small 3,2Ah Konion pack for short trips?

[Pedalex]

hi!
at the moment i´m using two 8,25 Ah 48V packs of Sony Konion 20C cells parallel - so round 800wh to have fun (puma v3 on Schwalbe Super Moto tires does 57km/h no pedaling and 65 when i pedal hard)
i have 5 Bikes now and the backpack solution turned out to be best as i had to take the battery out to charge anyway.
about 7kg incl. the backpack

now i ´ve ordered a small 3,2 Ah Konion pack. only 1,1 kg and 12x7x7 cm to fit in a small saddlebag for short trips in town but i´m not sure how many cycles it will survive when i drag ~10C 34A on the stronger bikes or if i should only use it on the 20A bikes - or is even that too much? don´t know how many Ah i can get out of the 3,2 pack at 10C.... :?

 

[skeetab5780]

im not sure if my math is correct because im used to inches not centimeters but that pack is only 32 cells of Konions in a 16S2P configuration? for a 48v setup?

and are they the V or VT konions they must be the 1.5- 1.8ah cells?

im pretty sure that small of a pack will end up giving you poor results and will probably get warm fast from the attempt of drawing 34a constant. i dont have any proof or figures, but i just built a 40cell konion pack in a 10s4p configuration and used it on a 17amp 36v controller and it wasnt amazing..it had a top speed of 17mph and lasted approx. 5 miles no pedaling. So 2 less cells in series would probably give you 4-6 miles of assist with pedaling.

you would be better off pulling under 20a from that small of a pack, and pedaling during start-ups

and when you say "ordered" is there a company your purchasing pre-built konion packs from?

 

[Pedalex]

im not sure if my math is correct because im used to inches not centimeters but that pack is only 32 cells of Konions in a 16S2P configuration? for a 48v setup?

and when you say "ordered" is there a company your purchasing pre-built konion packs from?

hi!
should be 13s2p
1,6Ah VT cells and i get them from a small one man shop in germany. he offers 6,4Ah 9,6Ah 12,8Ah 16Ah and 19,2 Ah packs but he builds you whatever size you want. he also sells single cells but i´m not good in soldering and welding so i´m happy to have someone else doing that

 

[neptronix]

Those cells are 10C aren't they? that kind of load will not be kind to them.

Even my 20C lipos on a 9C load did not fare well. 2-3v voltage sag and they remained warm for like an hour afterwards.

Another thing to note is that most batteries are rated for their cycle life at 1C. Anything beyond that is going to reduce their cycle life notably, though i don't know how much.

 

[dogman dan]

Best bet for a tiny pack might be some lipo. 5 ah of nanos or something.

Be interesting to see how the little konion pack does though. But not on the high amp bikes.

5 bikes? Hey you have a tie with me. I only have five actually in one piece and running, and only two motors laying around.

 

[John in CR]

Sounds like a saggy and quickly dead pack to me. Also, unless there's a new and improved cell out, which may be possible since I think the Euro Bosch packs are 3ah, then the 2p for 3ah or 3.2ah is the V cells. Abuse them at your peril.

 

[dogman dan]

Yeah, depends on how he rides, what the controller amps is, etc. That's why I thought it would be interesting to have him sacrifice some and report.

But it's not the tiny gearmotor, it's a puma. So early death is a fairly sure bet. 12s 5 ah nano's would be good.

 

[pwbset]

now i ´ve ordered a small 3,2 Ah Konion pack

A couple summers ago I rode around town on a single Bosch 36v fatpack duct taped to my frame that could easily put out 1kw+ and powered a 504 motor. Only good for a couple miles and didn't last long, but at the time those cost $40 so I didn't care.

 

[docnjoj]

Hey pwbset! Welcome back! New Fatpacks are $100 now. Still great cells but not a great value.
otherDoc

 

[Pedalex]

it´s not here yet. usually takes 3 to 4 weeks. i found a controller with a switch to choose between 17 and 8.5 A. i thinks it´s worth trying but it would be nicer to have one to switch between 30 and 15 A. any ideas where i could find something like that?

 

[dogman dan]

I would think that 8 amps wouldn't be much more than the drills draw, when driving a 3" screw. So that should work for awhile.

Hard to beat lipo for the short run bike though. 12s 5 ah is a nice way to go for me, for a short run to the flea 4 miles round trip. On my beach cruiser, adding a 3.5 pound pack is pretty hard to notice. Perfect also, for a skinny tire road bike with a tiny gearmotor.

 

[Takemehome]

it´s not here yet. usually takes 3 to 4 weeks. i found a controller with a switch to choose between 17 and 8.5 A. i thinks it´s worth trying but it would be nicer to have one to switch between 30 and 15 A. any ideas where i could find something like that?

Infineon controller
You can program it with 3 speeds ( from 120% to 30% )
And many things to program.
Check the thread on the Infineon.

 

[neptronix]

The speeds on the infineon do not control the amperage, they control the voltage, thus reducing the speed.

 

[neptronix]

A couple summers ago I rode around town on a single Bosch 36v fatpack duct taped to my frame that could easily put out 1kw+ and powered a 504 motor. Only good for a couple miles and didn't last long, but at the time those cost $40 so I didn't care.

Yeah, good way to ruin a Battery; run it at ~2.5 times it's rated amperage / C..

Not recommended at all. For any battery to last, you need to run it under it's ratings.

 

[Takemehome]

The speeds on the infineon do not control the amperage, they control the voltage, thus reducing the speed.

Well, your controller must be different from mine to pull the same Amps at 50% speed.
At 100%, I pull 30 Amps. full throttle.
At 50%, I pull 15 Amps. full throttle.

 

[neptronix]

The speeds on the infineon do not control the amperage, they control the voltage, thus reducing the speed.

Well, your controller must be different from mine to pull the same Amps at 50% speed.
At 100%, I pull 30 Amps. full throttle.
At 50%, I pull 15 Amps. full throttle.

That's because your 50% speed setting sets the throttle to 50% maximum, and your controller converts your higher voltage into a half voltage, thus using half the amps.

What's going into your motor would be 18v and 30 amps for example, but what's coming into your controller would be 36v and ~15 amps.

If you have ever barely nudged your throttle, you'd know that it will draw near peak amps until it gets up to the speed you are requesting. The throttle doesn't control amps, it controls volts and lower amps at crusing are a result of that conversion.

It acts like a DC-DC converter, as in one that you run your lights off of, or something like a RC battery charger. The amps vary on both sides. The watts are roughly equal ( always incurring some sort of loss )

Does that make sense?

 

[Pedalex]

still waiting for the small pack ... but i already got a waterproof saddlebag to put it in. and it´s the same colour and style as my 16,5Ah backpack (on the left)