought you didn't like going faster?
Me: Thats because my current frame is too flimsy for faster.
Her: oh, ok. We're getting ready to go to the beach and I wanted to call and see how you were.

She's great. That's what 29.25 years of marriage does for you.

So Dogman, does the blackcomb have al or steel front dropouts?

 

[LI-ghtcycle]

Yeah, I like Dogman's method. I never knew what I was missing until I had a nice rigid framed bike, Cro-Mo is your friend! I can see why many talk about feeling uncomfortable at higher speeds, when they have frames that flex.

I know there are plenty of decent newer aluminum frames out there too, but I'd rather not be the guy with the $1000+ aluminum framed bike discovering the bad way that it's not built strong enough to carry E-Bike weight!

Wasn't there someone who has some form of nice newer Kona that literally had the frame brake in half because of too much weight?

 

[DAND214]

yopappamon, my BlackComb has an aluminum fork. Had a 24v 500w Conhis rear hub and ran just over 30mph on 48v. About 24 on 36v. I put the hub on a Schwinn S-60 from Target and am more comfortable at higher speeds around 35 on it than my Goose. Also I didn't like the rear disc brakes on the Goose as the rear disc didn't do as much as the rim brakes I went to. Nice smooth ride, just needs more work I guess.
Dan

 

[yopappamon]

Thanks Dan,
What do you think makes the schwinn better at high speed? Are all the blackcombs al forks?

 

[DAND214]

I don't know if all Blackcombs are aluminum, at least mine is. As for the Schwinn I didn't mean to say it's better, it just seems to fit better. I loved the Goose and disliked the schwinn untill I switched the hubs. Don't take it wrong the Goose is a great ride and as sson as I get time to switch the motor out I am. I have a Cute hub on it now and I like the smooth ride but miss the hard power of the DD hub. i am planning on putting a crystalyt 406/4011 in the near future. This will give me both speed and low end pulling power as needed. i have too many bikes and it's hard to choose, one day it's one then it's another. You have one then it's 2 and after 10 I ran out of fingers and I don't wear sandles so that is enough :lol: I am sure you will love the Mongoose, it's a great ride.
Dan

 

[yopappamon]

<rant>
I ordered a Mongoose Blackcomb from Walmart on Sunday evening.
It shipped yesterday.
Showed up today.
I had it shipped to work so someone was there to accept it. I look down the hall at the front door and FedEx is there, my bike box is there, and guy from the front of the office is signing for it. I walk up front just as the FedEx guy leaves, look at the box and it's upside down and the bottom flap is completely loose, it's been opened and only God know is if everything is still inside! WTF, Bill! Did you even look at the box before you signed for it! It's wide open! Bill says ' Oh, didn't see that, the guy was hiding it from me'.

It looks like everything is there, but how the hell do I know until I put it together. None of the instructions or manuals have anything to do with this bike specifically, they are all generic. Well, I have two peddles, two wheels, a seat, a frame, a fork, handle bars, and a generic manual. I guess that's everything.
</rant>

Steel rear dropouts, aluminum front. Decent looking wheels, Cheap ass tires. I like the look of those Hookworms, I might try them.

 

[yopappamon]

It seems like it has taken forever to get all the parts in. But the build is starting to take shape.

The rear trunk will hold 20 NiMH F cells, with space for another 10. The front saddle bags will each hold 10. I'm kind of proud of the concept with the front saddle bags (execution not so much). I found those cheap Bell handle bar bags at Dicks Sporting Good for $14 each. Bent a strip of aluminum into a kind of omega shape. Tapped holes in the sides and bottom of the strip to bold the bags to. Sheets of pvc and a heat gun to make the battery boxes that go inside. A sheet of pvc with bent up edges in the back bag, tie wraps passed under and back up to hold the batteries in place. A couple of screws down into the bag base to hold it all together.

Right now it looks like the Lyen controller will go on top of the rear bag with all connectors inside the front of the bag. Between the front bags, a small plastic box with 5 clicky switches mounted on it. This will be for turning on lights, maybe controller enable.



View attachment 5

 

[icecube57]

I always make stuff disappear so the misses cant say I keep buying stuff and have it collect dust in the garage and blowing our money. I do sell some stuff to buy some stuff. It dampens the hit but it makes it appear that I never used any "more" money to begin with. Or i set up a 85% true story/reasoning leaving out the 15% in crucial details so that when something somes in the mail its a justified package delivery. I hate explaining why 100+ bucks is gone when I pop a controller.

 

[dogman dan]

I used to have two of those same bell bags on my bike as panniers. Each one held a 24v 8 ah nicad pack perfect. They held up well except for the zippers, and I had to replace one. They are just right for those F cells.

I gotta get off my butt, and get my blackcomb electrified. Iv'e been running my other mongoose all summer, since it was ready to ride as is. I really beat the snot out of it, so it's gotta go by next summer.

 

[yopappamon]

It's alive!.

The wye delta rewire worked. Only had a couple issues. Had to program the lvc to match the 48v pack (controller is 72v 12 fet from Lyen). The throttle power pins were reversed, I had to sort out the hall pins to match Lyens controller. I made that more difficult than it should have been, I couldn't figure out how they came out of the connector. Figured that out eventually. My diy ebrake made from a reed switch and magnet are open on braking, wrong.

Man that wheel turns fast. Test drive tomorrow.

I just need to move the rear brake from the other bike and figure out a way to make the ebrakes work. Can a pull up resistor be done with this?

 

[yopappamon]

Successful test ride. Liking the new frame. The bent over is going to take getting used to. But the handling is great, balance is so much better than the last bike. I love the rear suspension.

Got up to 30 mph, the frame felt really solid. I have the watt meter up front and used somewhat light wire, so my volts dropped to just over 42 at higher amps. I can probably pick up some speed with heavier wire, and allowing more amps out of the controller. Right now I have it set lower to not stress the batteries.

 

[yopappamon]

Wye delta rewire
View attachment 6



View attachment 4



Still have pedal left at 20+ mph


Shrink wrapped NiMh F cells
View attachment 1

JB welded reed switch and magnet to the VBrake handles.

 

[yopappamon]

Finally installed a rack support.

 

[vanilla ice]

Just saw this thread, nice! Can you compare the feel delta vs. wye- low rpm tq/hp.. also the high rpm tq/hp?? How did things change for your bike? I assume you went from 17ish mph to 30ish??

Did low speed power drop waaay off after the rewire or does it feel pretty much the same?

 

[yopappamon]

Just saw this thread, nice! Can you compare the feel delta vs. wye- low rpm tq/hp.. also the high rpm tq/hp?? How did things change for your bike? I assume you went from 17ish mph to 30ish??

Did low speed power drop waaay off after the rewire or does it feel pretty much the same?

This was a brand new bike and build for me, so I never ran it on the wye winding. I can only compare it to my 36v 9c 7x9. I'm kind of surprise I didn't get more speed, it's around 28-30 depending on wind. I think I'm runing into the current limit on my controller a lot. It's only a little more speed than the 7x9 at 48v.

It does seem like a bit lower torque at low speeds, but not too bad.

I think if I had it to do again, I would just use the stock 7x9 and go up to 60v for the speed.