Shimano EP8 Motor repair

[PaulD]

Planned obsolescence and poor after sales service really is becoming a pet peeve of mine. Spare parts are rarely available for ebikes, and it's leading to some pretty expensive paperweights in the high end ebike world. I dug into this motor that was out of warranty, for a local shop that said it was making a lot of noise.


It definitely doesn't look like they intended it to be serviceable. I had to de-solder the controller board to access the rotor bearings.

This bearing was crunchy. I'll pull it off, and replace it and hope I didn't damage anything with my big ol desoldering pump.

Despite the issues and the planned obsolescence, it's pretty nice. Nice IPM configuration, very light, potted stator, no hall sensors, no temp sensor (I assume it has some kind of i2t algorithm)

Some globs of glue on the back of the rotor.

 

[UKJ]

Hi, did you have any problems after rebuilding the motor and putting it back in the bike? I'm getting E01050 error. Thanks

 

[PaulD]

Hi, did you have any problems after rebuilding the motor and putting it back in the bike? I'm getting E01050 error. Thanks

It looks like that is a torque sensor error. The torque sensor and it's cable definitely seem like the easiest bits to damage during disassembly and re-assembly.
I haven't heard anything from the shop that I did the work for, so I assume all is well. I'll check in with them.

 

[biker.alej]

It looks like that is a torque sensor error. The torque sensor and it's cable definitely seem like the easiest bits to damage during disassembly and re-assembly.
I haven't heard anything from the shop that I did the work for, so I assume all is well. I'll check in with them.

Hello, what's happened? Everything is running well? Thanks

 

[Chalo]

Planned obsolescence and poor after sales service really is becoming a pet peeve of mine. Spare parts are rarely available for ebikes, and it's leading to some pretty expensive paperweights in the high end ebike world.

If you listen to what they're telling you, you'll know that those things are traps for the foolish to buy, and in some cases for the elite foolish to waste their time trying to fix.

Recycle. Warn others.

 

[PaulD]

Hello, what's happened? Everything is running well? Thanks

The shop says it still hasn't been installed. I assume the customer got a replacement motor. I might try to grab it and find a bike to test it on.

If you listen to what they're telling you, you'll know that those things are traps for the foolish to buy, and in some cases for the elite foolish to waste their time trying to fix.

Some of these drives have relatively easy issues that are well worth fixing, others not so much. Maybe its my elite foolishness, but I think they are worth the time to save them from being a waste. Maybe someone more elite (and less foolish, maybe?) will have the skill and time to sniff the comm messages and develop open source drop-in replacement bits. Just such a project is underway to rescue Faraday ebikes with dead batteries. I'll post about that in the near future.
As much as you and I and others dislike OE proprietary systems, there are a ton of them out there, and people will keep buying them. We can complain all we want, but they are more reliable than most DIY systems, and I think with some effort, we can help make them more repairable and not end up in the landfill.

 

[Chalo]

As much as you and I and others dislike OE proprietary systems, there are a ton of them out there, and people will keep buying them. We can complain all we want, but they are more reliable than most DIY systems, and I think with some effort, we can help make them more repairable and not end up in the landfill.

How much is your time worth? Mine is worth more than the value of a wretched bike that was designed to resist being fixed from day one.

Because I work at a community bike shop, I have some oversight to help determine whether my time is being profitably used. So far, cheap and generic e-bikes are profitable, maybe and maybe not as much as ordinary pedal bikes. But brand name, closed system e-bikes are a resource loss so far. They spent extra design and tech making those bikes so that they wouldn't be fixable going forward. That's not only enough justification to warn people against buying such e-bikes-- it's enough to advise against buying any bikes from those brands of mercenary scum.

 

[marty]

How much is your time worth?

If you spend 100 hours fixing a $100 motor. That works out to $1 a hour. It's not about money. It's about the satisfaction from fixing something.

Now I got to figure out what to do to get money to buy food.

 

[PaulD]

How much is your time worth? Mine is worth more than the value of a wretched bike that was designed to resist being fixed from day one.

Because I work at a community bike shop, I have some oversight to help determine whether my time is being profitably used. So far, cheap and generic e-bikes are profitable, maybe and maybe not as much as ordinary pedal bikes. But brand name, closed system e-bikes are a resource loss so far. They spent extra design and tech making those bikes so that they wouldn't be fixable going forward. That's not only enough justification to warn people against buying such e-bikes-- it's enough to advise against buying any bikes from those brands of mercenary scum.

I think part of me likes the challenge. Despite their lack of serviceability, these systems generally work better and are (usually) safer and more reliable. My goal with developing a mid-drive kit was attempting to bridge that gap.

Also, normie customers like buying from a company that they have heard of and will likely be still in business next week.
In a sad kind of way, the DIY movement seems to be failing at convincing customers that they should learn enough to be able to work on their bike. Most people just don't have the time or interest. They want to be able to drop it off at the bike shop for them to just plop a replacement unit in.

Most of the bike shops around here will not touch DIY builds, or even cheap generic stuff like Rad or Lectric. They don't have the knowledge beyond just replacing basic parts. And customers are more willing to drop hundreds of dollars on repair if their bike cost $10k, not $1K.

I'm not saying that you should stop advising people to avoid closed system bikes, just that it won't work... that's why I want to engineer solutions. I find things easier to fix than people and culture.