Need info on modern 12v car batteries. Ancient members?

brumbrum

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Calling all elders, thrifty misers and scrap heap creatives.

Could anyone point me to threads discussing charging, maintenance, and how best to treat 12v car batteries. Please.

I am more used to li-ion and lipo pack building on my bikes but my camper-van is more old skool and i need to parallel two 110ah packs and want to use and keep them in good working parameters when out in the wild where there are not any electrical hook ups.

Any pointers or old links would be helpful.

Roof solar panel?

Thanks
Andrew
 
Lead acid is a 2 dimension tech. An electron flys above a plate, looking for a hole to drop into.
Modern batteries are more like a sponge which the electron flies around and though

Because of the Piukert (sp) effect you can only use half of your amp hours
so you must charge/ discharge al less then .5C better would be ,1C
for a 110 a/hr .5 = 55 amps and .1 = 11 amps

the tech is 100 yrs old. Only the packaging has changed a little.
there is a battery that they rolled up the cell like a jelly roll, supossed to be better in vibration situations

the UPS (uninterrupted pwr supply) industry has given us AGM (absorbed glass mat) which most of us used.
nothing like a 40 lb battery to go 10 miles.

when you add 2 packs you add togetherAh for pallel, voltage for series
temp is important a warmer battery has more amps available,
a cold battery has fewer. Insulation and blankets for cold weather
a battery isolation switch to keep from draining your engine starting battery

resistance in wires are significant at 12 v less wire the better.
changing over to led would increase battery life
 
(edited to correct mistakes) Lead acid works because the Hydrogen and the sulfides in H2SO4 (sulfuric acid) have a weak bond and so they easily separate and re-combine (giving up and taking in electrons in the process). The plates are close in electromagnetic balance, but they are a little off from each other. One set of plates are lead oxide, and the other inter-mixed set is lead DI-oxide.

Lead acid can put out a LOT of amps in a fairly small package (that's one of the reasons they are used to start cars), but...every minute they are being used, some of the chlorides are coating the plates, which leaves less plate surface area available to provide a chemical reaction. This means the amount of amps they put out goes down in a rapid and steady decline.

When they reach the halfway point (where half the plate surface area is covered and unavailable), then trying to draw volts will cause a deep sag in the amps. Sealed Lead Acid (SLA), should only use the top half of their physical capacity to get "adequate" performance.

Every time you charge up a SLA, some of the lead in the plates will erode away. When the plates start to develop holes, the capacity when fully charged will be less, and that is the sign that they are shot. Motorcycle batteries sometimes have a clear case and you can even see the debris/sludge building up on the bottom of the case. If the debris pile gets high enough in a given spot, it will short some of the plates. With a liquid electrolyte I believe they are called Flooded Lead Acid (FLA), I think SLA has a gel electrolyte?

For some reason, if you deep-discharge them, the re-charging process erodes the plates much more than if you charge them up at the halfway point. It is highly recommended to charge them every time you stop. If you ride to work, have a second charger at work. This is one area where 2 + 2 = 6...and I have no explanation why.

They will slowly self-discharge over time. I've heard it speculated that humidity and dust make a conductive matrix on the top of the case (I don't know). After sitting for a couple months over winter, they will be deeply discharged. And when they sit in a discharged state for a while, the chlorides will gradually crystallize, and become unable to re-combine with the hydrogen that is dissolved in solution into the electrolyte.

In a FLA, if the hydrogen in the electrolyte evaporates a little over time, the electrolyte becomes "weak", so off-grid home back-up FLA batteries are recommended to have a brief "overcharge" on occasion. What happens is that when the battery is fully charged, the excess charge going into the battery is actually electrolyzing the electrolyte-water into H2 and O2, which is why you're not supposed to smoke or have any spark or flame around a charging FLA. This overcharge re-saturates the (half water/half acid) electrolyte with more hydrogen.

1. Only use half the amp-hours (Ah), a 10-Ah SLA only provides good performance for 5-Ah of range.
2. Recharge every time you stop, the battery will last many more months that way.
3. If parking for over a couple of weeks, put it on a low-amp trickle charger.

Whether you are using 36V or 48V, I am sure there's a way to use some very cheap diodes to charge all of them with a single 12V charger (or two 24V chargers for 48V pack?). SLA will easily weigh twice as much as LiFePO4. Also, LiFePO4 will typically last 3+ years, but with 5 days a week use...you will need a new SLA pack each spring, so there is no cost savings over three years (even though a SLA pack is cheaper to buy at first, you have to replace it very often).

Why does the FLA that starts your car last over 10 years? You only drain it for a few seconds to start your car, then it is immediately topped off. Also, it is charged every second that you are driving. Engine starting FLA have very thin plates to pack as much plate surface area in the smallest package needed. Deep cycle batteries have very thick plates, but they provide fewer cranking amps (less plate surface area to work with).
 
Interesting. We use sulphuric acid in Australia. I didn't know that HCL batteries existed, but I guess as long as the ions flow, it doesn't matter what acid you use.

My summary of tips:

* Always keep the battery as charged as possible, because in a discharged state, sulphate crystals form, increasing internal resistance, which means more sag, less capacity, and more energy wasted to heat during charging. If you do sulphate up, desulphate as soon as possible using an electronic or chemical desulphator, because if the crystals grow big enough to short two plates your battery dies.

* One contributor to premature plate loss is excessive charging current. Ideal charge rate is 1/20c, but ain't nobody got time for that. 1/10c is the recommended compromise. For 210ah worth of battery, that's about 20a.

* As others have mentioned many rapid shallow discharges is better than one deep discharge. Depending on plate design, using 30% of the battery only can give you up to 3000 cycles. But doubling that to 60% can cut your cycle life to about 700 on the same battery.

* Temperature also makes a big difference. At 20 degrees celcius, you get a shelf life of nearly 10 years. At 40 degrees, you get less than 3. Store in a cool dark place, well ventilated in your vehicle.

Other than that, keep the fluid topped up, try to smooth out your power draw as much as possible to avoid Peukurt,'s effect (e.g. if you're turning on the kettle, turn off everything else), and enjoy portable power!
 
Yes, this discussion of de-sulfating via a pulsating DC current was informative: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=37497&start=60
 
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