Newest 85kph, 100km Electric Scooter, failed on Kickstarter

[4LivesPerGallon]

This could be the Tesla of electric scooters..85kph, range 100 kms, US$7,000
http://www.atx8080.com/

on Kickstarter:
http://www.autoblog.com/2015/07/15/atx-8080-electric-scooter-raises-ruckus-kickstarter/

Promotional video (watch this with a grain of salt)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vk9Yh9BEZEM

 

[4LivesPerGallon]

Kudus for your efforts, and for your donations to charities. Very commendable deeds.
http://www.atx8080.com/news-and-events/


Here are some suggestions for you and your ATX8080 scooter team, from our Vancouver group's experience with more than 10 scooters (gassers and electric), and scooter innovations that have been recognized world-wide, in the media:

- Yes, your scooter's specs would fill a void in the marketplace, especially with the hubmotor.

- However, "early adopters" have been repeatedly burned by EgoVehicles, EVT, Vectrix, Electric Motorsport, including the wonderful-on-paper (but really bad) EVT-6000. All of these are engineering or design failures or perhaps, even fraudulent products. They have all failed, despite the valiant efforts of early-adopters and tinkerers to make them work reliably. So, how can you prove that your ATX-8080 scooter has reliable battery chargers/BMS/balancing?

- Transport Canada government agency has a lot of requirements before such a scooter can be imported and accepted for road use. Ask Steve at E-Ride/Greenwit, who is the only remaining scooter importer who knows how to do this, except perhaps the Zero motorcycle company. Btw, Zero motorcycles in Vancouver, to my knowledge has not been successful -- seen them in semi-working state at motorcycle shops, obviously not Zero dealers. (Zero service is allegedly "zero", according to owner's posts in motorcycle forums.)

- The ATX8080 scooter's price is nearly Cdn$10K, a very significant amount, in these recessionary times in Canada.

- It would be a magnet for thieves. Our group has had four ebikes/scooters stolen already. As well as at least three ebike trailers. Hope the ATX-8080 has a low-current-draw, motion-sensing alarm and immobilizer, like the latest e-Ride XPH electric scooter.

- The Gogoro electric scooter has several credible "suicide scooter ride" videos on YouTube. Proves that the Gogoro can go 80+kph and be ridden for 45 minutes. You'll need to show some similar credible rides on YouTube, I would think.

- The real test for hub-motor efficiency is a ride up a very steep hill, at walking speed. Our group has reviewed many electric scooters since 2003, and have burnt out stock motors. We know that only very few brushless hub motors can do this without heating/overheating. To convince our group, please show a YouTube video, using an infrared themometer.

- Hope you have the Cycle Analyst on your scooters. The Cycle Analyst readouts/log is what experienced scooter people will believe. (It's mandatory, for development, anyway, in my view.)

- Given its premium pricing, does the ATX 8080 have these desirable specs? Brushless, gearless motor, tubeless tires, gold contacts and connectors, a BMS that is more than just LVC, 18650 batteries in series/parallel blocks, none of the "studpities" found in EVT electric scooters, and a smart battery charger that adjusts for decreasing battery capacity?

- Success in Vancouver (nickname: Raincouver) will depend on parts and reliable, honest service. Hope your future dealers do not follow the dishonorable path taken by Lance at the demised E-Cycles.

 

[John in CR]

- The real test for hub-motor efficiency is a ride up a very steep hill, at walking speed. Our group has reviewed many electric scooters since 2003, and have burnt out stock motors. We know that only very few brushless hub motors can do this without heating/overheating. To convince our group, please show a YouTube video, using an infrared themometer.

That's not a real test of anything, because going up a very steep hill at walking speed is a guaranteed fail for any single speed electric that is capable of a reasonable top speed. Running for long periods at high load at less than 1/4 of max rpm is a recipe for heat failure, which is bound by the physics not the design. If you need high speed too, then you need to more specifically define the problem to be solved (ie load, grade, speed, max speed).

Overkill on motor size is one solution, but that can hurt efficiency at moderate and high speeds on flat terrain, because the load doesn't justify that much torque potential. Since low speed up the steep hill doesn't require big power, a 2nd small motor that is geared very low could handle the hill climbing and let the hubbie handle normal terrain. The small motor could also help during the first rotation or 2 of the tire on launches too for better efficiency in city traffic. Getting the motor out of the wheel and using a 2 speed is another solution, with low used only on steep stuff. I favor the use of electromagnetic toothed clutches for this implementation running 2 belts or chains. In the normal position both sets of clutches would be unpowered and locked in high with the low chain freewheeling. Then for the rare occasion that low is needed, a total of maybe 50W goes to switching the high clutch(es) to freewheel and engage the low speed line. The savings in waste heat will offset the energy cost to power up the clutches many times over. You'd have to compare the weight and cost to a more typical 2 speed tranny, but those emag toothed clutches are capable of quite high torque in a small size, and are used in industry for conveyor systems for both running and emergency stop, so engaged/disengaged types in the unpowered state are both readily available.

If you can forgo being able to back the scooter up, even when pushing it then Retro-Direct is as elegantly simple as it gets for a 2 speed, though a single emag clutch could be used to disengage the drive and allow you to push it backward. The inability to roll backward of R-D can be a nice benefit when stopping on uphill grades, so if the application is something like a modern day ice cream man it may be worth the trouble of no backing up.

 

[sk8norcal]

This could be the Tesla of electric scooters..85kph, range 100 kms, US$7,000
http://www.atx8080.com/

the tesla of e-scooters would be the BMW C Evolution.

looks like it was canceled.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1864797206/the-atx-8080-charge-your-ride-change-the-world/comments

I wonder if they got a notice from Honda.



kld onedrive
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=54482&p=817800&hilit=onedrive#p817800

http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/2009/08/article/kld-neue-electric-scooter-first-look/
http://www.hybridcars.com/klds-onedrive-system-is-gaining-traction/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2IBnKouLDg

 

[4LivesPerGallon]

I'm afraid that you're wrong. sorry. Perhaps your mistaken belief is based on brushed and/or less-efficient motors.

There are brushless Taiwan/China hubmotors with matching controllers that can be lugged up a mountain road at walking speed without getting hot, no heat sinks necessary. The E-Ride CCT system is one of the them.

On another thought, the huge heat sinks in the American ATX-8080 scooter might be an indication that it is not one of those highly-efficient Taiwan-China motors.

On the subject of efficiency of motor/generators, circa 2007, a group of techies, including me, tested the "impossible" wind generator from a Korean company that was totally "non-cogging". Their wind generators at the wind power conference in Vancouver ranged from 400w to 1 million watts. The magnets were real, and we had fun trying to debunk this amazing generator. (So, the hundreds of inventors trying to create a non-cogging generator or motor should do something else, now.)

BTW, circa 2007-2011, we had an lead-acid electric pickup truck running on a flat road 15A @120VDC at 60KPH constant. Same pickup truck, going uphill at steep Capilano Road in West Vancouver and the steep Lions Gate Bridge, and Queen Elizabeth Park (Vancouver's highest hill) drawing less than 70A @120VDC. All on video clips on the 'net, check them out, gauges showing clearly. Sadly, we got some hate-mail from e-car drag-racers saying "that's not possible". Gary Tang, a real engineer who helped make this electric pickup truck work, calculated the theoretical power requirments, and said the numbers show that, yes, it is possible --- and that our pickup truck was simply put, highly-efficient. There were 10 breakthroughs and discoveries with that electric pickup truck, our hobby at the time, which we have since made public.

That pickup truck, in non-working condition, was gifted to our Vancouver group by a company who failed in their experiments with it. At another time, we were given a gas scooter for a project to save trees from the pine beetle. We got that scooter to run on 1/3 water, 2/3 gasoline -- see the Twist N' Go article on it, with dyno tests.

 

[granolaboy]

FYI, You can import ZEV scooters into Canada, no problem.

http://www.zelectricvehicle.com/

Too bad about the ATX-8080...looks like a fun scooter. I love the look of the ruckus-style scooters, but what I don't like is the lack of any additional under-seat space to add batteries or whatever. Although, the need to mod the scoot is not so urgent, if it goes 80km/h.

 

[Chalo]

If their idea of social activism is to donate scooters to veterans, I can only say I'm pleased to hear their fundraiser failed.

 

[Sean9002]

If their idea of social activism is to donate scooters to veterans, I can only say I'm pleased to hear their fundraiser failed.

Is this tongue in cheek or a legitimate statement?