New 18650 LGABC11865 Cells Poor Capacity

Judoka

1 mW
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Apr 6, 2013
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I just recently acquired some new 18650 cells from 6 new Asus battery packs. I just did a capacity test on them with my Hyperion charger using a 4 amp discharge test. The first pair only made it 35 minutes. This is terrible performance out of a battery rated at 2800 mah, my USED 2350 mah panasonics can make it 50+ minutes on average. Do these things require cycling when new or did I just get some junk batteries?

http://www.megabatteries.com/item_details2.asp?id=15994
 
Questions did your charger say what MAH was discharged from the cell before the LVC stopped the discharge and what lvc did you use as these cells can sag quite a lot especially when going over 1c discharge rate.

I personally haven't used LG 18650 cells so i cant tell you if what you are seeing is normally but i would probably set an lvc of at most 2.8v when discharging at 4 amps to find the capacity of the cell.

If the cells have been in storage for a long time then if there voltage had drained too low they could have lost capacity from the damage.
however If the voltage was above 2v per cell then perhaps they just need a few cycles to get the chemistry going and the internal resistance to come down a bit.

The Sanyo 18650 cells i acquired from acer battery packs were as low as 1.8v per a cell but they had been sitting for 5 years on a shelf. The capacity however on these cells were not as damaged as i feared and only lost about 100mah of there rated capacity.
 
chilledoutuk said:
Questions did your charger say what MAH was discharged from the cell before the LVC stopped the discharge and what lvc did you use as these cells can sag quite a lot especially when going over 1c discharge rate.

I personally haven't used LG 18650 cells so i cant tell you if what you are seeing is normally but i would probably set an lvc of at most 2.8v when discharging at 4 amps to find the capacity of the cell.

If the cells have been in storage for a long time then if there voltage had drained too low they could have lost capacity from the damage.
however If the voltage was above 2v per cell then perhaps they just need a few cycles to get the chemistry going and the internal resistance to come down a bit.

The Sanyo 18650 cells i acquired from acer battery packs were as low as 1.8v per a cell but they had been sitting for 5 years on a shelf. The capacity however on these cells were not as damaged as i feared and only lost about 100mah of there rated capacity.

Those are some good questions and I left much of that info out of my original post. My LVC is 3.0, the batteries at rest were 3.97, they were charged to 4.20 and placed on a 4 amp discharge per pair (2800 mah x 2 is 5600 mah) so 4 amps is below a 1c discharge rate. Charger indicated 2300 mah hours (for a pair) drained from the battery before hitting 3.0v. By comparison, I have several Panasonic's that range from 50 minutes to 65 minutes doing the same test, some Samsung 2600 mah pairs run for 70+ minutes with the same test. The voltage drop when the load is applied is around 3.85 (from 4.20). I would normally junk a cell that performs this badly (or use in flashlights), but I expect that when dealing with used cells, just surprised with these NEW cells.
 
If above 3.5v then charge used old cells to 4.100v let rest for two days them discharge and message each cell then fill each cell and record each cell write it down. Then do a capicity test and then do a I.R. test. Then conpar notes with one self. So to know how much each cell can hold. Then the voltage should be close. or. JUST BUY A PACK FROM ???>
How many fires do we have to have ???
How many fires do you want to have ????
 
It's hard enought to match new good cells then junk.
Do it in a barbaque out back not in the house.
P.s. I live in a apartment.....
 
How confident are you this pack is brand new for example was is in factory sealed packaging because i find it strange they perform so badly.

I have before bought laptop packs that were stated as being 90% capacity remaining checked one pack out they were great and then bought a few more and they were much worse with very bad capacity.

However try cycling them and see if they improve at all.
 
They were advertised as new, in a box, in a static bag, batteries don't appear to be scuffed up or anything obvious. When I made the first post, I had only checked one battery pack because I intended on sending the remainder back to the ebay seller. The seller refunded my money and told me to keep them, so I opened up a second pack, charged to 4.20 and did my same capacity test, this pack performed like the first, very poor, only making it 30 minutes. By comparison, same test performed with same equipment on 5+ year old panasonic 2350 mah, it ran for about 65 minutes before reaching LVC at 3.0v. I've concluded these LG batteries are junk, I'll keep them around for some flashlights and stuff but they won't be going into a pack build.
 
999zip999 said:
It's hard enought to match new good cells then junk.
Do it in a barbaque out back not in the house.
P.s. I live in a apartment.....

My first pack build was with used cells. I selected them by the procedures outlined above and the pack has performed flawlessly for 2+ months now. My ezip was only getting 8 - 10 miles on the old SLA compared to 30+ miles I now get. Because I carefully selected the batteries, the pack stays in balance, and because I use 18650 cells, I'm able to fit them in the ezip case... this keeps the bike looking clean.
 
I scrounge laptop packs all the time. I'm running a moped sized scooter off of used laptop cells. They may not be perfect or as wonderful as EV grade cells, but they also cost me almost nothing. See my battery build page. I quite literally have several hundred used laptop cells running my ride. I check my packs every couple of months and sometimes find a cell or 2 has gone bad, but since they are in battery holders, replacing a dead cell is a quick and easy change out.

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=76013

Regarding fires...
All I can say to that is really?! Talk about some serious FUD! My LION packs are made of 100% used laptop cells. I ride them hard and every day. In my motor controller I have it set to cut off at 60 volts or 3 volts per cell. Until just this month, I never even balance charged. Now I have a single BMS that maintains all of them. I pull on average 20-60 amps depending on what I am doing. As far as charging and testing is concerned. When I initially get a laptop pack, I take apart the pack, check each cell voltage and then if they are below 2.5 volts, I charge 4 of them in parallel until they get above 3 volts on a cheap R/C charger. All I care about is that they get above 3 volts each. Then I switch them over to my expensive R/C charger which will do IR and can charge 2 sets of 6 cells at the same time. I've built 2 18650 battery holders into 6S balance battery holders so that I can test 12 cells simultaneously. I then run them through their paces. Each cell is monitored individually. I have yet to see a fire or even an overly warm cell. At worst, I have had a few cells get to 100F, but never a fire. I do all my testing on my desk in my den.

Regarding fires part 2...
I did the math. I have 20S12P of used laptop cells. Assuming they are really 3000 mah cells each, well that's 36Ah and if they are all 2C discharge then that's 72 amps I can safely draw. OK...those are ideal numbers. They assume brand new cells that are all 100% good. I'm running used cells that came out of scrounged laptop packs. I test the cells and don't run them if they are below 2400mah and that happens quite a lot by the way. Used laptop packs quite often have really bad cells in them and maybe one good cell or they may have all good cells. It just depends on the pack. Recently I acquired some 30 laptop packs and 50% of the cells so far are below my cut off of 2400mah and 50% were still worthy of use. My chargers have been running non-stop for days now with not even a single warm cell. So anyway, back to the math. Assuming 2400mah, that means I'm really getting 28,800mah at 1C discharge or 57.6 amps at 2C discharge. I can tell you for a fact that I exceed 57 amps quite often. The batteries hold up pretty well. They get warm to be sure, but no fires...not ever. AND...that's assuming that after 6 months of use that they are still running at 2400mah. I honestly can't say, they consistently get me 3 days of riding between charges and other than an occasional cell that drops out, have worked super well. Even when a cell dies (which has happened 7 or 8 times now), I still don't see a fire.

All that to say, 18650 cells are far more resilient and safe than people give them credit for. Can they catch fire? Yes they can, but so can a steel bar if you have the right conditions. Used laptop cells may not be ideal, but hey they get me going to 50mph every day on a 140 lb scooter plus my 230 pounds!
 
That cell is very suited towards a laptop and not so suited towards an EV.

Also, using used cells is probably not a great idea if you are looking to end up with a safe reliable pack instead of a project to maintain that may randomly burn.
 
Except used Model S cells...Ive seen nothing but great results.
 
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