Schwinn Moab S MTB/E-bike conversion

[209143]

After learning so much in the past couple of weeks from ES users, I am creating this to be my end all thread. I don't want to keep creating new posts for the same bike. In my signature are all previous posts created by me in reference to this bike.

*Sigh*

Moving on...

This is my first E-bike, and I'm a noob. lol. In the almost 5 weeks I've been E-biking to work I have saved $400, Almost the price of my kit. I was using local cabs to get to and from work. $8 each way. This helps my family immensely. I am the breadwinner with one child and one on the way. My wife is edgy about the money I'm spending on this, but I try to assure her that this will save us money.

My background includes an innate understanding of electromechanical and physical things. I started at the age of 3. I am always learning and absorbing everything and anything related to electricity. Why, how and wow are definitely big words in my vocabulary. I have no formal education that relates to this, only my own desire to learn and experiment. With formal education in electronics i could become quite the guru, but all things aside, let's talk bikes!

I've got a Schwinn Moab S circa 1995. It was my Father's. When I was young I used to admire it so much and now it's mine. It's got dings and rust, but in today's money it's price is about $784 USD. It's definitely not a POS.

This is my alternative to not owning a car. Any money theoretically paying car payments, insurance, gasoline, Etc. can go into this bike.

To get me started I ordered a kit off of Amazon. Apparently a Yescom or the likes. It came with, after research, a GM 36v 800w motor, and what seems to be an Infineon controller, could be wrong....Controller states 36v 800W written in sharpie. It's a 12 FET controller, CJS75N80 FETs inside. I've recently done a shunt mod w/a bit of solder and the performance gains are quite noticeable on the acceleration front. Currently I'm using two UB 12V 8Ah SLA's and six Turnigy 5000mAh 2p1s 50-100C discharge hardcase lipos all in series for ~50V. I charge using a SkyRC Imax B6 Mini w/ a 5A PS.

All in all, with all the kinks worked out, it's great for a beginner like me. It gets me to work and back, charging at both locations. I'm guesstimating 30+MPH. Unfortunately, with the speed limit being 35MPH on the main drag, I'm not keeping up with everyone driving 10MPH over the speed limit. In the ES tradition, I NEED MORE. Idk how much more this motor will allow me to throw at it before it smokes. I'm definitely willing to add more volts, but I'm not sure this motor can cut the mustard looking at 45+MPH.

My commute to and from work is 4.4 Mi. round trip. At the moment I can do it in 18 min flat, with no traffic of course. I use approx. 5000mAh per leg at WOT 90% of the way.

So I ask the world of ES...Can I achieve my dream 45+MPH in a cost effective manner? Remember, 2.2 Mi. That's it. What's my next step?

Thanks in advance,
AB


P.S. My current controller has a HVC of ~51V
If you need pictures, I can give you all the pictures you need.

 

[dogman dan]

Boy do you belong here. But do watch out, there should be a 12 step program for e bikes. 2.2 miles? Hell man, you don't need shit for that. That's easy pedal it distance, not even bad walk it distance. Savings? You were taking a cab for that? That's not a savings, but I do dig it that a cab could be the thing if it's raining that hard that day.

Seriously, you cannot justify anything more than a 48v bike with 5 ah of 12s lipo for that. In fact, you need to just ride it on a pedal bike for your health.

But of course, you are hooked now. Cheap ebay 72v controller, and 5 ah of 20s lipo. Should cost less than a hundred for the controller, and a couple hundred for the battery.

But if your wife is buying it that you are saving money based on $8 a day for a cab, More like saving shoe leather. Lets see, a good pair of sneaks a year, three years to pay off the $300 go fast money. If she was taking you in the car, then it would be 9 miles a day, potentially about 5-7 bucks a day. So figure your savings on that if you like.

What would really make sense though, is to build yourself a truly useful electric bike. A cargo bike you could do much more that zip to work on. Not doing those 10 mile round trips to the store bike car saves you a fortune. Make your car last forever.

 

[209143]

Lol, good reply dogman!

I've read your longtail build thread, very nice! I do use it to go to the grocery store and use my backpack as the cargo hold. The grocery store is .5 miles away

Aaand I'm lazy I guess, though there are long rolling hills to and from work some with some farily steep grades. By the time I get there I'm completely drenched with sweat and I'm on my feet all day as a kitchen manager. When I get off I am NOT Interested in anymore physical exertion.

But you are saying that 72v can give me 45+ MPH With my current motor? Is greentime a decent brand?

I'm interested in a triangle battery bag to balance the weight And get rid of the awful bag/bungee rear rack setup Could someone recommend aomething suitable for my bike?

Thanks,
AB

 

[209143]

I've probably spent 100+ hours reading and searching on Es in the past couple weeks. I swear to you know who when searched for info about those who had the same kit i have i couldn't find anything, but today, i'm finding lots of info.... i feel stupid for making posts when i could have searched deeper and found it? I've been working alot lately and i've got one on the way, so i'm a bit stressed. i found out today that my work partner had a heart attack and was hospitalized, now having stints put in b/c of major blockages. this was today btw.... i thought he might have died in his sleep or something. none the less i have to cover his shifts.

many thanks to amberwolf, dogman dan and others who have been patient with me in getting acclimated to "forum life" lol

If there was a way to merge all my posts to this one *cohesively* i'm ok with it.

I'm somewhere between a sponge and a vacuum when it comes to learning about something new related to electromechanics relating to my life. I have lots of knowledge related to electricity and mechanical things and i feel i could be useful in helping others with their problems, but i need to get mine figured out first.lol

I have had a short stint in the world of renewable/solar field working for a panel/system distributor. if i had the means i would never pay the "man" for electricity/ energy for as long as i live.lol.

elon of tesla is creating the basis for the best thing to happen to this world since, well a lot of things, but you get my point...

For those who would like to know, I have ADHD and i have a hard time getting my thoughts out in just one sentence,lol, so please bear with me and my ramblings

As for questions i have:

1. GM 36v 800w motor - will overvolting to 72v give me 45 MPH on a 26" rim, i've searched overvolting and this motor but finding no clear limitations- help! can't afford to smoke the motor...
2. Battery bag recommendations- rear rack and bat bag isn't cutting the mustard

3. cargo rack recommendations for grocery store trips
4. connector/wire gauge recommendations for what i'm trying to achieve
5. lighting options, not many street lights in the neighborhoods. at 45MPH this is a necessity.
6. helmets---again safety,but the wind noise in my ears is almost unbearable with my current setup. thinking motorcycle helmets?
7. can this motor handle 40+ amps, not a big fan trying things w/o knowing for sure, my dollars are precious

i think i'll stop here
no, here


or here...


lol

thanks,
AB

 

[Chalo]

Don't try to go 45mph on a commodity mountain bike. You'll hurt yourself, break your bike, and confirm your wife's suspicion that you are a nincompoop.

It's a bicycle. Use it to go bicycle speeds. You're already exceeding what that bike is good for. If you want routine 35+ mph speed, you should have something a lot more uncompromising and special than what you've got.

You don't have to go the same speed as the murdermobiles. If pedal cyclists can get used to riding at 10mph in the traffic lane, you can put on your big boy pants and ride at up to 25mph (which your bike should be OK with).

Your efforts to provide for your family will suffer a setback if you kiss the pavement at 40mph because you were stuffing multi horsepower through a 20 year old MTB. A helmet will not help you if you won't use your brain as a first resort. In fact, this is a perfect example of why helmets haven't reduced cyclist fatalities-- people put on helmets and then go do stupider things than they would without one.

If I only ever had to ride 2 miles at a time, I'd never even consider using e-assist. That's like ten minutes each way by pedal power, including a few stops.

 

[dogman dan]

I totally agree with that Chalo.

1. You don't need 40 mph for the commute. Though a relatively faster bike could be safer, in terms of mixing with cars. Ideally, find a better route, one that uses 25 mph streets. Being able to accelerate out of trouble can save you. Much much much better though, is never putting your ass in the danger zone so much.

2. 40 mph ebikes on the street, are unregistered, illegal, homemade flyweight motor cycles. You don't really need a cop looking at you like this .

3 As pointed out, that cheap ass bike was never meant to go 40 mph. Sure, it can, but it's forks are cheap and inadequate. Likely you have a 1" headset, and can't even upgrade your fork. And though you can get the brakes to grab fine, at some point you need more than a bike tire to stop in a reasonable distance. Up to 30 mph relatively safe. But if shit happens, and it will,, your brakes will do you no good at all when somebody pulls out of a driveway, thinking you are a bike going 15 mph. And there you are going 40 mph!! How you gonna provide for your wife and kid, with a spinal cord injury? Or your head squashed.

However, We know you are gonna do it. On that cheap bike. The bike is all steel, so that helps a lot. But you better be one hell of a wheelman, if you think you are going to ride it without crashing at 40 mph. Do you have tons of experience with fast motorcycles on the street? Bad enough at 30 mph when cars do this to you.

So,,,, You won't get 45 mph from 72v. For me, that took about 110v. A 72v 40 amps controller will get you 40 mph out the driveway, and about 35 mph later as the battery lowers voltage as you ride. That is the practical maximum for your motor. Any more will increase speed, but the motor heats fast as hell with more. With 72v 40 amps, keep the use of the full speed very short.

But really, plan on riding less than 30 mph to work and back. Just use the full speed sparingly, to get out of danger, or for a hooligan ride at dawn on sunday morning. Ride fast only on a road you trust. one that's smooth. It's really no fun to get surprised by a pothole when riding a bike 40 mph!

My buddy in El Paso, just got his bike up and running. Going 25 mph he hit a huge pothole, and destroyed his motor wheel. He wanted 40 mph. I kept saying over and over. No you don't, not on the road to work you will be riding on. 25 mph was too much.

I'm dead serious man. Crashing the bike at 40 mph is no joke. You better be wearing everything if you do. Full DOT motorcycle helmet, pants with armor in the knees and hips, coat with armor in it, thick gloves. the works!

You see folks riding motorcycles at 40 mph with less on all the time. Why is it not safe to do that on a bike? BIKE TIRES. You'll lay er down so easy when you start cornering above 25 mph, or hit a pothole. Real motorcycle tires and rims are required for a safe ride at 40 mph, day in day out. The better tire has a chance of effective braking, and wont lay down so easy.

 

[The fingers]

Motorists don't expect that bicycle they see in the distance to be right there in front of them twice as fast as they thought it to be. At best, they are surprised. At worst, you become road kill. :wink:

 

[209143]

and you guys care? I love this forum! I totally get it. Its more of a safety thing, the speed that is. I'm not looking for stupid fast for fun, but in my area theres alot of merging onto the main drag from dead stops with excessive traffic. Even cars have trouble getting out. And everyone is going over the speed limit. I STRONGLY dislike riding on any sidewalks, not to mention it's illegal.

I had a run in w/ a car a year or so ago. I had the "white walking man" symbol and a car turned on a right lane turnoff. That hurt. Sidewalks are dangerous. The last time I was injured, broken wrist, I asked too much from my knobby mtb tires. One little Rock. ...30 degree or so hairpin turn at 15mph. Had done it 100 times before, its when you least expect it...

I suppose what I'm getting at is, just because my car can reach 100mph doesn't mean I am going to drive 100mph everywhere. Make sense ? I'm quite happy with the 25-30mph i'm already getting, but if I had more I would feel safer mingling with the two ton death machines.

On flat ground I'm good with no traffic. downgrades even better. But uphill I get drivers weaving around me Closely 20mph faster than me. I am a very defensive cyclist before I had the motor, but if you only knew what I have to deal with ...

I also live in a colllege town with lots of stupid drunk kids.

Again, thank you so much for caring about my safety. knowledge is power after all.

So yes, im trying to create a flyweight motorcycle for times when I need it. Please understand and work with me to meet my needs for this bike.

On my ride home there is next to no traffic, 1 am.
On my ride to there is excessive rush hour traffic at 5 pm.

Thanks,
AB

 

[Drunkskunk]

So I ask the world of ES...Can I achieve my dream 45+MPH in a cost effective manner? Remember, 2.2 Mi. That's it. What's my next step?

If your idea of cost effective is under $10,000, sure! If it's under $2000, not so much.

It's easy to build a bike capable of hitting 45mph, for a moment. You could probably do it with your Moab. It's a totally different story when you want to build a bike that can travel at a sustained 45, even for 2.2 miles. Your Moab wouldn't survive that for very long. You might not survive as long as the Moab.

Take a look at those old pedal style street legal mopeds. they were designed for 30mph. Most weigh around ~100 pounds, and only about 20 of that is the motor. The rest of the weight goes into making the bike survive 30mph in a safe reliable way. Heavier duty tires, tubes, rims, spokes, hubs, brakes, axles, frames, bars, etc. They are designed to survive to handle road speeds, hitting potholes and staying intact day in, day out.

If you want to build a bike that can act like a motorcycle, you need to build a bike shaped motorcycle. Many of us have done it, and It's a blast. But any thought of cost effective should probably be abandoned.
I've built a few bikes capable of 40+ sustained. Their cost to operate per mile is more than my car.
But I have a 50cc Honda motorcycle capable of >50mph. It's cost of operation including insurance is less than most of my Ebikes.

For some jobs, an Ebike isn't the right tool.

 

[209143]

just got a light for the bike. It's awesome. It's a 36watt 12 cree LED spotlight, runs off my existing batteries.

Here's some pics:

Also have another battery coming and some connectors, had to get rid of those heavy ass sla's. oh yeah, and an amp meter and speedo.

any thoughts on a triangle bag for this bike>?


AB

 

[markz]

Well its good to know you are the bread winner of the family. However ebiking you are putting yourself at huge risk for physical harm as road rage is a popular game these days on the road. No driver really cares about a measley "biker" on the road. Most drivers dont even know the traffic law. I suggest you stock up on your medical insurance, especially if your in the states. I mean you might not be at fault, but you dont want to be out of pocket when the idiot runs you over and you got to wait a year or 2 to collect your measly injury damages. Then who knows what the long term affects are going to be, do you want to hold out for years to find out and collect a few million (if in California, but everywhere now seems to put a cap on payouts, seems government is holding hands with insurance companies...always have really)

Need safety equipment. Helmet a must. Bright lights a must. Bell a must. As an everyday commuter, that scares me. I have ridden downtown and I tell you, one day I was hit 3 times in the span of a few hours. Heck, even the city bylaws state where I am at, certain roads during rush hour, are off-limits to bicycles. I hear all the time of a pedestrian or bicyclist being hit by a car, and its a hit and run. Buddy is seriously injured or dead. The city put out a Google Maps, map, with little flags of the types and seriousness of incidents within the city involving bikes and pedestrians and giving intersections of bed repute a sign stating such. That was frightening. Its seems coppers dont put much emphasis on bike/pedestrian safety as its harder to write summons for to crank up their quota for writting tickets so they can cruise around in $70,000 suburbans. You blow through a pedestrian crossing while they are still in the crosswalk, its a $2000 fine. I see cops break that law all the time. Doing the typical 4' to 8' gap passing in front of them. Start doing bait patrols. Stop doing bait cars for crack heads. Stop your donut breaks and get to work.

I would do batteries in the triangle, welded shut. Good Kryptonite New Yorker/Forgetaboutit lock for $100 and a quick release for cables so you can bring your wheel and controller into your office. That is what I will be doing for sure. Plus if you make your bike look like a bums bike, then no one will steal it.

 

[dogman dan]

You need a 6.2 mile route, that's 10 times safer.

 

[209143]

i wish there was a different route but there isn't. All alternate routes are the same speed. I have found a decent path there but there are so many stop and go's, bumpy streets, etc.

got my speedo today. i top out at 31.8mph downhill steep grade. Thats about as fast as i'd like to go. w/o the actual speedo on there i was just guessing at 45mph

I just need to fly on the main drag. it only makes up about 30% of my run. 30mph now seems sufficient now that i know how fast i'm actually going.

so , to scale it all back, what are my voltage options for 30 MPH.

im at 50v fully charged and can hit 25mph on flat ground.

So 30 mph is what i'm really looking for consistently on flat ground and about 20 MPH uphill.

This speed should sufficiently meet my needs. My current set up has 12 series lipo at 52v fully charged.