Titling/registering eBike in USA as a motorcycle/scooter?

neptronix

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Hey there.. just wondering if anyone has ever gone through the process to give an electric bicycle a title & registration so that it can be ran at motorcycle speeds.

I'd like to be able to go 40mph-45mph and not worry about cops. I figure on an adequately beefy DH bike, this would be safe.

I am considering doing it here in Oregon, USA.

Anyone done it?
 
In OR mopeds can do 30 and medium speed vehicles 35 so if you want to be in the 40's you would have to be in the motorcycle class and need a title. In order to get a title you need a VIN number. Your bike would also have to adhere to federal trans and safety guidlines which would mean full lighting, horn, mirrors, DOT approved rims and tires, helmet and so on. Show proof of insurance and have a motorcycle endorsement on your license also. If you want to go that fast you should just get a small motorcycle. It will save you a ton of time and money in the long run.

That said I have heard of a few folks out in the void buying cheap no working moto's with clean titles and fudging the facts on to their bicycles or just converting them to electric outright.
 
http://www.oregon.gov/ODOT/DMV/docs/pocketbikeguide.pdf

30mph on public roads. Not fast enough for public roads IMO. No riding in the bike lane unless you are under human power. That is quite limiting.

mabman said:
Your bike would also have to adhere to federal trans and safety guidlines which would mean full lighting, horn, mirrors, DOT approved rims and tires, helmet and so on. Show proof of insurance and have a motorcycle endorsement on your license also.

DOT approved tires and rims would be a hitch for sure.

The reason i don't want to go full motorcycle is simply because of the weight. I want something that can be carried if need be.
 
el_walto said:
I'd like more info on this also, but for Canada.

I recal a fella on moteredbickes.com trying to get his 49cc bicycle licensed
they were extremely well built looked more like motorcyle than bicyle it wasn't just a huffy with
a motor and lights slapped on either this was a custom built job very professional, long story
short they laughed at him when he took it to be inspected. I would think the same thing would happen
with an e-bike as it wasn't the propulsion that was in question, it was the fact it was still a bicycle. If
you want to get a registered vehicle by a small motorcycle convert it to electric and your done.

KiM
 
AussieJester said:
el_walto said:
I'd like more info on this also, but for Canada.

I recal a fella on moteredbickes.com trying to get his 49cc bicycle licensed
they were extremely well built looked more like motorcyle than bicyle it wasn't just a huffy with
a motor and lights slapped on either this was a custom built job very professional, long story
short they laughed at him when he took it to be inspected. I would think the same thing would happen
with an e-bike as it wasn't the propulsion that was in question, it was the fact it was still a bicycle. If
you want to get a registered vehicle by a small motorcycle convert it to electric and your done.

KiM

Funny thing is that many the people on here are banned from that site, LOL.. must be a different attitude over there..

Can't find that thread but thanks for the heads up.
 
neptronix said:
AussieJester said:
el_walto said:
I'd like more info on this also, but for Canada.

I recal a fella on moteredbickes.com trying to get his 49cc bicycle licensed
they were extremely well built looked more like motorcyle than bicyle it wasn't just a huffy with
a motor and lights slapped on either this was a custom built job very professional, long story
short they laughed at him when he took it to be inspected. I would think the same thing would happen
with an e-bike as it wasn't the propulsion that was in question, it was the fact it was still a bicycle. If
you want to get a registered vehicle by a small motorcycle convert it to electric and your done.

KiM

Funny thing is that many the people on here are banned from that site, LOL.. must be a different attitude over there..

Can't find that thread but thanks for the heads up.


Can say that again LoL..I'm one of the banned too... the other one motorbicycling.com is
going the same way i had 5 posts deleted couple weeks ago because the person i directed the posts at
was a sponsor and it bought questions to his 'testing methods' of engines he was comapring
to the units he sold. But i was assured by the owner Tim and two moderators everyone is treated equally...
was never informed the post were deleted till the last one either, i honestly thought there was a gltich
after the first two disappeared LoL. Still haven't been told why they were against forum rules, just
that it upset the sponsor frock me. Worse stiull mods are deleting posts they feel are incorrect information
heaven forbid someone has a an opinion that differs from theirs :-S Some outstanding
moderating i have to say ROFL.

Endless Sphere has THE best moderators i have seen on a forum thus far
they know how far to let things run before stepping in and do treat all fairly regardless.
Top job to all the saff here...

KiM
 
Yeah, I'm afraid unless you want to fly under the radar, it would appear that a VIN and DOT approval is going to be the price of admission.

Look at what a joke mopeds are, and just think of what it must have took to get them recognized in their own category!

I too thought this would be a possible option in the future, but it's really not.

I suppose the next best thing will be to have a modified version of an enduro off/on road motorcycle.

The quickest to be able to make into what you are looking for that I have seen is one of the FX bikes:

http://www.fxbikes.com/fxfaq.html

poster_wilde_fxbikes_pemberton004sw.jpg


wilde_fxbikes_pemberton022.jpg


They are self-described as a cross-over between DHB and motorcycle, using many DH bike parts like forks, but this may not still help with DOT approval, as these aren't meant for use on road. :?
 
LI-ghtcycle said:
They are self-described as a cross-over between DHB and motorcycle, using many DH bike parts like forks, but this may not still help with DOT approval, as these aren't meant for use on road. :?

Yeah; they are an interesting bicycle. Apparently you can buy them without the engine for a reduced price.

I contacted them. Curious to see if it is anywhere close to being legalized as a motorcycle.. and what the price of it is, sans engine.
 
AussieJester said:
Endless Sphere has THE best moderators i have seen on a forum thus far
they know how far to let things run before stepping in and do treat all fairly regardless.
Top job to all the saff here...

I agree entirely. The best moderation is practically none.
I been censored for retarded things on other boards myself, such as suggesting that people not remove certain emissions equipment from their car as no performance would be gained from doing so.. and pollution would increase.. with plenty of data to back it up.

What i like about ES is that opposing opinions are allowed. If i came on here and got jumped on by a dozen folk, at least i could defend myself until the bitter end.

I think that is the advantage of having a more mature crowd.
 
el_walto said:
I'd like more info on this also, but for Canada.

I tried every trick I know and I have imported and registered a couple of dodgie motorcycles. The only way we can do it in B.C. is to use a registered motorcycle/moped frame and NOT MODIFY the brakes. It is very easy to build a Harley Clone from kit parts and have it inspected, registered and insured. Even a built from scratch hot rod is easy. Bike is impossible under B.C. regs. First you have to have the frame engineered, then the brakes, rims, tires, lights, etc. All signed off and send to the Federal DOT for approval. Heck, ZERO motorcycles took 2 years to get on road approval in Canada. I tried for over a year to figure out how to import and license a Vectrix (which is sold in Canada) and gave up. The importer of record has the type approval and he is telling the DOT all Vectrix in the US are totally different than those he imports into Canada. This is not true. Vectrix do not make a "Canadian Model". They add a relay which turns on the headlight with the key. Mandatory for all vehicles imported into Canada. $25 at Canuk Tire.
So I have imported & registered;
2 Miata's
2 Goldwings
2 GMC motorhomes
1 1999 Dodge Van
1 19' boat motor & trailer
1 C-150 Aircraft from Alaska
No E-bikes, E-scooter, or E-motorcycles.
 
I've actually looked into a similar issue in MD. Not licensing a bike, but licensing a custom built motorcycle, which I imagine would be about the same process anyway.

Assuming your state has procedures in place for this sort of thing, it should be fairly straight-forward. I know at least in MD, all you have to do is pass the standard motorcycle safety inspection, and you get a VIN. What I would do if I were you is get the documentation for the tests they perform in the safety inspection (or any other inspection that OR might require for custom vehicles). I'm pretty sure that by law they have to make it publicly available.

For some idea of what you're in for, this is from the MVA website:
How do I title a homemade motorcycle?

A “homemade” motorcycle is a motorcycle that is assembled from new and/or used parts by someone other than a licensed manufacturer.

You can apply for a title in person at the Glen Burnie branch office. Typically, you will need to submit the following documents:

---* Proof of ownership – Proof of ownership is required for the frame, engine and transmission used in building the motorcycle:
------o If the frame, engine and/or transmission is new, the manufacturer's certificate of origin is required.
------o If the frame is from a used vehicle, a title for the vehicle in your name or a title that has been properly assigned to you is required.
------o If the frame is from a salvaged vehicle, a salvage certificate in your name or a certificate that has been properly assigned to you is required.
------o Other documents that may establish ownership are:
------------+ Registration document and bill of sale – ONLY if the state from which the frame was obtained did not issue a title (usually because of the vehicle’s age).
---* Application – You may use either the back of the Maryland title or the Application for Certificate of Title to request the new title (and registration, if applicable). When the Maryland title is used as the application form, complete the section entitled Application for Title and Registration.
---* Proof of purchase price – You must submit the bills of sale and/or receipts for all parts and labor. The MVA may require that your proof of purchase documents be notarized.
---* Odometer disclosure statement - You may use the manufacturer’s certificate of origin or the title to document the mileage of the vehicle. A separate odometer disclosure statement may also be submitted.
---* Application for Assigned Vehicle Identification Number (if applicable) - A new vehicle identification number (VIN) may be assigned to the completed motorcycle. The Maryland State Police will install the new VIN plate after they have inspected it.
---* Motorcycle Equipment Certification - You must certify that the motor has a rating of more than 1.5 brake horsepower and a motor capacity of at least 49cc.
---* Maryland safety inspection certificate - A safety inspection is required if the vehicle is being registered at the same time (most cases).

Your title will be mailed to you. If you also register the vehicle (most cases), your registration card, license plates and expiration date stickers can be provided immediately when you apply in person to the MVA; otherwise, these items also will be mailed to you.

And, the vehicle systems to be inspected on a motorcycle:
• Steering system
• Frame
• Brake system
• Wheels / tires
• Fuel system
• Exhaust system
• Lights
• Electrical system
• Mirrors
• Windshield
• Passenger items (hand hold and foot rest)
• Body items (seat, engine mounts, stand, chain and guard, fenders)
• Speedometer / odometer


So, yeah, like others have mentioned, you'll probably have to have DOT approved wheels and tires, definitely DOT approved lights, and the frame probably has to meet certain strength and design criteria. I haven't gotten around to requesting the appropriate form that would tell me all the details yet (not available online..at least, I can't find it), so idk the details of what you might want to expect, but when I do I'll post it somewhere on here. I imagine they would also want you to have taken certain precautions with the wiring of your power system. Stuff like protection against water, protection in case of a crash, etc.
 
x88x said:
I've actually looked into a similar issue in MD. Not licensing a bike, but licensing a custom built motorcycle, which I imagine would be about the same process anyway.

No, registering a bike is a totally different process. There are easily followed rules for a custom built motorcycle. There are no rules for a bike. When there are no rules, you may find the clerk you are speaking with can not help you. Please go try it and report back.
 
Gordo said:
No, registering a bike is a totally different process. There are easily followed rules for a custom built motorcycle. There are no rules for a bike. When there are no rules, you may find the clerk you are speaking with can not help you. Please go try it and report back.
Of course there are no rules for registering a bike. As you are aware, outside certain locales, bikes do not have to be registered in the US, so obviously there are no rules or criteria for doing so. There are also no benefits to doing so (even if you could somehow make up some process to do so), for the same reason. Fortunately, that is not what he is saying he wants to do. Neither is that what I was talking about. My point was that since he is trying to register a bike as a motorcycle (not as a bike), that if he follows the same rules that a custom motorcycle has to follow, meets all the requirements that a custom motorcycle has to meet, and presents it as a custom motorcycle to the titling authority, there shouldn't be any problems.
 
I have tried to do this in two ways. 1. Register the "vehicle" in Washington State and then import it into Canada. Not possible.
2. Register it in Canada as a kit. Not possible. The first hurdle is you MUST use an existing titled frame or buy a frame from a registered frame builder such as Arlin Ness. Then there is the issue of brakes, wheels, tires, etc. There is a very good reason for registering an e-bike and that is for liability and medical insurance. Even if you are stopped on a sidewalk or bike path, when a pedal bike runs into you, if your e-bike is illegal, you have a big legal liability problem. I've decided to stay off the bike paths for this reason. I believe my odds are better on the road.
 
Gordo said:
The first hurdle is you MUST use an existing titled frame or buy a frame from a registered frame builder such as Arlin Ness.
Fortunately, this is not the case in all US states.
 
x88x said:
Gordo said:
The first hurdle is you MUST use an existing titled frame or buy a frame from a registered frame builder such as Arlin Ness.
Fortunately, this is not the case in all US states.

I have re-read this entire thread very carefully. Almost everyone agrees that "titling/registering an ebike in USA as a motorcycle/scooter" IS IMPOSSIBLE.
Please quit the bullshit and present some documentation to prove it is possible in ANY state in the US? List the bike frame, wheels, tires, brakes and lights that can be registered?

The good news is I just got a call from a ZERO Motorcycle dealer, who is 40 miles south of me that they have road bikes registered and ready for my test rides.
 
Gordo said:
I have re-read this entire thread very carefully. Almost everyone agrees that "titling/registering an ebike in USA as a motorcycle/scooter" IS IMPOSSIBLE.
No, the consensus is that it would require too much additional work to the vehicle to be reasonably efficient or useful to do so, not that it is impossible. I agree that a normal bicycle frame would probably not pass inspection, neither would normal bicycle wheels or tires. In fact, in the course of modifying the bicycle to meet DOT requirements, most of the parts of the original vehicle would probably be replaced. This is why it would not be reasonably efficient or useful to attempt. In essence, you would be making a small, lightweight, custom motorcycle, with perhaps a few bicycle parts. Whether the end result would be considered an ebike or not is entirely dependent on the opinion of the reader, but I have seen some ebikes around here that might stand a chance of passing inspection in some states with relatively minor modifications (mostly because they have already replaced most of the problematic bike parts with heavier-duty ones). Surely if you read the entire thread, you saw that I never recommended that a stock bicycle would stand any chance of passing inspection. As I mentioned before, I have not acquired the official documents yet, but from my research I am reasonably confident that a custom frame will pass inspection on its own merits in the state of Maryland, not requiring that it be constructed by a registered framebuilder. I am not familiar with the laws concerning this matter in the state of Oregon (where the OP lives), and to be brutally honest, I really don't care. Let someone who lives in OR figure that one out. But then, since you don't even live in the US, I don't really see why you're so bothered about US laws.
 
So now we have come Neptronix asking;
"Hey there.. just wondering if anyone has ever gone through the process to give an electric bicycle a title & registration so that it can be ran at motorcycle speeds. I'd like to be able to go 40mph-45mph and not worry about cops. I figure on an adequately beefy DH bike, this would be safe."

To x88xc:
"I've actually looked into a similar issue in MD. Not licensing a bike, but licensing a custom built motorcycle, which I imagine would be about the same process anyway."

To here;
"My point was that since he is trying to register a bike as a motorcycle (not as a bike), that if he follows the same rules that a custom motorcycle has to follow, meets all the requirements that a custom motorcycle has to meet, and presents it as a custom motorcycle to the titling authority, there shouldn't be any problems."

To here:
"This is why it would not be reasonably efficient or useful to attempt. In essence, you would be making a small, lightweight, custom motorcycle, with perhaps a few bicycle parts. Whether the end result would be considered an ebike or not is entirely dependent on the opinion of the reader, but I have seen some ebikes around here that might stand a chance of passing inspection in some states with relatively minor modifications (mostly because they have already replaced most of the problematic bike parts with heavier-duty ones). Surely if you read the entire thread, you saw that I never recommended that a stock bicycle would stand any chance of passing inspection."

Which besides being totally off topic, of no help whatsoever to Neptronix, is just a continuation of your nonsense. Other than a bell, or a squeeze horn, what part of a bicycle might you suggest could be included on a registered eBike? Google CUMOCO and learn what it took to get a registered, licensed ICE scooter, re-registered as an EV? Years and tens of thousands of $$$.
 
Gordo said:
Which besides being totally off topic, of no help whatsoever to Neptronix, is just a continuation of your nonsense.
Licensing as a motorcycle is the only way I know of that a 2-wheel vehicle can be legally run at 'motorcycle speeds' (ie, above legal moped/etc speeds). The way that a bicycle would be licensed as a motorcycle is by obtaining a VIN as a custom motorcycle (whatever that process might involve in his state). Having actually looked into this process in my state, I presented a rough outline of what he might need to do to accomplish that goal. I never said I thought it would be a particularly good idea, I simply relayed the information that I had found in my searching, so that he would be able to make a more informed decision. ..everything after that has been you complaining about why you thought something I said was wrong.

As for Current Motor Company...you said I was going off topic with something of no use to the OP? :roll: Yes, a commercial venture to make and market complete conversions for sale is much more applicable to someone doing a one-off than information about licensing custom-built vehicles. :roll: Hey, while we're at it, let's just ignore the hundreds if not thousands of people around the world who have completely road legal one-off electric conversions and pretend that licensing one vehicle costs the same as starting a business selling similar vehicles. Yeees, that sounds like a wonderful idea that will make people take us seriously. :roll:
 
It's all state to state down here in the US. Of course, if you live in a really restrictive state then you can try to do what motorcyclists have attempted for years: sell it to your out of state friend/relative so they can get it initially titled it in one state and then have them sell it back to you to register in another. This doesn't always work depending on the state and vehicle. Finally, getting your bike insured might be a hurdle too big to over come. But I don't know as I haven't tried.

But its apparently "relatively" easier to register a home built motorcycle in New Mexico than some of the places mentioned so far in this thread. It appears that you may not need an original VIN if its not a commercial kit vehicle; the MVD can give you one similar to how they VIN homebuilt trailers. Here's the actual check list from the local MVD:
http://www.mvd.newmexico.gov/SiteCollectionDocuments/assets/mvd10053.pdf

I've yet to register a home built vehicle (though I have registered a home built trailer), so I can only vouch for what's on the NM MVD website and in the NM vehicle code. Personally I'm looking at converting my titled/registered/plated 50cc ICE scooter, so I'll have none of these problems.
 
I should amend my last post. One reason it "easier" to register a home built vehicle in NM is because we require no standard safety check to register a vehicle as states like NY do. So here you affirm that you've built it up to specs and the MVD employee may or may not look too closely when they come out to the parking lot to see it. You get the title, but that doesn't mean you're actually legal in every respect. Enforcement is more on the police end. They can pull you over/ticket you for non-DOT compliant stuff (this happened to a friend of mine with a non-DOT compliant headlight on his motorcycle).
 
So where are you from Nuevomexicano?
 
Bueno pues! Finally some more green chile heads! Yeah, I was talking to a golf cart guy in Las Cruces and he said that some people would register their golf carts in Arizona and then transfer them here so they can ride on side streets with them. Don't know if that' exactly how he said it, but it sounds similar to what your saying nuevomexicano. 8)
 
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