Pedicab Trailer = Fun Times

[Sancho's Horse]

Pedicabs are best as purpose built. So, if you are going to build one yourself, and you are going to build a trailer format...you better know your stuff. People will want to know that you know what you are doing with others safety, and the trend is towards more city council oversight...So, this thread is an attempt to put all the pertinent info in one place and document my progress. I am hoping to have this approaching finished near the start of school (university) Aug. 19th. This is never going to happen in time, but I am close.

I, have been under computer transition. My new laptop bluescreened (while I was gone)...then to the laptop my wife purchased...now to her old laptop with a broken SDM reader...so, until I get a new hard drive, or I am out at my parents house or the library...posting pics has been a no go. But I am going to make the journey to the library and start getting all my pics on a flash, so things will start posting a little smoother (although some stuff I might wait to post in case i do want to make some money off of anything).

The first thing I have been considering is where the rubber meets the road. Pirelli has a little descriptor which is useful, here: http://www.pirelli.com/tire/us/en/motorcycle/genericPage/all_about_tyres.html
This tells you how to read a tire, the different methods of construction and their advantages, and several other useful tidbits. The most important for a pedicab is the weight the tires are rated for. I am using moped wheels. Longer life, better stability, DOT approval, stated weight ratings.

Tires will have a Load Index (LI) and Speed Rating. A site with a partial listing of the codes is monsterscooterparts...dig a little deeper around the net...probably easy to find an exhaustive list. Here is what they have
http://www.monsterscooterparts.com/fusistlescti.html
This is stuff you need to know before you start. I am overbuilding...more to compensate for my engineering lack...umen than anything else. Ok, times wasting.

 

[Sancho's Horse]

There have been several wrecks involving pedicabs. One in Scottsdale was particularly nasty in January 2013.
[youtube]EXywLuOISd0[/youtube]
Automobiles are a major danger. You can see how the pedicab trailer was damaged in the video. I learned several lessons from this.
The first involves lights...the more the better. Headlights, taillights, and I am including LED running lights which really light up the whole trailer.

The second involves seatbelts. You can get cheap seatbelts from places like jcwhitney...http://www.jcwhitney.com/seat-belts...Aug&008=&004=1314488732&025=c&005=14713872923
ranging $10-20...of course higher as well, but I am willing to bet it will save big money through insurance, and improved customer experience as well.

The third involves seat height. Although low might seem like the more stable option for certain handling, you do not want passengers getting forced down beneath the bumper. Build the seat height high enough that the passengers will end up on the hood and not under the bumper.

I also built a bumper. It will double as a cooler for beverages. Will it dissipate enough energy? It can't hurt. I will make a special effort tomorrow to post bumper pics. Sorry, for how dry this is...but I am thoroughly sleep deprived. A bit like being drunk, without any of the fun. Yay! Anyways, feel free to chime in all over this thread. Somebody has to liven it up 8)

 

[Chalo]

Austin has something over 250 licensed pedicabs in operation. I work on the tow bikes a lot, the trikes pretty often, and the trailers now and again.

In the next month, rules come into effect that all pedicab trailers must have brakes. And tow bikes will have to be inspected to a standard, which I helped write. These are both welcome developments, but they have already had the effect of moving trailers out of Austin into other cities, and trikes from elsewhere into Austin.

Pedicab trailers are poorly understood and often very poorly designed and manufactured. The critical rules of thumb as I see them are to keep the trailer's unloaded tongue weight relatively modest, and to try to center the passengers' weight over the trailer axle. Stay away from any kind of suspension on the tow bike; weight shifts make it unworkable.

The most reliable pedicab trailer wheels I have seen are 48 spoke 20" freestyle front wheels with 14mm axles. Even those take quite a beating and are treated as consumable items.

 

[gestalt]

Well I may have just come off a 15 hour pedicab shift, and I may be a bit drunk/exhausted/delerious/slightly insane, but trailers rule! And it is absolutely insane that brakes on the trailer be required. Anyone that says otherwise is a twit that has never had to spend significant time operating one. Or the trailer won't built right no ways. In the two years that I rode one jacknifing was never even close to a problem even with thousand pound loads in the rain going downhill. People want to speculate about what is safe from a purely hypothetical standpoint, but the proof is in the sweaty pudding.two years rocking trailers and no jack knifes even with a bunch of potheads piloting them.

What is needed on a trailer is a well build mtn bike with disc brakes all around and a competent operator. The only downside is they are a bitch to park and chill on without a good downward slope to the curb. That's just about the only reason I can see to put brakes on a trailer.

I guess though when you got 250 cabs with at least two people driving each one you have alot more idiots driving the who should not be pedicabing anyways. Honestly I miss the trailers, you can haul way more, have a higher top speed and still get that feeling of riding a bike that I feel like I've lost since switching to main streets. The trikes look much more legit, climb better though and can squeeze through much smaller places.

 

[dogman dan]

I would think two more brakes won't stop a cab in time when the car has made sure it's too late.

 

[Sancho's Horse]

Thanks for the responses. I was shooting for a tongue weight of a bit less than 10% of overall. My trike does not have any suspension other than moped tires. The hitch is forward of the rear axle which has been good for stability.

I have a lot of fabrication done already, but it is largely just the surface stuff. I especially want criticism during this time, so let it fly. The ultimate critique though is what I find at the local middle school parking lot...my test track.

 

[Sancho's Horse]

So, are brakes on a trailer necessary? Why?

I already have some mechanical disk go kart brakes which I was considering sticking on. I would like for them to engage before my hydraulics ideally.

I have the moped tires, so why not use those? A bit less consumable. I understand there is a friction penalty, but that is why I have the nuvinci, and assist. I have been building around 20" rims, so...I am not changing that.

Just wait until I say something about using a plexiglass floor...is a plexiglass floor strictly verboden?

 

[Chalo]

So, are brakes on a trailer necessary? Why?

Necessary? No, not exactly. You can use very good judgment instead. Pedicabbers as I know them generally don't have that.

You can have, what, potentially 1000 pounds on the trailer's wheels? It isn't terribly effective to stop that much weight using wheels that might have 200 pounds of weight on them (for instance 120 pound girl pedicabber, 30 pound tow bike, plus tongue weight which is variable moment by moment). It does help to have brakes on the wheels that carry most of the weight.

I have the moped tires, so why not use those? A bit less consumable. I understand there is a friction penalty,

If the drag doesn't get you down, then OK. But keep in mind that rolling resistance is a function of weight on the tire, and the more weight you have on the trailer, the more drag you'll have to fight against. If you find it tolerable, then there are side benefits to sturdier weight-rated moped tires.

Just wait until I say something about using a plexiglass floor...is a plexiglass floor strictly verboden?

Why would it be? For what it's worth, Lexan (polycarbonate) is much tougher and just as clear. They'll both get scuffed up and hazy with use, but they'll display downlighting beautifully.

 

[gogo]

So, are brakes on a trailer necessary? Why?

I already have some mechanical disk go kart brakes which I was considering sticking on. I would like for them to engage before my hydraulics ideally.

I have the moped tires, so why not use those? A bit less consumable. I understand there is a friction penalty, but that is why I have the nuvinci, and assist. I have been building around 20" rims, so...I am not changing that.

Why wouldn't you use automotive wheels/tires/brakes? Cheap, tough, low rolling resistance.

 

[Chalo]

Why wouldn't you use automotive wheels/tires/brakes? Cheap, tough, low rolling resistance.

Two car wheels and hubs weigh as much as a paying passenger, but you have a point there. Especially if the wheels are temporary spare "donuts".

Rolling resistance of car tires is only low if you have a car engine to propel them.

 

[Sancho's Horse]

The Pirelli ML 75 for the front wheel are only 2.5", so the penalty isn't huge. They are pretty cheap. Not as cheap as some of the 13" options for scooters. If you want cheap you definitely want the most heavily consumed item out there. But a car tire...even a spare just crosses the line in terms of price to benefit.

The choice of plexiglass is because the plexiglass is free. I want to sand a pattern into the plexiglass and use some LEDs with it. For the clear parts I intend to use a clear tape to mask. Some areas will get more scuffed than others, and my pattern will not fight that, but some portions I would like to have remain clear as long as possible, so I am leaving the masking tape on, and replacing it from time to time.

The plexiglass is only a 1/4" or so thick, but there will be a metal floor under...covered in a thin layer of rubber, with sections of the metal removed. It is starting to look pretty good.

I think I may have figured out a way to get around the SDM reader damage. I have a Samsung Galaxy tablet, so I will try to get it hooked up to the internet, use its micro SD, and email images. A bit of trouble but easing the frustration is worth it.

 

[Sancho's Horse]

Last year I enjoyed a Peregrine falcon over the last large section of undeveloped land on the main shopping road. So, I built a nice porch. This year, 216 units of college drama, or so the neighbors seem to think. I have two small children so, it will be an adjustment, and I worry about their safety. However, the tear jerking loss of innocence is just not...necessarily how I see it. They will see stuff. But unless I go Amish...they will see stuff. However, if they see stuff, and see these people as people, and see their work in college...it could be real educational, and lots of fun.

This is what I had in the initial stages. Actually, I have an awesome pick from this winter which started some of the materials gathering process. It is on my wife's computer, and she is super paranoid about allowing me on her computer...but I will get it back. It is a picture of the shopping cart which became the basis for this pedicab stuck sideways in a pile of snow. I saw it, and was kind of excited because the plastic basket was clearly smashed to smithereens. I asked the kind manager of Big Lots Muncie!!! and she said it is all mine. The funny thing was that as the snow began to melt, there were three other shopping carts... which the snow plow driver had clearly enjoyed gathering for the fine people at Big Lots.

I am brazing. Over brazing...actually it has been very easy to find materials. Old exercise equipment,, you just need a tight fit, and if the materials are of differing thicknesses, still no problem, just a little more deftness with the torch.
Here is the beginning of the bumper and a space where I can house interchangeable advertising:

I have brake lights and turn signals on a bar which I may have posted on another thread, but I will look.
Enough for now.

 

[Sancho's Horse]

I am considering using a different tire and rim choice. I went ahead and bought 4 of these rims from the early zero motorcycles as described on this thread:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=51494

Ypedal included a link to some tubed moped tires on ebay which I purchased as well:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-25-X-16-m...her_Vehicle_Parts&hash=item460ff62b30&vxp=mtr

I wonder if these would be a good wheel choice or if I should put them on another trailer.
I will post some pics if that is helpful...as soon as my wife grows up.

 

[Chalo]

I am considering using a different tire and rim choice. I went ahead and bought 4 of these rims from the early zero motorcycles as described on this thread:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=51494

I bought some of those and told Gaston/Ypedal and the rest of Yahoo power-assist about them. I furnished a few to a friend of mine who used them on his homemade 20" pedicab trike I helped him build.

They are very strong, and very wide (which helps stabilize the tire under extreme lateral loads), but they tend to split their sidewalls at pressures over 75psi. Only pedicabbers seem to want to do this with 2.25" tires and wider, but there you go. I recommend keeping the pressure below 65, which will help those little wheels deliver a decent ride in spite of their size. I like the Animal GLH 20 x 2.25" freestyle tire for its tough construction and low price.

I still have a scant few of those rims in 36h and 48h. They were waiting for the right trike project, but they might have to wait a good while longer.

 

[Sancho's Horse]

Found a way around the wifey pic wise...thank God.

Ok, made some difficulties for myself geometrically speaking, because as you can see from the side view I added an extra seat in the front.

I do not have the wheel placement sealed yet, so...my thoughts are that I can use axle placement and spare battery placement to achieve a bit of system balance. Speaking of axles, I was wonerding if a leaf spring would be useful? I have not trimmed weight as much as I will, but maybe a better ride with a bit less anxiety over bumps would be worth it?

I put the third seat there for two reasons: more fairs, and my wife and two children will have comfy spots...oh...and why the hell not shoot for full on car?
However, it is making me doubt the step I have, whether I should skip it or not?

This thing is going to need a cargo load of batteries, so I thought maybe I can use those to remove some weight off of the tongue. And I have some cool little doodads from a dentist's dumpster, including this little gem which I will eventually make into a device recharging station for the passengers (I mean who needs sleep after all?):

Here is a closer pick with an old light fixture I am somehow going to incorporate:

I made some progress on the canopy, but I will show that another day. Running a bit short on time, but I am not sweating it. I figure that seeing me put the finishing touches on it will be a good ice breaker with the apartment dwellers across the street.

 

[Sancho's Horse]

Might as well post the canopy stuff now...

Here is a bit more of the back end...the tail light and bumper. The tail light is removable so that I can use it on other trailers, but is lacking a turn signal atm. The tail light bar is not in its final position. The canopy will, hopefully, retract down and nestle just above the taillight bar with the bar projecting a bit beyond the back of the canopy for visibility.
The canopy is being created from the smashed hull of a car rooftop cargo shell. Here is the back bit which I will attach all of the other hardware to, to make it work:

Here is the hardware which I will be using:

I have a couple of snap hinges from the cargo hauler, which I will be using to extend out the front portion of canopy. I have a chain ring from an exercise machine which I will be using to move the canopy from off of the bumper, up and into position. I have a little motor I will be using to make the process passenger friendly/passenger actuated, and a little piece of old cast aluminum I removed from something or other which has a nice retro feel, and will make a nice housing for part of the motor and a moving part. Still a long way off on this part. But I have nearly worked through the geometry on the actual trailer to make it all work. Nothing gets in the way! Yet.

One question I had for people...I was considering using a welding blanket as material for the seats. I thought with batteries being stored beneath the seat, a bit of this might be a good and cheap...and possibly effective a## roast prevention material. Pricing outdoor materials is ridiculously expensive, with some real lamo patterns to boot. I even considered springing for some Seattle fabrics:http://www.seattlefabrics.com/
But...so costly. But my Muncie options are JoAnn fabrics...and Hobby Lobby. And also very expensive. But a welders blanket...

 

[docnjoj]

But a welders blanket...

Good ol'e Harborfreight has 'em cheep.
otherDoc

 

[Chalo]

I like the clever use of space in putting a seat up front, but keep in mind that will have a dramatic effect on tongue weight. A small person in that seat will change your vehicle dynamics more than two gargantuan fatties in the back seat. So I'd say use the front one with caution.

Use a 48 spoke rear wheel on your bike if you can. Widening your rear triangle to a tandem standard of 145mm or 160mm to reduce wheel dish would not be a bad idea either.

 

[Sancho's Horse]

HarborFreight is what I already have...something like $32 regular, but I got it for $20. It feels pretty sturdy...I am really considering it pretty heavily ...I also have this super strong tarp material which is rubberized. Only problem with anything rubber with fabric is that it can break down/ get fungal funk.

Thanks for the aesthetics/space use comment chalo...but that front seat is the single biggest concern I have for this right now. Well, that and the arm rests I have on the front seat are too thin of metal for me to rely on, especially if someone were to lean into the arm rest in a turn. Anyways...I want to use that front seat while going super slow through football game situations, and there is a particular part of the bar scene which has just enough spread and slow traffic speeds that I thought it would work well...and my wife is 90 lbs, so stick her up there with the kids on the other seat.

My solution is to make my sound system modular, and put it on the seat when I am not wanting the seat to be used, and under the seat when I want it used. I will post some pics of the sound system pretty soon, but need a bit more work done...or it really looks like more than just a bunch of parts laying there. Ok, kids sleeping so...back to work.

 

[Sancho's Horse]

Well, I have made lots of progress on many fronts on this thing. That is part of how I work. I go on each micro project until I hit its natural stopping point, either new parts needed, or unforeseen problem/knowledge deficit. I then pick up somewhere else, so that I use all of my limited time. One area which worked out pretty well...so far at least, is my custom cushions. Everything is custom for me...which really should be read as cheap, or free.

I made the cushions from two different foam camping mats. There is an inner core of flexible acrylic?, which is actually an old fresnell lens from a big screen TV which was the most scratched up of my salvaged fresnell lens stocks. It had just the right level of flexibility. The cushion needs to bend a bit to the contours of the seatback. The seatback is still under construction. I am using a large sheet of 1/4" lexan which I am going to mold (not vacuum, classic crappy heat) over a form I created from insulation foam, and alternating strips of plywood, with a piece of fairly thin felt placed over the form. I have a large fire place in the back yard made out of a large storm sewer drain. I will have a nice cookout, smores for the kids beers for the "adults," and as the coals get about right, I am going to warm the lexan to a nice melty temp, and place over the form, with a heat gun and curved forming tool to massage the thing into the right shape. Getting the right beer ratio is critical. Sun, wind, finger in the air and work the magic. Until then, I have cushions:

You can see some of the materials. Some foam rubber, some polyethylene foam, acryilc, a real mess for adhesion. So, my solution was to use some old "Protecto-Wrap" I had left over from sealing around a sliding glass door I put in. This stuff reminds you of tar, but essentially, it sticks to anything. These materials don't really mold very easily, but mold shows up anywhere moisture resides, so making sure the four layers of camping mat and fresnell lens were protected from most water ingress was important. So, I sealed all edges. It needs to be able to flex somewhat. I think I have a winner. You can see some of the harbor freight welding blanket in the next pic. I think once it is sewed together, it will really allow the flex, but not allow the protecto tape to come apart.

I also have 3 two point seat belts installed, which I got from the local auto parts shop. Cheap. $15 apiece. I will post those when I get a chance to take a pic.