thechidz
10 µW
The bike looks so great but how long can they possibly maintain that price point and stay in in business? I would buy one for $3k
stealth bomber prices?
- Thread starter thechidz
- Start date
Ypedal
100 TW
it's a combination of the cost from the components, battery, and motor/controller that makes it be in that price range... you could use a set of suntour forks, avid5 mech disk brakes, a geared BMC ( witch would not last off-road for very long, etc..) and end up with a product retail 3K but it would not be the " Bomber " that it currently is... by a long shot.
( edit to fix typo )
( edit to fix typo )
Drunkskunk
100 GW
Considering the cost of the parts, and ignoring the labor that goes into a hand built bike, $3k isn't going to even come close to covering it.
50yearoldebiker
10 W
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2012
- Messages
- 96
Optibike, Grace, Stromer's new high end bike competes to name a couple off the top of my head 
miro13car
100 kW
what extraordinary motor/controller Bomber use for the price they charge ?
correct me if I am wrong but if it does not use China brand motor and controller so what it uses?
components are separate matter, for the price buyer wants to know exactely what are origins of electric drive.
correct me if I am wrong but if it does not use China brand motor and controller so what it uses?
components are separate matter, for the price buyer wants to know exactely what are origins of electric drive.
Trackman417
10 kW
You are just looking at the price tag and branding it as unnacceptable.
The bomber uses a motor that costs around $500. Plus a $200 crystalyte controller. Right there that is $700 just for the power train. The frame is hand made in THEIR own shop. Fabrication isn't cheap. Idk the specifications on the battery but I believe it is 72 volts and 15aH? Someone please correct me if I am wrong. Stealth also uses top of the line components. The rst-r1 forks alone are probably $6-700? You have some heavy duty disc brakes again, expensive stuff. Keep in mind, these prices are for happy numbers.
And for the icing on the cake, they have a 1 year warranty on the bike and a lifetime warranty on the frame. It's not like you pay $10K for a bike with absolutely no warranty. Not to mention it looks cool 8) .
The bomber uses a motor that costs around $500. Plus a $200 crystalyte controller. Right there that is $700 just for the power train. The frame is hand made in THEIR own shop. Fabrication isn't cheap. Idk the specifications on the battery but I believe it is 72 volts and 15aH? Someone please correct me if I am wrong. Stealth also uses top of the line components. The rst-r1 forks alone are probably $6-700? You have some heavy duty disc brakes again, expensive stuff. Keep in mind, these prices are for happy numbers.
And for the icing on the cake, they have a 1 year warranty on the bike and a lifetime warranty on the frame. It's not like you pay $10K for a bike with absolutely no warranty. Not to mention it looks cool 8) .
Kepler
10 MW
Close but not quite
The pack is an 18ah LiFePO4 24S. 87.6V hot off the charger custom built to Stealth's specifications. Rated at 1.5kW hour and of course complete with a built in BMS. Over $2,000 just for the battery.Spot on Trackman
Once the cost of parts, labour, warranty, and of course margin are all taken into account, it then becomes understandable why the bike cost what it costs.thechidz, although most would agree the bike is not a cheap option, I would suggest the business model is working just fine with sales continuing to grow worldwide. 8) Not bad for a small Aussie company.
Samd
10 MW
Compared to the cost of a carbon fibre downhill bike, they are a bargain as pointed out above. And they'll get you uphill too.
That doesn't mean they are affordable for everyone. But it does make them great value.
There's countless hours of R&D to get to a point of proper reliability. Gear ratios that mean you can pedal at speed. Heat management. Cost of inventory of parts and materials.
Then there's the cost of reverse logistics in the future and repair for faults or misuse at the hands of customers.
Then there's the cost of insurance/risk of legal liability for a handmade frame versus an ebay vendor that can just disappear.
Then there is their cost of wages, trade shows and overheads.
They are good value if you understand the difference between price and cost.
That doesn't mean they are affordable for everyone. But it does make them great value.
There's countless hours of R&D to get to a point of proper reliability. Gear ratios that mean you can pedal at speed. Heat management. Cost of inventory of parts and materials.
Then there's the cost of reverse logistics in the future and repair for faults or misuse at the hands of customers.
Then there's the cost of insurance/risk of legal liability for a handmade frame versus an ebay vendor that can just disappear.
Then there is their cost of wages, trade shows and overheads.
They are good value if you understand the difference between price and cost.
dogman dan
1 PW
Yep. Even basic bolt on stuff on the bomber is pretty quality stuff. It's not a zoom fork on that thing.
My own home built imitation of the stealth fighter wasn't that cheap, and would be worse if the stuff I added hadn't been bought used. In parenthesis I'll list new price on some of the parts bought used.
Starting point was a $75 ($300) bike, a mongoose blackcomb.
Added or replaced.
Motor, $230
Controller $150
Battery and wiring $560
Crankset $40 ($100)
Rrear shock $50 ($150)
Front forks $50 ($250)
Cycleanalyst $130
Tires and tubes $150
Brake disks $30
Seat $25
Battery box materials $40
Total $1455, and that's for a bike that is still a joke when it comes to quality of frame and suspension components. And would have cost even more with new suspension parts. If the bike had been new, 2k for it.
My own home built imitation of the stealth fighter wasn't that cheap, and would be worse if the stuff I added hadn't been bought used. In parenthesis I'll list new price on some of the parts bought used.
Starting point was a $75 ($300) bike, a mongoose blackcomb.
Added or replaced.
Motor, $230
Controller $150
Battery and wiring $560
Crankset $40 ($100)
Rrear shock $50 ($150)
Front forks $50 ($250)
Cycleanalyst $130
Tires and tubes $150
Brake disks $30
Seat $25
Battery box materials $40
Total $1455, and that's for a bike that is still a joke when it comes to quality of frame and suspension components. And would have cost even more with new suspension parts. If the bike had been new, 2k for it.
Rollodo
1 kW
As I look at the price and take into account Samd's and other comments on what's happening behind the scenes and what's associated with building a bike like this, something more comes to mind, which is indirectly connected to the cost as well - the commute. It's connected indirectly because there are certain things one cannot quantify.
Let's talk finances. Currently, I use mostly public transportation to get to work, school and back home. It costs me financially $110 for a MetroCard. But let's look closer - time-wise, I'm 11 miles away from work, it takes me 1:30 hours to get there; it costs me more in terms of time spent on waiting for the bus/train, time spent on the train itself, being late due to very possible (and always ongoing) construction, the discomfort of being in a crowded train with poor AC (I'm a bit heavy myself, very hard to find seats, plus I have a somewhat heavy backpack, even less comfortable). With the upcoming summer heat, I cannot say things will improve in that department. My 1000W MAC motor got me to work in 40-45 minutes (roughly a half), I can imagine what the Bomber might do.
Speaking of weather, I read somewhere Stealth makes their bikes water resistant? If that's true, again, can't put a dollar on this, makes even more sense to own one and ride it every single day. I tried riding in foggy conditions once with that bare battery, controller and motor harness - I will not do it again, ever. Aside from having already spent close to $500 on tools required for a DIY ebike, my bike still isn't weather-proof, so even if it were complete, I still couldn't ride every day. Riding it every day only makes it that much more of a solid investment.
If I bought a new Bomber at its current price point (which I'm actually considering, plus it may be possible to find it cheaper) and keep it for at least 5 years (doable), it'll cost me $10000/60 months = $166 per month. So it looks as if though I'm spending more money onto the bike, but considering the factors outlined above, It may not be an accurate assertion. Plus, there is, of course, this "coolness" factor, no matter how objective I always try to be.
Remember, one does not simply look at the price tag of an electric bike.
Let's talk finances. Currently, I use mostly public transportation to get to work, school and back home. It costs me financially $110 for a MetroCard. But let's look closer - time-wise, I'm 11 miles away from work, it takes me 1:30 hours to get there; it costs me more in terms of time spent on waiting for the bus/train, time spent on the train itself, being late due to very possible (and always ongoing) construction, the discomfort of being in a crowded train with poor AC (I'm a bit heavy myself, very hard to find seats, plus I have a somewhat heavy backpack, even less comfortable). With the upcoming summer heat, I cannot say things will improve in that department. My 1000W MAC motor got me to work in 40-45 minutes (roughly a half), I can imagine what the Bomber might do.
Speaking of weather, I read somewhere Stealth makes their bikes water resistant? If that's true, again, can't put a dollar on this, makes even more sense to own one and ride it every single day. I tried riding in foggy conditions once with that bare battery, controller and motor harness - I will not do it again, ever. Aside from having already spent close to $500 on tools required for a DIY ebike, my bike still isn't weather-proof, so even if it were complete, I still couldn't ride every day. Riding it every day only makes it that much more of a solid investment.
If I bought a new Bomber at its current price point (which I'm actually considering, plus it may be possible to find it cheaper) and keep it for at least 5 years (doable), it'll cost me $10000/60 months = $166 per month. So it looks as if though I'm spending more money onto the bike, but considering the factors outlined above, It may not be an accurate assertion. Plus, there is, of course, this "coolness" factor, no matter how objective I always try to be.
Remember, one does not simply look at the price tag of an electric bike.
Tommy L
100 kW
Drunkskunk said:
May I asked (minus your labour) how much you have in your build? 4138 isn't cheap either.
Another builder here is building a Phasor/Stealth style build with Aluminium. Although I
could design and Tig up some Aluminium, It should go through a HeatTreat process, so
it will be less prone to cracks. I know there are different tensile strengths of aluminium,
so maybe T6 6061 doesn't need to be oven baked? Not sure. Anyone know?
I have a Catrike 700 Aluminium frame. The Catrike company heat treats after fabrication.
At around 4:20 of this video, the manufacturer places the Aluminium frame in an Oven overnight
to artificially age the aluminium frame.
But watch the whole video, very interesting
Tommy L sends....
[youtube]GpCaTeSNAsI[/youtube]
docnjoj
1 GW
That gearbox that Stealth uses is close to $1000 from Germany. You cannot get that quality without spending the money. It ain't gunna happen. There is a E=S member from there that rebuilds those gearboxes and it take real skill and even genius. Luckily they don't seem to break very often.
otherDoc
otherDoc
Tommy L
100 kW
docnjoj said:
OMG that's right! The Stealth has the Schlumpf drive on it.
Tommy L sends....
http://www.utahtrikes.com/ARTICLE-33.html
spinningmagnets
100 TW
I'm afraid I have to side with Stealth on this one. I haven't heard of any warrantee nightmares, so...either they are making an incredibly reliable product (with a user profile that intentionally beats on the product), or...warrantee claims are fixed rapidly and to the customers satisfaction.
Either way, they are charging what the market will bear. If the price is incredibly "out of line", all YOU have to do is make a competing product and sell it for 20% less, and the world will beat a path to your door demanding that you "take their money!".
I think Ferraris are outrageously priced, but if a lot of people are willing to pay that price to have a Ferrari, why should they lower the price?
In this age of water-jetting, laser-cutting, and 3D printing (I recently got some parts in the mail that I drew , they cut and mailed them to me, it's magic!), so...stop complaining and MAKE the next Bomber (and please, make it a non-hub with 3 motor-gears).
Either way, they are charging what the market will bear. If the price is incredibly "out of line", all YOU have to do is make a competing product and sell it for 20% less, and the world will beat a path to your door demanding that you "take their money!".
I think Ferraris are outrageously priced, but if a lot of people are willing to pay that price to have a Ferrari, why should they lower the price?
In this age of water-jetting, laser-cutting, and 3D printing (I recently got some parts in the mail that I drew , they cut and mailed them to me, it's magic!), so...stop complaining and MAKE the next Bomber (and please, make it a non-hub with 3 motor-gears).
Tommy L
100 kW
spinningmagnets said:
If I could have it my way, and have the world revolve around me for a moment, I'll be the guy to do it! :wink:
Tommy L sends....
Drunkskunk
100 GW
The fighter has the schlumph, but the bomber has a Vboxx. A fully intagrated 9 speed crank transmission. Last price I saw on one I think was something like $2500 to the OEM, and not even sold retail.
To answer Tommy's question, I think I have more than $7000 in my bike now. Probably more. I don't realy want to know at this point, but it's been worth it.
To answer Tommy's question, I think I have more than $7000 in my bike now. Probably more. I don't realy want to know at this point, but it's been worth it.
spinningmagnets
100 TW
Hubs are quieter, eerily quiet with a sine-wave (I'm told). Non-hubs have better power potential, run cooler, and with gears they can keep the RPMs up while the bike crawls slowly up a steep incline. To each his own favorite...
Drunkskunks red bike
http://www.electricbike.com/drunkskunk-fat-bike/
Drunkskunks red bike
http://www.electricbike.com/drunkskunk-fat-bike/
Tommy L
100 kW
Drunkskunk said:
Thank you "G"!
There is the $1,000-2000 ebikes, then it's pull out the wallet time for anything better.
Just like commuter cars compared to sports cars. 20-30k for regular car or 3x more for the
sports car. So there is a reason that the Stealth has it's price tag. You can't get something for
nothing.
I have to ask you, how does it handle with the batteries in the frame? Worth the effort?
Tommy L sends.....
I must say I thought just like the original poster when I saw the stealth for 3k originally. I thought it would worth to me 3K and was not sure how they could charge so much for the bike.
But now when I know a lot more and what the parts cost I can totally see how the stealth bomber is so expensive. I also know how time consuming it is to do anything on my ebike, like how I put in lots of hours building my battery system. If you also read the "phasor bike" thread you will see how much people are paying to custom build their own stealth bombers. Paying up to 7K for all the parts. This 7k does not include their labor.
I went from thinking the stealth was a total rip off to actually thinking about buying one. I realized this would be a better option than buying a downhill bike and modifying it.
One thing I can not stand is I do heavy off road use and everything vibrates loose. I always have this feeling that my bike components are not secured properly even though I made a million upgrades on this.
The stealth really takes care of everything, I even know the reason they used that expensive chain system because they wanted to do away with annoying chain problems.
So in the end the stealth may not be as bad of a deal as I originally thought and it may be the way to go. This is especially true because I think the stealth bomber has a very good resale value. Resale value is very important because I have bought many things and used them for years and was able to resell them for more then I paid, including all my motorcycles I ever owned.
So its like this, you can put a few thousand easily into a self build downhill ebike, it will never be as solid as a stealth, the batteries will never be secured as well and it will have almost no resale value in the end. Plus spend hundreds of your hours dealing with issues which you can never totally solve due to modifying a bike that was never designed to be an ebike. Or you can buy a stealth for say 10K dollars, use it for a few years and resell it for 7K or 8K, and you had a great bike and spent even less money in the end.
Honestly, I think the the stealth buyers are getting the best deal out of anybody because what I said before. They do not have to deal with modifying a bicycle frame and all the problems that come with it. They get to drive around a beast of a bike that looks cool and gets all the attention. They belong to their stealth club to get all the ideas and modifications to make them even better. The stealth is reliable and handles probably greater then anything you will self build. They get all these perks and when they go to resell it they have people fighting over to buy it.
This is why I am going the "phasor" or stealth route for my next build and I am done messing around with bicycle frames.
The best quote and he said it well was from
http://www.electricbike.com/phasor/
But now when I know a lot more and what the parts cost I can totally see how the stealth bomber is so expensive. I also know how time consuming it is to do anything on my ebike, like how I put in lots of hours building my battery system. If you also read the "phasor bike" thread you will see how much people are paying to custom build their own stealth bombers. Paying up to 7K for all the parts. This 7k does not include their labor.
I went from thinking the stealth was a total rip off to actually thinking about buying one. I realized this would be a better option than buying a downhill bike and modifying it.
One thing I can not stand is I do heavy off road use and everything vibrates loose. I always have this feeling that my bike components are not secured properly even though I made a million upgrades on this.
The stealth really takes care of everything, I even know the reason they used that expensive chain system because they wanted to do away with annoying chain problems.
So in the end the stealth may not be as bad of a deal as I originally thought and it may be the way to go. This is especially true because I think the stealth bomber has a very good resale value. Resale value is very important because I have bought many things and used them for years and was able to resell them for more then I paid, including all my motorcycles I ever owned.
So its like this, you can put a few thousand easily into a self build downhill ebike, it will never be as solid as a stealth, the batteries will never be secured as well and it will have almost no resale value in the end. Plus spend hundreds of your hours dealing with issues which you can never totally solve due to modifying a bike that was never designed to be an ebike. Or you can buy a stealth for say 10K dollars, use it for a few years and resell it for 7K or 8K, and you had a great bike and spent even less money in the end.
Honestly, I think the the stealth buyers are getting the best deal out of anybody because what I said before. They do not have to deal with modifying a bicycle frame and all the problems that come with it. They get to drive around a beast of a bike that looks cool and gets all the attention. They belong to their stealth club to get all the ideas and modifications to make them even better. The stealth is reliable and handles probably greater then anything you will self build. They get all these perks and when they go to resell it they have people fighting over to buy it.
This is why I am going the "phasor" or stealth route for my next build and I am done messing around with bicycle frames.
The best quote and he said it well was from
http://www.electricbike.com/phasor/
Jason27
10 kW
They build a real cool looking bike but Stealth is probably not profitable and burning through their investment startup capital.
Rollodo
1 kW
EdwardNY said:
I've applied the bold font above and otherwise emphasized what I completely agree with. Well constructed and thought-out opinions like this can add a significant value to a product's page and sell it. The hundreds of hours piece is something I am currently experiencing, and therefore agree with wholeheartedly. It's very similar to the tools you use for any home improvement job. Something that I've learned over the years is that you never use a tool that was not designed for the job in question. You may end up breaking the tool, the appliance, or both.
I'm in NYC as well, and though we may not have the miles-long flats to really enjoy the power of a DD hub, it's primarily the overall experience - which comes from the parts used - that counts.
UPDATE:
EdwardNY said:
I've never heard of this one prior to reading this post, thanks man.
I may consider this as well, as already I have the motor, controller, CA, wheels, fork, only may have to look into a more compact battery option.
Rollodo, you never heard of the phasor? Funny thing is I never heard of it until recently, this week actually, and I have been active on this forum for a while and read a ton of posts. I even wrote about down hill bikes and nobody ever said to get a phasor body instead of a down hill bike.
I am really considering getting the phasor, partly because it can hold a lot more batteries then any of the stealth line of bikes. I just read the entire 46 pages of the E S phasor thread.
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=41682
I was going to buy a downhill bike but thinking about it, why mess around with placing batteries on a downhill frame. You can also get the phasor with 150mm or 160mm dropouts for your cassette to fit and a large hub motor to fit, like the cromotor. You do not have to deal with torque arms and that nonsense.
The phasor seems to be a very good deal. It may be $2,000 for the frame but it will be well worth it I think. Spending a few extra dollars now will go a long way.
Don't get me wrong, I already built a very good full suspension cross country bike, but I am still not happy yet with how secure everything is. For my next bike I am going to do it right and get a frame that is made for ebikes.
I am really considering getting the phasor, partly because it can hold a lot more batteries then any of the stealth line of bikes. I just read the entire 46 pages of the E S phasor thread.
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=41682
I was going to buy a downhill bike but thinking about it, why mess around with placing batteries on a downhill frame. You can also get the phasor with 150mm or 160mm dropouts for your cassette to fit and a large hub motor to fit, like the cromotor. You do not have to deal with torque arms and that nonsense.
The phasor seems to be a very good deal. It may be $2,000 for the frame but it will be well worth it I think. Spending a few extra dollars now will go a long way.
Don't get me wrong, I already built a very good full suspension cross country bike, but I am still not happy yet with how secure everything is. For my next bike I am going to do it right and get a frame that is made for ebikes.
chunder123
1 W
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2013
- Messages
- 57
stealth electric bikes biggest mistake was not using a mid drive motor system. for the weight they are using in a hub motor they could of used the bldc golden motors that are 10kg and 10kw and support 48v to 120v and would climb hills better and better centre of gravity. if anybody is interested the golden motors cells the bldc motors and they are liquid cooled option. what we need is a electric bike frame which has the look of mountain bike frame but with increased strenth to handle to the 10kw mid drive motor motors. carbon fibre would be the best choice for lightness or titanium. the cyclone mid drive system does 30mph easily and makes the stealth bike look poor value for money considering the price and difference in speed
